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leopard wrote:


2. stuff that makes you hard to hurt, concrete walls, armoured bulkheads etc, which should be a save bonus

Make it actually improve toughness!

 Vankraken wrote:
Scrap 8th and just make a proper 9th edition. 8th is 40k with the nitty gritty details gutted to reduce bloat but the foundation of the game is so weak that piling more complexity onto the 8th system will just start to break the game apart more. Contract some technical writers who understand how to make a functional and extensive game system that can be played in a simplified manner for beginners while also having an in depth rule set for advanced play.

Good idea but it won´t be implemented because the focus is on selling models and on "streamlining" the game. So in the spirit of this fact they should remove the wound chart like in AoS. Now all models will hit & wound on a fixed value which will quicken the gameplay up even more.

ITT- certain individuals confusing the point of the game with the objective. I'm also a bad person for wanting to win the games I play apparently...


Also Rak'Gol as a playable faction.

I would like to see more xenos factions, yes.

 Mr Morden wrote:

As far as i know, Marines exist as a unit since the first game. Mega-zorgs and company only existed in Epic and were brought to 40k only in the last few editions, making 40k an "Epic in 28 mm." Before they were restricted to "Apocalypse games" (that nowadays makes no sense to have, because every 40k game is an Apocalypse one... ), and even before they were only in Epic and didn't exist in 40k proper. Warhammer 40k always has been a more or less skirmish-sized game. So to me it would make sense to have a "size" limitation and allow the bigger monstruosities and vehicles only in the bigger games. I think FW actually does this in their Horus Heresy game, and it is much more reasonable and balanced.

There were rules for big things in Rogue Trader as well as for Marines

I don't think that "big things" really means the same as today. That said, i don't know very much about Rogue trader. I do know that 2nd and RT were much more "skirmish" than 3rd and folowing editions. And definetely there were no rules for super-heavies or airplanes in the main standard rules of 40k. But anyway...

Rogue Trader Codex!

Or at least 3 or 4 pages in an Index! Rogue Trader retinue should be the ultimate HQ of the Imperial Soup faction, as lore-wise they can lead almost any Imperials, including Space Marines.

 Warpspy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

As far as i know, Marines exist as a unit since the first game. Mega-zorgs and company only existed in Epic and were brought to 40k only in the last few editions, making 40k an "Epic in 28 mm." Before they were restricted to "Apocalypse games" (that nowadays makes no sense to have, because every 40k game is an Apocalypse one... ), and even before they were only in Epic and didn't exist in 40k proper. Warhammer 40k always has been a more or less skirmish-sized game. So to me it would make sense to have a "size" limitation and allow the bigger monstruosities and vehicles only in the bigger games. I think FW actually does this in their Horus Heresy game, and it is much more reasonable and balanced.

There were rules for big things in Rogue Trader as well as for Marines

I don't think that "big things" really means the same as today. That said, i don't know very much about Rogue trader. I do know that 2nd and RT were much more "skirmish" than 3rd and folowing editions. And definetely there were no rules for super-heavies or airplanes in the main standard rules of 40k. But anyway...

White Dwarf even called out the fact that all of the big stuff was in the game to start with - on day one in RT

They had rules for 30m long dinosaurs and Catchan devils and Juggernaughts - vehicles that measured 24" on the table or larger and which could carry other vehicles.

I would like to get the fall back/pursue mechanic back:
One unit falls back and the other trys to pursue. They compete by rolling dice and if the pursuing unit rolls higher, the other unit is stuck in combat.

In earlier editions there was also a risk to falling back, but I don't think thats really necessary. Maybe give the unit a -1 to hit in the next combat phase for trying to and failing to fall back.

I would like it if you failed to make your charge the unit being charged can fire overwatch again but hitting on 5s instead.

there should be unit killed markers with power level ratings.
it would be really nice at the end of the game to look over at the field & dissect moves and such.

I think ive got it after all this reading. Lets go back to the 7th edition base rules. All of it. But get rid of the decurion detatchments and formations. I noticed that most formations in 7th were reiterations from the 6th edition apacolypse book so no wonder they were to powerful.

So 7th base rules.

Take the formations and decurions out of the codexes.

Expand the combined arms detatchments with a list of the new detatchments.

Forgo stratagems but give detachments overall rules that help just the units specific to that detachment.
I.e. troops in battalions get a buff, vangaurd buff only affects elites, spearhead buff only affects heavies and so on.

Now this is a jump point not a end all. I believe that one set of rules for all game types is imperative though. The new modular system is overwhelming.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Warpspy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

As far as i know, Marines exist as a unit since the first game. Mega-zorgs and company only existed in Epic and were brought to 40k only in the last few editions, making 40k an "Epic in 28 mm." Before they were restricted to "Apocalypse games" (that nowadays makes no sense to have, because every 40k game is an Apocalypse one... ), and even before they were only in Epic and didn't exist in 40k proper. Warhammer 40k always has been a more or less skirmish-sized game. So to me it would make sense to have a "size" limitation and allow the bigger monstruosities and vehicles only in the bigger games. I think FW actually does this in their Horus Heresy game, and it is much more reasonable and balanced.

There were rules for big things in Rogue Trader as well as for Marines

I don't think that "big things" really means the same as today. That said, i don't know very much about Rogue trader. I do know that 2nd and RT were much more "skirmish" than 3rd and folowing editions. And definetely there were no rules for super-heavies or airplanes in the main standard rules of 40k. But anyway...

White Dwarf even called out the fact that all of the big stuff was in the game to start with - on day one in RT

They had rules for 30m long dinosaurs and Catchan devils and Juggernaughts - vehicles that measured 24" on the table or larger and which could carry other vehicles.

Yeah but c'mon these were rules for hobbyists who converted or more likely scratch built these things and you'd have been lucky to see the rules actually used once throughout the lifespan of the edition. They weren't a staple of the game.

No dog in the fight here by the way. I don't tend to get the big things but that's just because they're a pain to store etc.

I do miss having a more tournie style game in Epic running alongside the more skimrishy/narrative 40 though as in the mid 90's. But that is the rose tinted glasses GW era for sure and likely it wasn't as great as I remember.

Honestly I want to see more stuff like the build your own landraider. Open war rules for stuff that GW wont make kits for. Bring back all the old 4th/5th editions crazy FW units that never were made. Plague tower, baneblade monestarry thing. Khorne tower of skulls. Toss in a few basic ideas on where to get the parts to build them and I would buy the hell out of that book. Would love to use big crazy silly models in apoc!

I miss the initiative stat and wish it would be added back in 8th. It was a natural defense in close combat for my Slaanesh daemons. Resolving in initiative order seems less confusing than the Slaanesh/Emperor's Children, special rule that modifies how the fight phase works

-free or subscription based online rules constantly updated with army building tool.
-plastic sisters

Do we need anything else?

ntin wrote:
I miss the initiative stat and wish it would be added back in 8th. It was a natural defense in close combat for my Slaanesh daemons. Resolving in initiative order seems less confusing than the Slaanesh/Emperor's Children, special rule that modifies how the fight phase works

I though slannesh just got to go first like banshees

also i would not want it back for combat. it made unwieldy weapons like powerboats basically pointless.


i wouldnt of minded it coming back but only for being able to leave combat but then one stat for one effect seems like a waste of ink too.

edit: triple agree on the online building tool. azyr for 40k would be fantastic.

 Desubot wrote:
but then one stat for one effect seems like a waste of ink too.

Well I guess we then need to remove weapons and ballistic skill as well as movement and leadership too. Initiative is not necessary in current 8th with all the falling back making melee almost like shooting where one side thrashes the other without meaningful resistance and then it is over.

 Desubot wrote:

ntin wrote:
I miss the initiative stat and wish it would be added back in 8th. It was a natural defense in close combat for my Slaanesh daemons. Resolving in initiative order seems less confusing than the Slaanesh/Emperor's Children, special rule that modifies how the fight phase works

I though slannesh just got to go first like banshees

also i would not want it back for combat. it made unwieldy weapons like powerboats basically pointless.

Slaanesh units fight first in existing combats only. Opponents that charge to get active 1 unit first then slaanesh player activates. That continues until the opponent runs out of charge units or the slaanesh player no longer has units.

Howling Banshees lost this ability in the codex. They are now immune to overwatch.

A proper Sisters of Battle codex. Throw in the Sisters of Silence if you want.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Warpspy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

As far as i know, Marines exist as a unit since the first game. Mega-zorgs and company only existed in Epic and were brought to 40k only in the last few editions, making 40k an "Epic in 28 mm." Before they were restricted to "Apocalypse games" (that nowadays makes no sense to have, because every 40k game is an Apocalypse one... ), and even before they were only in Epic and didn't exist in 40k proper. Warhammer 40k always has been a more or less skirmish-sized game. So to me it would make sense to have a "size" limitation and allow the bigger monstruosities and vehicles only in the bigger games. I think FW actually does this in their Horus Heresy game, and it is much more reasonable and balanced.

There were rules for big things in Rogue Trader as well as for Marines

I don't think that "big things" really means the same as today. That said, i don't know very much about Rogue trader. I do know that 2nd and RT were much more "skirmish" than 3rd and folowing editions. And definetely there were no rules for super-heavies or airplanes in the main standard rules of 40k. But anyway...

White Dwarf even called out the fact that all of the big stuff was in the game to start with - on day one in RT

They had rules for 30m long dinosaurs and Catchan devils and Juggernaughts - vehicles that measured 24" on the table or larger and which could carry other vehicles.

I can confirm that in WH40k:RT the rules allowed for pretty much anything. I'm not saying it scaled well, but there were rules for making up literally anything and using it in the game. Remember, there were no vehicles then. No Rhino. No Land Raiders. Just grav-tanks scratch-built from deodorant bottles, plastic spoons and a straw!

WH40k:RT had rules for flying jet-surfboards. Yes, they made a model of it. Yes, I have one. Yes, I vividly remember the game I decisively won using it. Sky-surfer Marine with a bolt-pistol and a Vortex Grenade. Mmm-MMM!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Honestly I want to see more stuff like the build your own landraider. Open war rules for stuff that GW wont make kits for. Bring back all the old 4th/5th editions crazy FW units that never were made. Plague tower, baneblade monestarry thing. Khorne tower of skulls. Toss in a few basic ideas on where to get the parts to build them and I would buy the hell out of that book. Would love to use big crazy silly models in apoc!

I'm with you, buddy. But this cannot happen until the game goes to a d10 based system. Mathematically, they're WAY past the point where they can write in a structure where you can invent something, give it stats and then come up with a quantified points value which doesn't require hours and hours of play-testing to be deemed "fair" to use in a game with strangers.

It's a fundamental design flaw in the core mechanics of the game. Even Rick Priestley (the guy who wrote WH:40k and Beyond the Gates of Antares) acknowledges this mathematical fact. 40k is inherently un-scalable, which is a big reason they had so many problems translating it into Epic and BFG successfully.

We used to wish we could play Grand Campaigns (like you can with lots of other games) where our Fleet could buzz into the system, drop our pods, land our vehicles and begin our assault on the reactors. Fight a grand battle, then when our HQ's got close enough, scale up to 28mm and fight mano-e-alieno. Go ahead, try it. The game mechanics are just too dissimilar. You have to be able to master circular logic like Rev. Graham trying to convince Prof. Dawkins that Big J is real. It's more work than it's worth.

I would LOVE to see 40k go to base d10. It would totally open up the options for player creativity and for their other games. Imagine learning 40k, then playing...Inquisitor without the beastly learning curve because the rules have the same core mechanics.