Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm looking at possibly starting an DKOK army with a heavy infantry focus and I'm just browsing around atm. Looking at Chimeras, it doesn't seem to be worthwhile to stick regular Infantry squads in them, even with DKOK's slight price increase, a standard squad doesn't really seem worth protecting. Vets (Grenadiers) are worth a little bit more, as would be flamer HW squads, but only marginally. Is this a fair assessment?

A barebones 10 man squad comes in at 50ish pts, while a barebones Storm Chimera is 120ish and even a regular IG barebones Chimera is 90ish. Seems it would be a better idea to have 3 infantry squads rather than 1 squad in a Chimera - or 2 Vet/Grenadier squads rather than one in a Chimera. The extra speed would be nice, but a Move order would work just as well to push a squad up the field.

Even with more elite units, 10 humans popping out of a chimera isn't exactly as scary as 10 Korne Berzerkers - who proportionally to their value, pay much less for their wheels.

I could see it being good for capturing objectives and parking a squad on it, but they're unlikely to hold it if any real pressure is applied. Is there some other use that I'm missing, or is it just better to footslog 3 squads and use better fast units for capturing objectives?

You are right. As a rule of thumb, transports are worthwhile if what they transport is about twice as expensive as the barebones transport.

It is also the reason why you don't see many trukk-boyz anymore. You end up paying more for the trukks than for the boyz.

Only if you are lacking deep strike/other fast elements and you KNOW you need to move due to scenario can they be helpful. And even then it's just because you need to. Not because they are actually useful.

That said when I need to move twin flamer one has been surprisingly useful. Albeit we use PL which helps that one.

Either way transports in 8th are less about moving(unless scenario dictates you need to move) and more about protecting contents before they get into position to do something. Also another use you can use them is tag enemies into combat.

Just in terms of transports, I’ve fielded 2 storm lords and units inside and I just drop it on two mid objectives; objective held.

In a DKoK-army with lots of infantry, you're better off without transports, except for elite infantry to capture objectives, and to get behind enemy lines.

You might want to get a Gorgon or Crassus, if they're made available again, as they can carry 50 and 35 troops, at 350 and 200 points.

lliu wrote:
Just in terms of transports, I’ve fielded 2 storm lords and units inside and I just drop it on two mid objectives; objective held.

That is a very poor way of holding objectives though, as only 2 enemy models can take the objective away from you. And no, the baneblade hull is not wide enough to push enemy models 3" away on all sides.

pismakron wrote:

lliu wrote:
Just in terms of transports, I’ve fielded 2 storm lords and units inside and I just drop it on two mid objectives; objective held.

That is a very poor way of holding objectives though, as only 2 enemy models can take the objective away from you. And no, the baneblade hull is not wide enough to push enemy models 3" away on all sides.

I have 40 guardsmen inside split into 4 units of 10 cause dkok.

Their main utility is to keep the unit inside from being shot and, if you're doing objective work, block line of sight to the squad. Move move move is faster, but it's always obvious what you're up to and that squad many times will get shot up unless you send multiple squads. For an infantry list this shouldn't be too hard, but I know in more casual games I run the odd chimera and taurox with vets/SWS/command squads/officers and it can be somewhat helpful. Protects them on tables with poor LOS blocking terrain or if the opponent has stuff like mortars. I will say tauroxes can be very nice to have, it's just who the heck has a bunch of normal tauroxes laying around?

Chimeras can be surprisingly tanky at timed but they're nothing like old editions. You really need to build around them, you can't just plop them into an army and expect everything to be fine.

I have ten chimeras. Welcome to 8th edition.... Mech guard is off meta atm. Blob guard is far superior right now. There is still something to be said for PURE mech, in that with so much higher armor saturation, it can be very hard for certain lists to deal with. Since you can’t shoot plasma guns or melts guns out of chimeras, they basically got screwed. Luckily, guard as a whole is great this edition. Basic guardsmen are super good. Leman russ tanks, hw teams, etc.

I consistently run 2 Chimera and a Taurox full of vets, a lieutenant, and a Commissar Lord with the Sword of Heroes. They're horrifically expensive, but matched up with a few Scion deep strikes it allows the guard to get after far away objectives. With the rules for disembarking being so generous, these squads can throw out a LOT of firepower out to some very respectable distances, and the transports split up the enemy anti tank fire allowing the Russ tanks, Sentinels, and Hellhound more time to live.

Don't get me wrong, Chimeras suck, but they can be useful when you need to project some power or move more than a few inches.

lliu wrote:

pismakron wrote:

lliu wrote:
Just in terms of transports, I’ve fielded 2 storm lords and units inside and I just drop it on two mid objectives; objective held.

That is a very poor way of holding objectives though, as only 2 enemy models can take the objective away from you. And no, the baneblade hull is not wide enough to push enemy models 3" away on all sides.

I have 40 guardsmen inside split into 4 units of 10 cause dkok.

They have to exit to use ObSec.

So he dumps 40 dudes out on turn 5?

xmbk wrote:

lliu wrote:

pismakron wrote:

lliu wrote:
Just in terms of transports, I’ve fielded 2 storm lords and units inside and I just drop it on two mid objectives; objective held.

That is a very poor way of holding objectives though, as only 2 enemy models can take the objective away from you. And no, the baneblade hull is not wide enough to push enemy models 3" away on all sides.

I have 40 guardsmen inside split into 4 units of 10 cause dkok.

They have to exit to use ObSec.

Yup I will dump them out. And no one can take the objective off me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 greatbigtree wrote:
So he dumps 40 dudes out on turn 5?

I normally reach objectives by turn 2 at most.

Your tactical decisions are your own, of course. I was simply referring to the option to dump out on 5th turn, with precious little to oppose you, which would nearly guarantee that you had sufficient models within range to secure the objective. What's going to wipe out 40 guardsmen on turn 5+ ?

 greatbigtree wrote:
Your tactical decisions are your own, of course. I was simply referring to the option to dump out on 5th turn, with precious little to oppose you, which would nearly guarantee that you had sufficient models within range to secure the objective. What's going to wipe out 40 guardsmen on turn 5+ ?

Then what will score the objective in turn 2-4? You might very well be hopelessly behind on VP's by turn 5.

I have five chimeras and two tauroxes (tauroxen?), so I want them to be as good as anyone, but I think I used one chimera once as a LOS blocking experiment. I'd have rather just had another infantry squad or two, but I've always leaned heavy on powerblobs, so take my opinion with some salt.

The taurox is good for the firepower alone, but I don't really transport things in it. The chimera doesn't have enough firepower to keep up with the point cost. Maybe if Veterans were more useful than Stormtroopers, they'd be useful again. GW really missed the mark with Force Org slots for Stormtroopers and Vets. As it stands, there's no reason to transport Stormtroopers and no reason to take Vets.

pismakron wrote:

 greatbigtree wrote:
Your tactical decisions are your own, of course. I was simply referring to the option to dump out on 5th turn, with precious little to oppose you, which would nearly guarantee that you had sufficient models within range to secure the objective. What's going to wipe out 40 guardsmen on turn 5+ ?

Then what will score the objective in turn 2-4? You might very well be hopelessly behind on VP's by turn 5.

Oh, I assumed he was playing a game, and not just being jerked around the board because the card said so. My assumption was based on playing non-ridiculously. Obviously, there's no right or wrong way to game. I was choosing the "most correct" answer.

PS: Minor trolling, err'y body take it easy. Assuming he's on top of the objective on turn 2 or there abouts, he could probably shoot stuff that gets close? That would still let him score Maelstrom points.

 greatbigtree wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 greatbigtree wrote:
Your tactical decisions are your own, of course. I was simply referring to the option to dump out on 5th turn, with precious little to oppose you, which would nearly guarantee that you had sufficient models within range to secure the objective. What's going to wipe out 40 guardsmen on turn 5+ ?

Then what will score the objective in turn 2-4? You might very well be hopelessly behind on VP's by turn 5.

Oh, I assumed he was playing a game, and not just being jerked around the board because the card said so. My assumption was based on playing non-ridiculously. Obviously, there's no right or wrong way to game. I was choosing the "most correct" answer.

PS: Minor trolling, err'y body take it easy. Assuming he's on top of the objective on turn 2 or there abouts, he could probably shoot stuff that gets close? That would still let him score Maelstrom points.

Lol I play a specific way I just dump out on two objectives with heavy artillery in the back doing hurt. Anything that gets close, order the FRFSRF equivalent for Krieger’s and watch as 80 lascannon shots rip into whatever was unfortunate enough to get shot at, plus the two heavy stubbers, the four heavy flamers once they get in range, as well as the two lascannons, and the massive bolt cannon thing on the front. That’s a lot of Dakka.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Bolter is also 60” Heavy 20 S6 Ap-2 D2

Used as transports for DKOK the Chimera is overpriced and there really aren’t any good choices for them.

If you’re willing you could get another detachment like Tallarn (move without the shooting penalty / outflank) or Elysians (drop all over the place).

I like the Gryphon Pattern Chimera as it can take 3 Heavy Bolters, and with Tallarn you can move and still shoot them at your regular BS4, while still protecting whatever’s inside.