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I just bought the Great Unclean One and wanted to use it as a Demon Prince in my new Death Guard army. Do you think people would give me problems using this model as a DP?

They might, unless you convert it up to look like it used to be a Chaos Space Marine. As it is, right now you're using it as a proxy. Most people will be fine with allowing that, but you likely wouldn't be able to use it as a Daemon Prince at a tourney.

It's fine as long as you're clear as to what it is.

Shouldn't be an issue, I think they are roughly the same size so it shouldn't be modeling for advantage (someone who has seen new GUO in person might be able to confirm).

The easiest way to avoid confusion is to model said GUO with what would be an illegal loadout for a GUO, but something that looks correct for a daemon prince. For example, mixing the sword with the empty hand wouldn't work for the GUO (since the empty hand is part of the unique GUO character), but would make sense for a warpsword+talons daemon prince.

This will typically qualify as a conversion rather than counts as for most tournaments. If that's even an issue for you, and assuming the size is roughly the same as I haven't seen the new GUO in person yet.

 Yarium wrote:
They might, unless you convert it up to look like it used to be a Chaos Space Marine. As it is, right now you're using it as a proxy. Most people will be fine with allowing that, but you likely wouldn't be able to use it as a Daemon Prince at a tourney.

Yeah I know it wouldn't be tourney legal but I'm not a tourney player at this point. More just casual gaming at shops. I find that the current DP model doesn't look to much like a CSM except for one option which has the shoulder pads. It definitely doesn't look much like a Nurgle model so that's why I figured the GUO would be a good stand in. Plus its just so dang cool!

For those wondering about the size comparison;

The GUO is around twice the size of a Daemon Prince, I think people would allow it as a stand in for a few games but they may get a bit annoyed if this stand in became permanent: for one it looks nothing like a DP and for two it has a much larger base so people may thinking you're trying to cheat and get a larger re-roll coverage. I wouldn't suggest the GUO as a DP stand in at all.

 mrhappyface wrote:
The GUO is around twice the size of a Daemon Prince, I think people would allow it as a stand in for a few games but they may get a bit annoyed if this stand in became permanent: for one it looks nothing like a DP and for two it has a much larger base so people may thinking you're trying to cheat and get a larger re-roll coverage. I wouldn't suggest the GUO as a DP stand in at all.

In a really casual setting it doesn't matter; you can run anything as anything, but generally, I'd go with this answer.

The new GUO rules are pretty cool anyways!

 znelson wrote:
In a really casual setting it doesn't matter; you can run anything as anything,

Aye, but he was talking about taking this to shops; if that's a FLGS then I doubt he'd get away with it.

As something casual, perhaps. Realistically though they're completely different sizes/scales, so it doesn't make a very good proxy at all.

I took my metal GUO, added Shoulder pads from the DP kit, gave him bloat drone rotors, and now he lives on as a Flying Prince. So that should show my opinion on it.
Even before the new model, I've been running the GUO as a prince model instead.

I do wish I could take a flail weapon on him, but upgrading his blade to Corruption is good enough.

 Yarium wrote:
For those wondering about the size comparison;

That doesn't help at all; both of those are GUO.

The right GUO from Forgeworld.



The original GW Greater Daemons are actually really tiny. Here is a size comparison of Slaanesh stuff.

Original Keeper of Secrets on the left and the FW Keeper of Secrets 2nd from right.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I took my metal GUO, added Shoulder pads from the DP kit, gave him bloat drone rotors, and now he lives on as a Flying Prince. So that should show my opinion on it.
Even before the new model, I've been running the GUO as a prince model instead.

I do wish I could take a flail weapon on him, but upgrading his blade to Corruption is good enough.

That's not really the same as this situation since the old GUO was about the same size as a DP and so would be an acceptable stand in/conversion. The new GUO however is double the size and has a much bigger foot print.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I took my metal GUO, added Shoulder pads from the DP kit, gave him bloat drone rotors, and now he lives on as a Flying Prince. So that should show my opinion on it.
Even before the new model, I've been running the GUO as a prince model instead.

I do wish I could take a flail weapon on him, but upgrading his blade to Corruption is good enough.

That's not really the same as this situation since the old GUO was about the same size as a DP and so would be an acceptable stand in/conversion. The new GUO however is double the size and has a much bigger foot print.

Yea, my bad, misinterpreted the OP. The new GUO is massive.

I usually go with base size being the deciding factor in conversions and counts as.

Yeah, I didn't realize the size increase was that drastic, could be a tough sell.

 mrhappyface wrote:
The GUO is around twice the size of a Daemon Prince, I think people would allow it as a stand in for a few games but they may get a bit annoyed if this stand in became permanent: for one it looks nothing like a DP and for two it has a much larger base so people may thinking you're trying to cheat and get a larger re-roll coverage. I wouldn't suggest the GUO as a DP stand in at all.

I appreciate the advise. Question though since I haven't played since early 7th edition would the larger size of the model not be a detriment to me since I would not be able to get cover saves as well with a larger model? I was thinking they wouldn't mind me using the GUO because of this. I may have missed something in the rules however. I found the 8th edition rulebook frustratingly unclear on certain rules.

 Frontline989 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
The GUO is around twice the size of a Daemon Prince, I think people would allow it as a stand in for a few games but they may get a bit annoyed if this stand in became permanent: for one it looks nothing like a DP and for two it has a much larger base so people may thinking you're trying to cheat and get a larger re-roll coverage. I wouldn't suggest the GUO as a DP stand in at all.

I appreciate the advise. Question though since I haven't played since early 7th edition would the larger size of the model not be a detriment to me since I would not be able to get cover saves as well with a larger model? I was thinking they wouldn't mind me using the GUO because of this. I may have missed something in the rules however. I found the 8th edition rulebook frustratingly unclear on certain rules.

Cover saves are minor compared to the bonus you get from extending your aura abilities out twice as far. A 2" base and 6" aura covers 78 inches squared while a 5" base covers 226 inches squared.

Especially since a DP is not targetable under 10 wounds.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Frontline989 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
The GUO is around twice the size of a Daemon Prince, I think people would allow it as a stand in for a few games but they may get a bit annoyed if this stand in became permanent: for one it looks nothing like a DP and for two it has a much larger base so people may thinking you're trying to cheat and get a larger re-roll coverage. I wouldn't suggest the GUO as a DP stand in at all.

I appreciate the advise. Question though since I haven't played since early 7th edition would the larger size of the model not be a detriment to me since I would not be able to get cover saves as well with a larger model? I was thinking they wouldn't mind me using the GUO because of this. I may have missed something in the rules however. I found the 8th edition rulebook frustratingly unclear on certain rules.

Cover saves are minor compared to the bonus you get from extending your aura abilities out twice as far. A 2" base and 6" aura covers 78 inches squared while a 5" base covers 226 inches squared.

Especially since a DP is not targetable under 10 wounds.

That is an important point I hadn't considered. Well I'll look into purchasing the DP model in the future and make sure my opponent is okay with me using the model before I include him.

Also, on the point of terrain, cover is no longer given for being 50% obscured; you just have to be on or in the terrain to get the +1 to saves. So having a bigger model doesn't even give you any negatives there.

I would definitely not be cool with someone using a GUO as a daemon prince. The base is huge compared to a daemon prince.

Since the release of the new GUO, I've regulated my old GUO to be a daemon prince without wings since it is pretty clearly not appropriate from a size, point, and model standpoint. (Not a big deal, I like the model)

I would use it as a GUO, I've seen similar things done with the ginormous Blood thirster that forge world makes and it just doesn't mesh well. It's too big, it looks silly as a daemon prince, just use it as it's supposed to be used.

 Yarium wrote:
They might, unless you convert it up to look like it used to be a Chaos Space Marine. As it is, right now you're using it as a proxy. Most people will be fine with allowing that, but you likely wouldn't be able to use it as a Daemon Prince at a tourney.

I feel compelled to point out that not all Daemon Princes are Space Marines - there are numerous accounts of normal mortals earning the favor of their Patron Gods and being granted daemon princedom...

In fact, on that note, I'd love to see a cool conversion for a non-sm based DP

 znelson wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
They might, unless you convert it up to look like it used to be a Chaos Space Marine. As it is, right now you're using it as a proxy. Most people will be fine with allowing that, but you likely wouldn't be able to use it as a Daemon Prince at a tourney.

I feel compelled to point out that not all Daemon Princes are Space Marines - there are numerous accounts of normal mortals earning the favor of their Patron Gods and being granted daemon princedom...

In fact, on that note, I'd love to see a cool conversion for a non-sm based DP

So just a DP without the big power armour?

 mrhappyface wrote:
Also, on the point of terrain, cover is no longer given for being 50% obscured; you just have to be on or in the terrain to get the +1 to saves. So having a bigger model doesn't even give you any negatives there.

Derailing the thread slightly, but when did the 50% rule get dumped?

For example with ruins the core rulebook errata still says - "Infantry units that are entirely on or within a ruin receive the bene t of cover. Other units that are entirely on or within a ruin only receive the bene t of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model."

Some of the terrain in Chapter Approved also has the same 50% rule for non infantry units.

Have I missed an update somewhere?

 Uther wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Also, on the point of terrain, cover is no longer given for being 50% obscured; you just have to be on or in the terrain to get the +1 to saves. So having a bigger model doesn't even give you any negatives there.

Derailing the thread slightly, but when did the 50% rule get dumped?

For example with ruins the core rulebook errata still says - "Infantry units that are entirely on or within a ruin receive the bene t of cover. Other units that are entirely on or within a ruin only receive the bene t of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model."

Some of the terrain in Chapter Approved also has the same 50% rule for non infantry units.

Have I missed an update somewhere?

No, more likely I've missed some erratas on terrain.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 znelson wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
They might, unless you convert it up to look like it used to be a Chaos Space Marine. As it is, right now you're using it as a proxy. Most people will be fine with allowing that, but you likely wouldn't be able to use it as a Daemon Prince at a tourney.

I feel compelled to point out that not all Daemon Princes are Space Marines - there are numerous accounts of normal mortals earning the favor of their Patron Gods and being granted daemon princedom...

In fact, on that note, I'd love to see a cool conversion for a non-sm based DP

So just a DP without the big power armour?

I imagine that a Mortal DP would be smaller in general, given the proportional starting sizes of a SM and a normal human

 znelson wrote:
I imagine that a Mortal DP would be smaller in general, given the proportional starting sizes of a SM and a normal human

Not necessarily, Doomrider was a SM and is one of the smallest DP; being basically a SM with a flaming skull. On the other side, Be'lakor was a mortal and is about the same size as most DP.