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 Corennus wrote:
Well I just got another Tac Squad. Because whatever else happens you always need more Tac Squads!

But now i'm stuck as to what i equip sgt special and heavy with.

The box comes with missile launcher...which is a good all rounder. but I have a spare lascannon......
Personally i've never put lascannons on tac squads because it's a waste of their versatility.
If only tac boxes came with multi-melta too!

Missiles or Lascannons is where it's at. You really don't want Multimetlas.

Tactical squads just sit in the back and plink at things with their heavy weapon, for the most part. They'll do far more for their cost sitting on an objective taking shots with only a Lascannon than they ever will trying to run up-board with a Multimelta.

That's never how i've played them

Sitting at the back with heavy weapons is dakka dread or devastator job. Tactical squads are for advancing and gaining objectives surely


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And I don't run them up the board. I drop them in with drop pod!

 Corennus wrote:
That's never how i've played them

Sitting at the back with heavy weapons is dakka dread or devastator job. Tactical squads are for advancing and gaining objectives surely

Tacticals also sit at the back, that's why they have a heavy weapon. Advancing up the board is for units that are actually good at it.


If you want guys to move up the board on foot, I'd recommend Intercessors. The added range and AP of their bolt rifles will make a difference, and your heavy weapon isn't going to be performing anywhere near value if you're running all over the place with it.

If you want guys to move up the board in transports, I'd recommend Sternguard. 5 can ride a Razorback, and 10 can ride a Drop Pod, bringing a pretty nasty pile of special weapons to bear.

If you want a unit that's cheap and takes up space, I'd recommend Scouts. They get to deploy in the no-man's land, which will block deep strikers, outflankers, and vanguards.


You select Tactical Squads over Scouts or Intercessors because you desire the heavy weapon they bring.

 Corennus wrote:

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And I don't run them up the board. I drop them in with drop pod!

Don't, It's a waste of the points spent on the pod. Assuming you've doubled-up tactical units in the Pod, and they're fully loaded with Melta, you've spend 222 points on the Tacticals and 85 points on the Pod to get 4 melta shots, 2 of which are hitting on 4's, and all of which are almost certainly not getting the melta bonus against anything worthwhile. That's over 300 points to accomplish very little.

If you want a drop unit, use Sternguard. 10 Sternguard in a pod backed by a Captain and Lieutenant is a much more powerful unit and get much more value out of the Pod.

 Corennus wrote:
That's never how i've played them

Sitting at the back with heavy weapons is dakka dread or devastator job. Tactical squads are for advancing and gaining objectives surely

Well either you equip your Tactical Squad with a Heavy Weapon and deploy them defensively on your objectives, sniping with their Lascannon or Missile Launcher (anything else lacks range), or you put them in a transport and give them a set of matching combi- and special weapon. I'd suggest Plasma or Melta since Flamers are really underwhelming to me - especially the Combiflamer is kind of a waste considering it's usually D6+1 hits while a stormbolter is roughly 3 hits, but MUCH cheaper. And it's out of range if you use Drop Pods.

when I used to use transports i'd have melta and multi-melta out the hatch of a rhino.

The problem with loads of transports is :
(Real World)
Budget
Logistics (carrying them all!)

WH 40 World:
Loads of things can take out or immobilise a rhino.
Land Raiders are too expensive points wise





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have considered strormravens etc but theyre ultra £££ in terms of money AND points.


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I do like sternguard. Always have....

 Corennus wrote:
when I used to use transports i'd have melta and multi-melta out the hatch of a rhino.

The problem with loads of transports is :
(Real World)
Budget
Logistics (carrying them all!)

WH 40 World:
Loads of things can take out or immobilise a rhino.
Land Raiders are too expensive points wise





Automatically Appended Next Post:
have considered strormravens etc but theyre ultra £££ in terms of money AND points.


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I do like sternguard. Always have....

You should really read up on what 8th edition does differently. Especially transports and vehicles were changed massively. And a Razorback isn't really expensive, it's 2 euros cheaper than a tactical squad. And for logistics.. They're boxes without many details that could break. Just stack them in a bigger box? Drop pods are harder to transport I'd say.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Corennus wrote:
That's never how i've played them

Sitting at the back with heavy weapons is dakka dread or devastator job. Tactical squads are for advancing and gaining objectives surely

Tacticals also sit at the back, that's why they have a heavy weapon. Advancing up the board is for units that are actually good at it.


If you want guys to move up the board on foot, I'd recommend Intercessors. The added range and AP of their bolt rifles will make a difference, and your heavy weapon isn't going to be performing anywhere near value if you're running all over the place with it.

If you want guys to move up the board in transports, I'd recommend Sternguard. 5 can ride a Razorback, and 10 can ride a Drop Pod, bringing a pretty nasty pile of special weapons to bear.

If you want a unit that's cheap and takes up space, I'd recommend Scouts. They get to deploy in the no-man's land, which will block deep strikers, outflankers, and vanguards.


You select Tactical Squads over Scouts or Intercessors because you desire the heavy weapon they bring.

 Corennus wrote:

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And I don't run them up the board. I drop them in with drop pod!

Don't, It's a waste of the points spent on the pod. Assuming you've doubled-up tactical units in the Pod, and they're fully loaded with Melta, you've spend 222 points on the Tacticals and 85 points on the Pod to get 4 melta shots, 2 of which are hitting on 4's, and all of which are almost certainly not getting the melta bonus against anything worthwhile. That's over 300 points to accomplish very little.

If you want a drop unit, use Sternguard. 10 Sternguard in a pod backed by a Captain and Lieutenant is a much more powerful unit and get much more value out of the Pod.

Gotta say I disagree with much of this post. Tacticals being used for sniping defensively is often a waste of potential, imo. I'm usually pushing them up alongside everything else to keep the pressure high and the bolters/specials firing to full effect. Tacticals armed right can go toe to toe with Sternguard point-for-point. I like the potential to bring Tacs, Stern and Devastators to the game and dropping whatever combination seems best for the scenario, using combat squads to mix and match further.

In specific response to the scenario posted above, Tacs could drop melta, combi-melta squads instead, saving some points and hitting more. Or if originally bought in 10 man squads, (multimelta, melta, combi-melta)x2, with the other 10 guys advancing to objectives or to meet up with the spearhead or whatever. Not that I usually reccomend Melta, but Salamanders might be an exception if you're also dropping He'stan in another Pod with Devs or something.

...

Some people magnetize their special weapons. I just snap off and reglue alternates mine every once in a while, usually for edition changes.

I can't believe people are suggesting he model guys with multimeltas, or advocating the melta out of a drop pod is even close to a smart idea.

If you get your multi-melta in its ideal range of its ideal target, that's ~4.5 damage expected. Compared to 3.5 from the lascannon, which can function without moving and from 48" away, easily within your reroll bubble. Like there is no argument for the melta right now.

Now, if they were to change lascannons to a flat 3, and change meltas to be 2 outside of melta range, and 5 within melta range, it might be a worthwhile enterprise. In this scenario a melta, even with -1 to hit and wounding on 4s, becomes better than a lascannon against T8, even if the lascannon doesn't move. (Although, this presupposes that you can even get your melta into multi-melta range. Not everyone plays sisters of battle, so it's mostly infeasible.)

 Marmatag wrote:
I can't believe people are suggesting he model guys with multimeltas, or advocating the melta out of a drop pod is even close to a smart idea.

If you get your multi-melta in its ideal range of its ideal target, that's ~4.5 damage expected. Compared to 3.5 from the lascannon, which can function without moving and from 48" away, easily within your reroll bubble. Like there is no argument for the melta right now.

Now, if they were to change lascannons to a flat 3, and change meltas to be 2 outside of melta range, and 5 within melta range, it might be a worthwhile enterprise. In this scenario a melta, even with -1 to hit and wounding on 4s, becomes better than a lascannon against T8, even if the lascannon doesn't move. (Although, this presupposes that you can even get your melta into multi-melta range. Not everyone plays sisters of battle, so it's mostly infeasible.)

We don't even do multimeltas on anything other than our tanks. Even then, most of us don't even do that because the Immolation Flamer is significantly better for cost.

 Marmatag wrote:
I can't believe people are suggesting he model guys with multimeltas, or advocating the melta out of a drop pod is even close to a smart idea.

If you get your multi-melta in its ideal range of its ideal target, that's ~4.5 damage expected. Compared to 3.5 from the lascannon, which can function without moving and from 48" away, easily within your reroll bubble. Like there is no argument for the melta right now.

Now, if they were to change lascannons to a flat 3, and change meltas to be 2 outside of melta range, and 5 within melta range, it might be a worthwhile enterprise. In this scenario a melta, even with -1 to hit and wounding on 4s, becomes better than a lascannon against T8, even if the lascannon doesn't move. (Although, this presupposes that you can even get your melta into multi-melta range. Not everyone plays sisters of battle, so it's mostly infeasible.)

I don't think anyone suggested he should grab multimeltas. I think the downsides were pointed out by multiple people. HE keeps insisting on Multimeltas inside of Drop Pods.

If you're playing Salamanders, you can make melta+combi-melta work quite well thanks to the re-rolls, and even better with He'stan. But Multimeltas aren't worth the extra cost and the -1 just hurts too much, as you said.
The only good place for a multimelta is on top of a Land Raider, or in the sponsons of a Land Raider. And since LR themself aren't a great choice ... well.

*edit* just noticed - I think you confused melta and multimelta. People (e.g. myself) were suggesting melta and combi-melta INSTEAD of multimeltas.

It's not 7th edition anymore. Moving and firing with heavy weapons, especially with rerolls, isn't a huge deal, and Salamanders get rerolls by default.

Edit: and having your bolters firing at the same target because they're in range now means that you're making up the difference.

Wow. a lot of love lost for the multi-melta in 8th I see.

Worth noting that Scouts can take a heavy weapon too. They can set up closer to the enemy and, if you're using snipers, don't need to move. I've built mine with the missile launcher in the box but considering how easy it'd be to use different heavys on them.

I used to really love scout snipers back in 5th ed. Cover saves with camo cloaks giving a 3+ cover save and sniper rifles able to rend were really fun unit to take out pesky opponent units in the open, and coupled with a techmarine using Blessing of the Omnissiah to boost cover saves of a ruin you could get a 2+ cover save!

i've managed to get hold of Space Marine unit rules and costs so will be looking at them in more detail.

Scouts are really good, because they're cheap and can deploy outside your deployment area. Vanguard, Outflank, and Deep Strike can' happen within 9" of an enemy, so they're among the better options for blunting those attacks. They will die on turn 1 though, so be prepared on turn 2.

I'm not sure if I would have categorized a mutlimelta as "good for infantry" in 5th, 6th, or 7th.

Multimelta was dope on Skyhammer Devastators in 7th.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Multimelta was dope on Skyhammer Devastators in 7th.

They also used to be cheep. So tossing them around wasn’t that big an investment. And when they did get to fire, they could put the hurt in. Low cost/high reward. Situational, but useful.

Now they are crazy expensive for what they do. And what they do best is not unique to them, and the edges they have over other options (extra AP, re-roll D at half range) doesn’t justify the drawbacks (short range, price)

I think they can still be effective. Things you get to shoot at with them feel it. But they are not very efficient. You spend a lot of points on them that could be invested elsewhere.

I’ve had some fun with drop pods with full-melta tac squads in 8th. They might be a bit overpriced, and do a job that could be done better by other units, but they can work. At least on a more casual level. And I have the models and enjoy the theme of drop lists, so it works for me. I do include them in lists knowing full well that if I were to tighten it up, they would be one of the first things on the chopping block. I’d also probably not recommend them to new players.

But if you have them and love them, by all means field them. But do so armed with the knowledge that it’s not 7th edition any more; their time in the sun is over.

I've been toying with including a multi-melta in a large squad of Sternguard that I'd deploy with Strike from the Shadows. I should be able to start the game in ideal melta range, but my concern is that bubblewrap will mean I won't be in range of anything worth shooting. That seems to me to be the biggest problem, along with price: you'll never get close enough to your preferred targets to take advantage of the melta special rules.

hmmm bye bye multi-melta......ok

Waht about grav guns? they've always seemed a good idea.

Toying with lascannons or heavy bolters on the tacs. Since they're going up field.

 Corennus wrote:
hmmm bye bye multi-melta......ok

Waht about grav guns? they've always seemed a good idea.

Toying with lascannons or heavy bolters on the tacs. Since they're going up field.

I'd definitely go with the heavy bolter to cut down costs so you can buy more, grabbing more objectives.

 Corennus wrote:
hmmm bye bye multi-melta......ok

Waht about grav guns? they've always seemed a good idea.

Toying with lascannons or heavy bolters on the tacs. Since they're going up field.

Grav guns aren't too good. Grav Cannons are pretty awesome.

Heavy Bolter is a no-go, imo. A waste of a heavy weapon choice. A Grav Cannon has more shots, and hurts more target types. Limited to 24" like the Multimelta, but a solid all around choice. I expect my tacticals to be in close, so the 24" range isn't an issue.

My tacticals are usually armed with Grav Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma. Occasionally I use a Lascannon instead of the Grav Cannon.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Corennus wrote:
hmmm bye bye multi-melta......ok

Waht about grav guns? they've always seemed a good idea.

Toying with lascannons or heavy bolters on the tacs. Since they're going up field.

Grav guns aren't too good. Grav Cannons are pretty awesome.

Heavy Bolter is a no-go, imo. A waste of a heavy weapon choice. A Grav Cannon has more shots, and hurts more target types. Limited to 24" like the Multimelta, but a solid all around choice. I expect my tacticals to be in close, so the 24" range isn't an issue.

My tacticals are usually armed with Grav Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma. Occasionally I use a Lascannon instead of the Grav Cannon.

I special weapon spac. Two combat squads with plas and plas sergeant.

 Corennus wrote:
hmmm bye bye multi-melta......ok

Waht about grav guns? they've always seemed a good idea.

Toying with lascannons or heavy bolters on the tacs. Since they're going up field.

Mine don't have grav cannons, so I can't comment on them. I haven't seen them on the board since 8th hit, so that might be indicative of the answer.

My "tacticals" don't get heavy weapons, but if they did I'd take lascannons.

If you're really, really in love with pushing with tacticals, I'd go las-plas in squads of 10, and have the lascannon half sit at the back and the plasmagun-sergeant half advance up the board. In the same vein, though, I generally try to take the minimum amount of tactical marines I can, because points spend on Grey Hunters is points not spent on Wolf Guard, Razorbacks, Predators, Long Fangs, etc.

Well currently I have 2 squads of tacticals armed thus:

Sgt with chainsword and combi-grav
Specialist with Grav Gun
Heavy Weapon with Multi-Melta (soon to be lascannon /heavy bolter)

 Corennus wrote:
Well currently I have 2 squads of tacticals armed thus:

Sgt with chainsword and combi-grav
Specialist with Grav Gun
Heavy Weapon with Multi-Melta (soon to be lascannon /heavy bolter)

I'd go las-plas-combi-plas if I was dead set on running 10-man tacticals.

However, I do like to avoid bringing more than 3 minimum size units of tacticals, since that opens more points for tanks and other nice things.

Haha, and I'm the opposite. Why would you spend points on tanks when you could get MOAR MARINES instead?

Because marines are terrible for their cost.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Haha, and I'm the opposite. Why would you spend points on tanks when you could get MOAR MARINES instead?

Because tanks.

More relevantly, some tanks can be called "good". It would be incredibly generous to call tactical marines so. "Adequate" is probably a better term for them. They're not so bad that my army would be better off without their presence, but they're not exactly winning any MVP awards.

Tac marines are trash, but lascannons aren't. That's what I'd say.

I ran a Skyhammer annihilation force in 7th edition. Grav was the way to go.