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 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I'm really surprised with the hate at delaying the FAQ to include recent major GT results. Personally, I'm all done for them taking their time so we need less smaller FAQs down the road

Why have a release schedule if you're going to delay it for tournaments that happen on a weekly basis?

I just don't have the words to respond to this.

Spoiler:

Purifying Tempest wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Purifying Tempest wrote:

but there have been so many scenarios already pointed out where the rule flat out doesn't work... and creates problems that are bigger than the current problem.

Which one though?

Limit 3 full stop?
Limit 3 except troops?
Limit 3 except troops and transports?
Limit 3 per detachment?
Limit 3 per combat role?
Is the limit or name or keyword?
With soup? Without soup?

I'm not sure I want to piss off Ming.

This... this right here. This is why the rule is bad. You see all the questions? That is just scraping the tip.
.

My post appears to have gone right over your head.

Those are speculated/rumored variants of this rule all with varying degrees of effect and consequence. None of which can be appropriately addressed without the context in which they are surrounded.

I can't tell you if they address the problems, because I don't know the rules. We've already discussed the "whack-a-mole" issue over several pages so i'm not going to go over that again. The same problem exists when you adjust points BTW.

Dude - why can't you answer my question...seems pretty simple. Why have a release schedule if you aren't going to follow it?

"Plans are worthless. Planning is everything."

 WindstormSCR wrote:
I think this FAQ is now too many things to too many people and by delaying it they're only fueling the hate that will come no matter what they end up doing.

So it was in 4th/5th, so shall it apparently be again.

This is what happens when incompetent people are allowed to make decisions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
"Plans are worthless. Planning is everything."

Yeah that's just what I was thinking.

If only Ike were here. He'd have all the answers.

If it means anything the GW Facebook team is continuing to post lists that exceed this new 0-3 limit. I'd like to think this is indicative of the rumour being false but knowing GW it probably just means they're throwing the poor community team up gak creek without a paddle.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I'm really surprised with the hate at delaying the FAQ to include recent major GT results. Personally, I'm all done for them taking their time so we need less smaller FAQs down the road

Why have a release schedule if you're going to delay it for tournaments that happen on a weekly basis?

My guess is the tournament turned over some unexpected issues that ended up needing a larger fix then they had originally intended. Still would rather have them delay a release then rush one out for some arbitrary date and then have to fix it again soon after.

Edit:
seen some of your other posts now that seem to be really focused on why they would ever have a release schedule. Every company has a schedule to allow customers an idea of new products/rules/whatever. sometimes these get pushed back.... its really not a big deal. Think of it as a contractor that tells you he can replace a fixture in your house in a day. He then opens up the wall and finds you also have termites. Would you rather he seal it up and be "done" in a day just so he can then reopen it next week because of the termites or take 3 days and do it properly? The contractor simply gave you an estimated finish time if he hadn't found a much larger issue.

 WindstormSCR wrote:
I think this FAQ is now too many things to too many people and by delaying it they're only fueling the hate that will come no matter what they end up doing.

So it was in 4th/5th, so shall it apparently be again.

That's the community eating itself. They were going to freak out about it regardless.

think this delay was based primarily on three factors:

A ) Tournament Results
B ) Gap in 40k Codex Release Schedule
C ) Recently released codex FAQ's 2 week schedule falling within big FAQ period

This big FAQ schedule was probably more intended for the future. The current year release schedule is abnormal, and therefore likely FAQs are more adaptive or reactive, where it'll allow them to plan their product release schedule around set dates in the future.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Dude - why can't you answer my question...seems pretty simple. Why have a release schedule if you aren't going to follow it?

Because it's an intellectually dishonest question, but let's unpack it anyway...

Why have a release schedule if you're going to delay it for tournaments that happen on a weekly basis?

You're insinuating that the ongoing delays have been a result of "other weekly tournaments" when they've clearly stated they're processing the info they gleaned from Adepticon.

If you can't handle that it might take longer than a day for them to process that info I don't know what to tell you. e.g. If you meet all your deadlines at work you're either doing a poor job, your job is way too easy, or you're not pushing yourself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
"Plans are worthless. Planning is everything."

Yea, because when you plan to launch a new product and the Nazis suddenly launch a counter offensive and it just screws it all up.

Here's the full quote:

I tell this story to illustrate the truth of the statement I heard long ago in the Army: Plans are worthless, but planning is everything. There is a very great distinction because when you are planning for an emergency you must start with this one thing: the very definition of "emergency" is that it is unexpected, therefore it is not going to happen the way you are planning.

Zodd1888 wrote:
think this delay was based primarily on three factors:

A ) Tournament Results
B ) Gap in 40k Codex Release Schedule
C ) Recently released codex FAQ's 2 week schedule falling within big FAQ period

This big FAQ schedule was probably more intended for the future. The current year release schedule is abnormal, and therefore likely FAQs are more adaptive or reactive, where it'll allow them to plan their product release schedule around set dates in the future.

Th delay is based on them picking a month, more or less at random and then later discovering it coincides with Adepticon and then indeed noticing something pretty big during said tournament.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Dude - why can't you answer my question...seems pretty simple. Why have a release schedule if you aren't going to follow it?

Because it's an intellectually dishonest question, but let's unpack it anyway...

Why have a release schedule if you're going to delay it for tournaments that happen on a weekly basis?

You're insinuating that the ongoing delays have been a result of "other weekly tournaments" when they've clearly stated they're processing the info they gleaned from Adepticon.

If you can't handle that it might take longer than a day for them to process that info I don't know what to tell you. e.g. If you meet all your deadlines at work you're either doing a poor job, your job is way too easy, or you're not pushing yourself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
"Plans are worthless. Planning is everything."

Yea, because when you plan to launch a new product and the Nazis suddenly launch a counter offensive and it just screws it all up.

Here's the full quote:

I tell this story to illustrate the truth of the statement I heard long ago in the Army: Plans are worthless, but planning is everything. There is a very great distinction because when you are planning for an emergency you must start with this one thing: the very definition of "emergency" is that it is unexpected, therefore it is not going to happen the way you are planning.

I'm not insinuating that at all. In fact quite the opposite. If you take all the "large scale" tournaments over the past year - the data from adepticon is just a drop in the bucket. Yet - this small amount of data is causing a sudden delay in their release schedule? Plus - since everyone is blaming this whole thing on tyrants - I'm sure the several thousand emails they got when the codex was released about the auto include nature of monstrous rending claws because being free they are actually better than the option that cost 20 points. Pretty big red flag there.

There is nothing intellectually dishonest about expecting timelines to be met when multimillion dollar companies announce it world wide. Are you disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing with me? It really seems so.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Dude - why can't you answer my question...seems pretty simple. Why have a release schedule if you aren't going to follow it?

Because it's an intellectually dishonest question, but let's unpack it anyway...

Why have a release schedule if you're going to delay it for tournaments that happen on a weekly basis?

You're insinuating that the ongoing delays have been a result of "other weekly tournaments" when they've clearly stated they're processing the info they gleaned from Adepticon.

If you can't handle that it might take longer than a day for them to process that info I don't know what to tell you. e.g. If you meet all your deadlines at work you're either doing a poor job, your job is way too easy, or you're not pushing yourself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
"Plans are worthless. Planning is everything."

Yea, because when you plan to launch a new product and the Nazis suddenly launch a counter offensive and it just screws it all up.

Here's the full quote:

I tell this story to illustrate the truth of the statement I heard long ago in the Army: Plans are worthless, but planning is everything. There is a very great distinction because when you are planning for an emergency you must start with this one thing: the very definition of "emergency" is that it is unexpected, therefore it is not going to happen the way you are planning.

I'm not insinuating that at all. In fact quite the opposite. If you take all the "large scale" tournaments over the past year - the data from adepticon is just a drop in the bucket. Yet - this small amount of data is causing a sudden delay in their release schedule? Plus - since everyone is blaming this whole thing on tyrants - I'm sure the several thousand emails they got when the codex was released about the auto include nature of monstrous rending claws because being free they are actually better than the option that cost 20 points. Pretty big red flag there.

There is nothing intellectually dishonest about expecting timelines to be met when multimillion dollar companies announce it world wide. Are you disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing with me? It really seems so.

Adepticon is not a drop in the bucket when you consider the speed with which the meta changes at the moment thanks to the codex release schedule.
Getting even 2 big tournaments inside the same codex field is unlikely. Let alone an event of 500+

The meta changes with tournament house rules. Nids have been out quite a while. The same codex was out well before the LVO and tyrants did not dominate there. Everyone went into this next big tournament to have a lot of aliotoc eldar in it - so they specifically built a list to counter it and hoped that bringing 7 extremely underpriced tyrants to the table against anything else would be good enough to get past them.

4 Mawlocks are good at about only 1 thing- making sure a 5 man ranger unit can't screen you from tyrant deep strike. (they are actually a really terrible unit otherwise) really though they should look at the mawlock interaction with killing units in the moment phase - something like this is sure to cause shenanigans. It doesn't take an additional 2 weeks into April to figure that out though. Originally I was really confused about the mawlocks in the lists and then once I figured it out - I knew that was the source of the problem more than anything. There are lots of units in this game as equally under-pointed as tyrants and what do you want to bet the majority of them get ignored?

Also why are you so caught up on it being a 500 man tournament? The players play the same number of games. They are typically set up in groups - so it's even possible that many undefeated armies didn't advance to higher tiers because of a few objective points difference. It's not like these tyrant lists where the only armies that just decimated everything they went up against.

Bigger tournaments = more data points and more reliable data, assuming your looking at the entire field and not just who won.

 Ordana wrote:
Bigger tournaments = more data points and more reliable data, assuming your looking at the entire field and not just who won.

Are you aware of any other points? The only thing I've heard about is tyrants. Also - because the players play the same number of games - I don't think the data is anymore reliable. None of this data is reliable at all without at least categorizing each game by how it went.

For example
Games that ended because time ran out should be thrown out - that is really unreliable data. That's 50% of your games right there pretty much.
Narrow victories
crushing victories
Ect...

It would be wonderful if they were actaully doing anyalisis like that but I assure you - they aren't. They can't even be bothered to pay edditors to edit their codexes...or realize that if you pay points for something - it should probably be better than something that is free (see tyrants)

I have a sneaking suspicion that AOS is to blame for the delay and they are straight lying to us about adepticon. AOS is getting new armies and models all the time - that is where they want our attention.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Are you aware of any other points? The only thing I've heard about is tyrants.

We have literally no idea what they saw or what data they are basis the changes on. They've told us nothing. The community has assumed it's all about tyrants.

Also - because the players play the same number of games - I don't think the data is anymore reliable.

Same number of games as what? As each other? Or other tournaments.

Games that ended because time ran out should be thrown out - that is really unreliable data. That's 50% of your games right there pretty much.
Narrow victories
crushing victories

So they should throw out just about everything?

I have a sneaking suspicion that AOS is to blame for the delay and they are straight lying to us about adepticon. AOS is getting new armies and models all the time - that is where they want our attention.

I think the past two pages suggest that some people expect GW to hop in a time machine and release it last month.

Lemondish wrote:
I think the past two pages suggest that some people expect GW to hop in a time machine and release it last month.

It's not unreasonable to expect a company to stick to the timescale which they themselves advertised - especially since this is the first major release on said schedule.


Obviously they can't go back and meet their deadline now that's it has passed - but either they shouldn't have missed it in the first place, or they should have accounted for the fact that Adepticon was in March in their schedule.

Schedules slip. Deadlines are missed. It happens all the time and everywhere. It's nothing to be up in arms about.

pismakron wrote:
Schedules slip. Deadlines are missed. It happens all the time and everywhere. It's nothing to be up in arms about.

jfc I wish my boss was as understanding as you.

As someone who has worked in a large game company for the past decades I find this perfectly normal.

This is the first time GW is using this schedule/methodology. This means that there are going to be issues while GW irons out the kinks. If you have worked in a software company when scrum took over you should be somewhat familiar with issues when people are being switched to a new mode of operation. If this was the 3rd or 4th year they were having issues I'd get some of the complaints, but as it stands I find this complaining to be pointless coming from people in ivory armchair towers.

Second, after Adepticon they got some huge data that they had to mull over, and hopefully test. I would surely hope they attempt to do some smoke testing of their changes before releasing it into the wild.

gendoikari87 wrote:

pismakron wrote:
Schedules slip. Deadlines are missed. It happens all the time and everywhere. It's nothing to be up in arms about.

jfc I wish my boss was as understanding as you.

You have a terrible boss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldarsif wrote:
As someone who has worked in a large game company for the past decades I find this perfectly normal.

This is the first time GW is using this schedule/methodology. This means that there are going to be issues while GW irons out the kinks. If you have worked in a software company when scrum took over you should be somewhat familiar with issues when people are being switched to a new mode of operation. If this was the 3rd or 4th year they were having issues I'd get some of the complaints, but as it stands I find this complaining to be pointless coming from people in ivory armchair towers.

Second, after Adepticon they got some huge data that they had to mull over, and hopefully test. I would surely hope they attempt to do some smoke testing of their changes before releasing it into the wild.

Right. If my employees slip the first time they start a project, ok, let's adjust and move forward. If they keep slipping 3 or 4 times something is wrong that needs to be corrected.

This? People just want to grind their axes with their superiority complex.

Especially considering the hot money streak that 8th has proven so far. GW corporate can't really complain about the results.

 Eldarsif wrote:
As someone who has worked in a large game company for the past decades I find this perfectly normal.

This is the first time GW is using this schedule/methodology. This means that there are going to be issues while GW irons out the kinks. If you have worked in a software company when scrum took over you should be somewhat familiar with issues when people are being switched to a new mode of operation. If this was the 3rd or 4th year they were having issues I'd get some of the complaints, but as it stands I find this complaining to be pointless coming from people in ivory armchair towers.

Second, after Adepticon they got some huge data that they had to mull over, and hopefully test. I would surely hope they attempt to do some smoke testing of their changes before releasing it into the wild.

yeah no in my field that excuse does not fly

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
As someone who has worked in a large game company for the past decades I find this perfectly normal.

This is the first time GW is using this schedule/methodology. This means that there are going to be issues while GW irons out the kinks. If you have worked in a software company when scrum took over you should be somewhat familiar with issues when people are being switched to a new mode of operation. If this was the 3rd or 4th year they were having issues I'd get some of the complaints, but as it stands I find this complaining to be pointless coming from people in ivory armchair towers.

Second, after Adepticon they got some huge data that they had to mull over, and hopefully test. I would surely hope they attempt to do some smoke testing of their changes before releasing it into the wild.

yeah no in my field that excuse does not fly

Do you happen to work in miniature fantasy wargame design?

Delays are a regular occurance in construction, transportation, education, goverment and hell even medicine sometimes.

 davou wrote:


Do you happen to work in miniature fantasy wargame design?

I feel like this is the among the most relevant questions to ask of the community on this forum lately, many of whom are convinced not only that they can fix the game, but that they understand how and why GW makes their decisions.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

 davou wrote:


Do you happen to work in miniature fantasy wargame design?

I feel like this is the among the most relevant questions to ask of the community on this forum lately, many of whom are convinced not only that they can fix the game, but that they understand how and why GW makes their decisions.

We play a miniature wargame of course we're perfectly able to run an international muti-million pound company.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
I think the past two pages suggest that some people expect GW to hop in a time machine and release it last month.

It's not unreasonable to expect a company to stick to the timescale which they themselves advertised - especially since this is the first major release on said schedule.


Obviously they can't go back and meet their deadline now that's it has passed - but either they shouldn't have missed it in the first place, or they should have accounted for the fact that Adepticon was in March in their schedule.

No, it's not unreasonable. It's also not unreasonable to accept that things change.

What's unreasonable about this is the nerd rage screaming crybaby response to the delay. What's unreasonable is some nobody with zero authority claiming what should or should not have happened.

My number 1 expectation - half the people in the thread will rage no matter what is in the FAQ and the other half will be sustained by the salty tears.

I wonder if they're going to specify that fly doesn't allow you to charge over units.

Danny slag wrote:
I wonder if they're going to specify that fly doesn't allow you to charge over units.

I hope not. Guardsmen are strong enough as it is.

gendoikari87 wrote:

pismakron wrote:
Schedules slip. Deadlines are missed. It happens all the time and everywhere. It's nothing to be up in arms about.

jfc I wish my boss was as understanding as you.

That'll always depend on who your boss is. At my last job I built steering columns and they wouldn't let you miss the quota even when their machines they're too cheap to fix are malfunctioning. At my current job, much different as I just do paperwork and I always have a couple of days with each new patient.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

 davou wrote:


Do you happen to work in miniature fantasy wargame design?

I feel like this is the among the most relevant questions to ask of the community on this forum lately, many of whom are convinced not only that they can fix the game, but that they understand how and why GW makes their decisions.

With that said, it really isn't IMPOSSIBLE to fix some of the balance mistakes in the game. Some of you act like it's too easy, but a lot of you also act like it's super hard.