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 Earth127 wrote:
I love the new Mordenkainen book. but it does have more uses as a dm than as a player.

It absolutely does. But the good thing about me, a usual DM, having it is that my players benefit from it. Also why I invested in a copy of the SCAG this weekend. Now I can provide all player options to my players.

Just picked it up with the alternate cover. Pretty cool, though I think on at least a first glance I prefer Volo's Guide.

 Da Boss wrote:
Just picked it up with the alternate cover. Pretty cool, though I think on at least a first glance I prefer Volo's Guide.

Why do you say that?

slight sidebar :


from 1980 :

https://www.facebook.com/BBCArchive/videos/572990156407352/?hc_ref=ARRySRVndMmHI2AJXH3fT5r0Ra_hfC_QusIzY57a3KtzI9ckyk57yWGnRvSXr3dHLfY

and from today :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42874044

RPGing with suits and ties - I'd never!

In terms of 5E, aside from the 3 Core Rulebooks, are there any that are considered 'must have'?

And have they released any campaign settings yet?

A revised for 5th Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk?

On Mordenkainens tome of foes:
Well, I like the book, but I like all kinds of fantasy bestiaries so that's a given.
I'll talk about them by section if you don't mind:
- Blood War/Demons and Devils - This section was alright. New players getting a low down on who's who and the concept of the Blood War is cool. It's nothing I don't know already but worth including.
- Elves and Drow - omg so boring. I do not like the Dungeons and Dragons conception of Elves at all. I thought they were going to go for something more interesting with the Eladrin, but nope, it's all god focused nonsense. I really dislike the focus on the personalities and soap opera of the gods in dungeons and dragons at the moment. I rather have the gods as distant and inscrutable beings, or petty tyrants of limited and localized power.
- Halflings and Gnomes - same as above, except I found the writing in this section even worse.
- Dwarves and Duregar - I didn't hate this section (I love me some dwarves) and it's cool to see Duregar getting some development, but again, too god focused and it seems to me that one clan of dwarves being the "big bad" for the rest of the entire race is a bit much.
- Gith and Githyanki - not my style either but it's a good intro for people who might like that sort of thing.
If I forgot a section here, well, then it mustn't have been that memorable.

I guess I just didn't find much gameable content in there. I don't find the current conception of the races as put forward by WOTC particularly compelling, so I make my own versions of their backstories which fit my own setting. So the front half of the book is essentially useless to me.

The monsters section is the real meat for me, and there's some interesting stuff in here. I liked the development of certain enemy types from 4e into something a bit more grounded and understandable, and I think the design of the monsters themselves (mechanically) is getting a lot better and more interesting. You see a lot more stuff for monsters to do that is unique and will generate a memorable encounter. I feel the original MM, great though it is, was missing some of this stuff - like the Hydroloth's memory stealing ability. On the other hand, the art was a bit hit and miss, and some monsters didn't get any art at all, which I think for a 50 quid book is pretty poor. And the monster selection was broadly uninteresting to me, with a lot of not particularly exciting stuff or weird stuff that wouldn't fit my game. I was also very disappointed that they dodged giving us statistics for the Archdevils to match the statistics already presented for the Demon Princes.

Volo's had some of the same weaknesses, but the content presented was much more gameable, and rather than just recounting the divine soap opera, the link to religion tended to be expressed in how the culture was organised. The section on Orcs is a good example of this - by using the pantheon they create an interesting lair to explore with a variety of different orcs that interact with the players in interesting ways. Each enemy type had a lair presented as well, which you could use in your game, which I think was a great idea (I saw some criticizing this, but I love a generic map I can use). And I liked the monsters presented in Volos more as well - they're more the sort of thing I would insert into my world.

I guess it comes down to taste- I like my dungeons and dragons to be fairly grounded and free of that sort of over the top interest in religions and gods, and I like monsters that fit a certain tone of game that I enjoy running.

That said, I don't mind at all owning the book and I will pretty much always buy monster books, and I approve of WOTC experimenting with different approaches to these things. It's well produced and not criticially flawed, and there's definitely someone out there for whom this is the perfect bestiary.

On campaign settings: Not really, I suppose is the answer. All the adventures bar Curse of Strahd and Tomb of Annihilation have been set in or under the Sword Coast region of the Forgotten Realms, and setting information and maps are sort of spread throughout all these huge adventures. So I guess Forgotten Realms is the default setting, but it's not been released in the traditional campaign setting way. I think this is likely a good thing though as it will encourage DMs to create their own worlds, which is a lot of fun.

Must Have Rulebooks: Hmmm. I mean apart from the core rules you pretty much have a bunch of adventures, Xanathar's Guide to Everything and the two monster books. The Sword Coast Adventurer's guide is a fun read but it is actually designed for Players I think. I wouldn't consider any of the books a "must have" apart from the core 3, and even then I'd say you can get by without the DMG. My favourite adventure so far is Out of the Abyss, which is the underdark/demon themed one and definitely the most original and fun one to read through. Volos is the better bestiary. I wasn't that blown away by Xanathar's. Not really something i'd get a lot of use out of. I enjoyed reading Sword Coast, but never used any of it for anything.

Nice, concise review. I flipped through a friend's copy. The book is not aimed at people like me ( who have been gaming since before there was a WoTC, or even AD&D.) I found nothing new of use in it.

Just to echo what Da Boss said; you only need the 3 core books. Everything else is quite optional. I would recommend Volo's if you are fairly new to D&D. The default campaign setting is Forgotten Realms. There is no pure source book for it, but it permeates everything.

I threw in a couple of monsters from MToF last night and they were a mixed bag. The Venom Troll was a fun one (it dishes out a lot of AoE Poison damage, 2d8 automatically whenever it's hit by anything other than Psychic, with the option to do 4d8 via self-inflicted wounds, neat as a death throw attack) but the Battering Ram Ogres were a tad underwhelming, given the jump from CR2 (regular ogres) to CR4. They dished out a bit more damage, but with only one pip of AC more and the same rough HP means they're go down about as easily. I'd pitch them as CR3 to be honest, that seems more appropriate.

I like the fact they added some more types of Ogre though, as they are handy for reskinning as other creatures of a similar size when you want something with a bit more HP and damage than the standard options for that race.

One of the things from 4th that I really liked was the variety of different pre-made "types" for any sort of humanoid or giant. In 3.X you'd have had to give them class levels and stat them up, but here they kinda showed that you can take a basic skeleton, slap some special abilities on it and call it a day. Really makes sense and makes planning encounters a lot easier. So I was glad to see it making more of a comeback in Volos - the main monster manual focused more on getting different monsters than multiple versions of the same type, but it's useful to have those extra types for common foes to spice things up.

So D&D doesn't do big box campaign settings anymore?

Not so far at least. But I daresay there's probably still a lot of mileage in old campaign settings if that's your thing, all the lore/adventures ect will still be perfectly functional, you might just have to swap in a few monster stat blocks, spells and such.

Though there is a big announcement coming soon at the Stream of Many Eyes event next week, that might be a campaign book (though I'm guessing another adventure is possibly more likely)

 Mysterio wrote:
So D&D doesn't do big box campaign settings anymore?

Yeah, it seems that way. I love campaign settings personally, but perhaps I'm part of a pretty small market.

Well, you and me at the very least Boss!

Maybe they'll eventually revive them, at least for the FR, and possibly Greyhawk.

Mordenkainen gives me hope for that. It's the first 5E book to really adress the different ones. Before we had adventure modules set nominally in the forgotten Realms and 1 in Ravenloft. The DMG mentions some but very surface level.

It's been pretty much all adventures set in the forgotten realms or encouragement to make your own setting. (As I am doing using a lot of warhammer inspiration).

 Mysterio wrote:
RPGing with suits and ties - I'd never!

In terms of 5E, aside from the 3 Core Rulebooks, are there any that are considered 'must have'?

And have they released any campaign settings yet?

A revised for 5th Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk?

I would whole-heartedly recommend Xanathar's Guide at the very least. It has expanded traps, downtime activities, and rules/guidelines for tools. As well as random encounter tables, more magic items, DM tips for balancing encounters and giving out loot. And then of course all of the player subclasses and background tables (which are hella fun to roll on). It's a very useful book to have.

Is there a good, detailed city supplement out there that I can adopt for use in a 5E campaign?

Well, the most detailed city supplement ever produced was Monte Cook's Ptolus. It's expensive but it's exhaustively detailed, probably one of the best produced gaming books ever made.

Or for a more old school city with a lawful evil bent and a bit of a gonzo feel, the Necromancer Games remake of the City State of the Invincible Overlord is quite good.

Alternatively, if you want a pretty rules light city again with an evil feel but more exotic than the average fantasy city I like the Guide to Korvasa that Paizo did.

Of the three, Ptolus is the best, but it's expensive and maaaassive.

So, my "Critical Mode" game has had it's session 0. After planning this game for almost a year, we're starting here next week. I'm so excited.

They decided upon an intro quest they would be interested in and would give a reason for everyone to come together for adventure. They'll be investigating a northern mine that has gone silent about a month ago, but has strangely not affected the iron supply coming into the city. This dungeon will be designed for a level 1 party, but will be incredibly difficult and I expect some people will die.

The party is as follows:

- A human Rogue who works for the town guard as an investigator.

- A Dragonborn Fighter who is the partner to aforementioned Rogue.

- A Hill Dwarf Forge Cleric who is exceptionally mediocre at everything and likes to build stuff, no matter what it is.

- A human Ranger who was adopted by Orcs, became an Anthropologist, and got dragged into a war in which he became a hero.

- A Githzerai Monk who inherited a special tattoo from his master in Limbo and is now here for some reason.

- An Aasimar Sorcerer and his horse, both of which may or may not be criminals.

I'm very excited to see how they fair with these difficult rules. They'll be diving into the mines next week, and we shall see!

 reds8n wrote:
slight sidebar :


from 1980 :

https://www.facebook.com/BBCArchive/videos/572990156407352/?hc_ref=ARRySRVndMmHI2AJXH3fT5r0Ra_hfC_QusIzY57a3KtzI9ckyk57yWGnRvSXr3dHLfY

and from today :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42874044

The world of tabletop gaming was once the preserve of nervous teenage boys holed up in dark basements and bedrooms.

This stereotype hasn't died yet huh?

 Da Boss wrote:
Well, the most detailed city supplement ever produced was Monte Cook's Ptolus. It's expensive but it's exhaustively detailed, probably one of the best produced gaming books ever made.

Or for a more old school city with a lawful evil bent and a bit of a gonzo feel, the Necromancer Games remake of the City State of the Invincible Overlord is quite good.

Alternatively, if you want a pretty rules light city again with an evil feel but more exotic than the average fantasy city I like the Guide to Korvasa that Paizo did.

Of the three, Ptolus is the best, but it's expensive and maaaassive.

It looks like all of those books are out of print - and are all on the expensive side of things now.

 Mysterio wrote:
Is there a good, detailed city supplement out there that I can adopt for use in a 5E campaign?

Check out Zak Sabbath's book Vornheim:

http://www.lotfp.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=42&product_id=67

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/91110/Vornheim-The-Complete-City-Kit

https://www.nobleknight.com/P/2147598170/Vornheim---The-Complete-City-Kit-2nd-Printing

Mysterio: Oh yeah, it's true they are out of print. I was thinking of the PDF versions on RPGnow or DrivethruRPG or whatever. Ptolus is unwieldy in that format but it is useable, and City State and Guide to Korvasa are small enough that you could feasibly print out the sections you need and put them in a binder.

Edit: I've also heard good things about Vornheim, never used it though.

Manchu wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
Is there a good, detailed city supplement out there that I can adopt for use in a 5E campaign?

Check out Zak Sabbath's book Vornheim:

http://www.lotfp.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=42&product_id=67

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/91110/Vornheim-The-Complete-City-Kit

https://www.nobleknight.com/P/2147598170/Vornheim---The-Complete-City-Kit-2nd-Printing

I'll check it out - thanks!

Da Boss wrote:Mysterio: Oh yeah, it's true they are out of print. I was thinking of the PDF versions on RPGnow or DrivethruRPG or whatever. Ptolus is unwieldy in that format but it is useable, and City State and Guide to Korvasa are small enough that you could feasibly print out the sections you need and put them in a binder.

Edit: I've also heard good things about Vornheim, never used it though.

I do prefer a nice printed copy of things, but you bring up a good point about getting a PDF of the City State stuff and just printing out what's needed and making my own 'book', so to speak - thanks!

I have a big binder with the entire Wilderlands setting printed out and it's honestly more useful than a book as I can take chapters out as a need them and scribble notes on them without worry. I also have Barrowmaze done the same way, and it suits me for the same reason - I can edit and write notes everywhere.

I wrote up the huge battle in my game a fortnight ago on my blog, hope people don't mind me plugging it here with a link:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/670478.page#10002327

@Da Boss: That was a nice write up and quite the epic battle, I think everyone here will enjoy seeing it on your blog.

So last night was the first session of my Critical Mode 5e game. 2 of the 6 players couldn't make it, which upped the difficult another notch. The into/tutorial quest was to investigate the Iron Baron mine, which they found was abandoned/everyone was killed. Also something that eats metal is chilling somewhere.

Overall the game went better than expected. The party got along, actually attempted to roleplay, spent time considering how they were gonna get food and water, and so forth. They made it to the mine and began delving inside and cleared a total of 3 chambers, encountering 2 Magma Mephits and 8 Kobolds total so far. The Mephits are ridiculous for CR 1/2 creatures and knocked out 2 PCs during the fight.

After recouping over night they headed back in and fought the kobolds, luring them into a cramped hallway to limit their attacks. 3/4 of the party were knocked unconscious by slings and daggers, and the Githzerai Monk, who blocked some attacks to the cleric and stabilized the sorcerer, ended up dying. The last member conscious was the Ranger, who was using the light of the torch dropped by the Githzerai's mage hand to see the remaining 2 kobolds charging down the hall at him. He survived and killed both, with only one-hit's worth of hit points left. It was super intense. Everyone remaining is now retreating back to town for a week's rest (and to bring the other PCs with them next week), and they got out with only the Ranger having a grievous burn on his face.

Overall I like the mechanics of the variant rules. The players had to really budget their gold for tavern and food expenses, they spent half a day at camp outside the mine simply foraging, and had to not be dumb when it came to every decision they made. They even invested in a cart for the riding horse the sorcerer was given for free (via XGTE background rolls).

I'm certainly confident this group will do well, and it'll be a more rewarding experience overall. However, now the monk character needs to figure out what he's playing. He's a little sad he had to reset his experience.

Interesting to see that PCs can be Githzerai this time around!

I'm guessing that Githyanki are still off limits though?

 Mysterio wrote:
Interesting to see that PCs can be Githzerai this time around!

I'm guessing that Githyanki are still off limits though?

No, they are available options.

Ha!

So if you go Githyanki you kinda have to all be Githyanki?

I'm confused...

No, you can create a char that is githyanki and write a backstory for it.