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Can a daemon from the daemon codex summon with daemonic ritual a daemon from the death guard codex? So, lets say your running a death guard brigade detachment with beasts of nurgle or plaguebearers, etc, and you have a super heavy detachment with Scabiethrax using the daemon codex. Could the daemon codex Scabies summon death guard codex daemons from the death guard detachment that are in reserve? Please reference the rule(s) youre pulling your answer from. Thanks.

Sanguissaevus wrote:
Could the daemon codex Scabies summon death guard codex daemons from the death guard detachment that are in reserve?

Daemons that you summon are not in reserve. You set aside points when you make your roster, and when you successfully summon a unit, you deduct those points from those that you set aside.

The points thing notwithstanding, yes, you can summon from any book you want so long as you have the right keywords.

Keep in mind that summoned units like this are not part of any detachment. They won't ever (directly) benefit, nor deny, legion traits and the like.

The rules reference is the rules for Daemonic Ritual themselves. They give you permission for a unit with the correct keywords to summon a unit with the Daemonic Ritual rule. Death Guard can only summon NURGLE units, it doesn't matter where those NURGLE units come from, so long as the unit has the Daemonic Ritual rule.

Yes, but am the summonable daemons are identical across the codices (bar a handful of errors, which I don't believe are relevant here )

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Yes, but am the summonable daemons are identical across the codices (bar a handful of errors, which I don't believe are relevant here )

CSM daemons that share an entry with the Chaos Daemons codex (other than Horrors but expect that to be errata'd again soon) have the DAEMON keyword, not the DAEMON faction keyword. Otherwise, identical.

2 questions then:

1. So, if they are points set aside then they arent taking a troop or elite or any other unit slot in regards to detachment requitements no?


"Keep in mind that summoned units like this are not part of any detachment. They won't ever (directly) benefit, nor deny, legion traits and the like."

2. Also, youre saying the summoned daemons cant use any codex strategems? If thats what your saying could you olease reference that?

Summoned units do not belong to a Detachment and do not fill any slots.

Sanguissaevus wrote:
2 questions then:

1. So, if they are points set aside then they arent taking a troop or elite or any other unit slot in regards to detachment requitements no?

2. Also, youre saying the summoned daemons cant use any codex strategems? If thats what your saying could you olease reference that?

1. Correct. They are not in any detachment.

2. They can be the target of stratagems if you've unlocked them with a legal detachment and are a legal target. Stratagems don't care what detachment you're in, just what keywords you have. Only the ability to unlock the stratagems is tied to a pure detachment.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Sanguissaevus wrote:
2 questions then:

1. So, if they are points set aside then they arent taking a troop or elite or any other unit slot in regards to detachment requitements no?

2. Also, youre saying the summoned daemons cant use any codex strategems? If thats what your saying could you olease reference that?

1. Correct. They are not in any detachment.

2. They can be the target of stratagems if you've unlocked them with a legal detachment and are a legal target.

Stratagems don't care what detachment you're in, just what keywords you have. Only the ability to unlock the stratagems is tied to a pure detachment.

Ok, so if im hearing you right and using my previous example, the daemons summoned from scabies would take on daemon codex strategems but not death guard no?

Sanguissaevus wrote:
Ok, so if im hearing you right and using my previous example, the daemons summoned from scabies would take on daemon codex strategems but not death guard no?

They don't "take on" anything.

You unlock stratagems by having a detachment that meets the requirements to unlock them. If all you have is a Death Guard detachment, all you have access to is Death Guard Stratagems, regardless of what you summon. You can use the Death Guard stratagems on anything that matches the keywords needed to use the stratagem on, regardless of what book they are from.

What are you trying to accomplish by summoning "from another codex"?

Every deamon of nurgle in the deathguard codex should be in the Deamon codex with the Deamon Codex having the most current datasheet for the unit since it's the most recently published.

Any Nurgle Deamon you summon is going to use the Deamon codex datasheet.

What are you trying to do?

 Lance845 wrote:
What are you trying to accomplish by summoning "from another codex"?

Every deamon of nurgle in the deathguard codex should be in the Deamon codex with the Deamon Codex having the most current datasheet for the unit since it's the most recently published.

Any Nurgle Deamon you summon is going to use the Deamon codex datasheet.

What are you trying to do?

My guess is that he wants a Daemons Detachment alongside the Death Guard one, in order to use a DG Character to summon from the Daemons Codex (thus having the DAEMON Faction Keyword) and be able to use Daemons Stratagems on them (due to the RaW ignoring Special Snowflake FAQ).

Close yes. Specifically, i had in mind attaching scabies to deathguard but i wanted him under the daemon codex to use the warp strategem. I then wanted to summon a troop or other daemon selection using him to summon. Seeing that they dont go into reserve though and are just saved points i guess its a moot point. Ill summon them with scabies and they will have access to daemon codex strategems if i understand correctly. Also, whatever i summon wont be takong up a slot from my death guard detachment. You see, the super heavy detachment doesnt have a slot for anything else and part of my worry was whatever he summoned that didnt have a slot under super heavy wouldnt jive woth the rules....amongst my other concerns.

Lets clear part of this up.

First, what gives you access to using stratagems is having a detachment that is that thing.

So a csm detachment will give you csm strat.

Having a deamons detachment will give you deamon strats.

Having a nurgle deamons detachment will give you nurgle and generic deamon strats.

If you have a detachment with deathguard units and codex deamon units (ones that are not shared between the 2 specifically) you will get none of these because its now just a chaos detachment and there are no chaos stratagems.

Using the stratagems on a unit only requires that the unit meets the targetting requirments of the stratagem itself.

 Lance845 wrote:
Using the stratagems on a unit only requires that the unit meets the targetting requirments of the stratagem itself.

With the exception that Daemon Statagems have a Special Snowflake FAQ forcing their DAEMON to be Faction Keywords, in contradiction to the Rules and Previous FAQs.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Using the stratagems on a unit only requires that the unit meets the targetting requirments of the stratagem itself.

With the exception that Daemon Statagems have a Special Snowflake FAQ forcing their DAEMON to be Faction Keywords, in contradiction to the Rules and Previous FAQs.

Sure but that faq just refines the targeting requirments in a special snowflake way. The only requirement for having a stratagem used on you is still meeting the targeting requirments of the strat.

I was wondering why there are some daemons in the DG codex and not all. I assumed that daemonic ritual for DG was limited to the daemons in their codex only.

So while this is really difficult to achieve is it theoretically possible to summon a GUO from a mono DG army? (if you have enough points set aside)

 Nithaniel wrote:
I was wondering why there are some daemons in the DG codex and not all. I assumed that daemonic ritual for DG was limited to the daemons in their codex only.

So while this is really difficult to achieve is it theoretically possible to summon a GUO from a mono DG army? (if you have enough points set aside)

Yep. I'm going to try it too. The odds aren't great but there is a stratagem that's let's you roll 4d6 and not risk losing wounds.

 Nithaniel wrote:
I was wondering why there are some daemons in the DG codex and not all. I assumed that daemonic ritual for DG was limited to the daemons in their codex only.

So while this is really difficult to achieve is it theoretically possible to summon a GUO from a mono DG army? (if you have enough points set aside)

You assume incorrectly. The daemons in the codex are there so people don't HAVE to buy the Daemons codex to summon daemons.

And yes, perfectly acceptable to summon a GUO with a DEATH GUARD CHARACTER.