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 BaronIveagh wrote:
So Graf Spee has just become the most powerful DD killer in game then?

Since cruiser gun mechanics + battleship caliber weapons.

Nah, you're not accurate enough and you've only got 6 guns. Minotaur and Des Moines will still be king. Even at mid tiers you get ships like Molotov or the ever-OP Belfast.

Funny thing is it doesn't nerf the Conqueror at all though. You'll still get 13k+ salvoes on DDs with British HE.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Nah, you're not accurate enough and you've only got 6 guns. Minotaur and Des Moines will still be king. Even at mid tiers you get ships like Molotov or the ever-OP Belfast..

You're shooting them too far away if you're complaining about Graffs accuracy. However, I tend to use anything German at knife fight distances, so....

It doesn't do anything about Bismarck and Tirp either, since secondaries.

It does look like there would actually be a reason to take expert loader with that change. I mean, I still wouldn't take it, but there'd be kind of a point I guess.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Nah, you're not accurate enough and you've only got 6 guns. Minotaur and Des Moines will still be king. Even at mid tiers you get ships like Molotov or the ever-OP Belfast..

You're shooting them too far away if you're complaining about Graffs accuracy.

It has top-end Battleship dispersion and 6 guns. It's not accurate enough to get multiple full penetrations on DDs reliably. It doesn't have the rate of fire to be a strong DD killer, and it doesn't have the overwhelming burst damage that a Battleship can currently luck itself into. 280mm guns are technically Battleship guns, but only because the Scharnhorst carries them. They're noticeably weaker than even the Dunkerque's 340mm guns, let alone the 380mm guns of the Warspite or Bayern. A full penetration from a Graf Spee isn't nearly as devestating as a full penetration from a New Mexico or a Fuso for a DD.

I wasn't comparing Spee's accuracy to BBs by the way, but rather to other Cruisers. Even so, if she's just as accurate as other Cruisers 6 guns with a 20 second reload doesn't make her good at killing DDs reliably. She's an excellent Cruiser killer because Cruisers are larger targets and have Citadels.

Don't get me wrong, it's perfectly possible to slap DDs silly with the Graf Spee, but it's hardly "the most powerful DD killer in the game". Belfast's just one tier higher and absolutely demolishes DDs in a way the Spee could never hope to match. Tier 6 has Molotov with Donskoi's T9 railguns and Cleveland with a rain of HE that'll scour DDs away much better than the Spee.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

It has top-end Battleship dispersion and 6 guns. It's not accurate enough to get multiple full penetrations on DDs reliably. It doesn't have the rate of fire to be a strong DD killer, and it doesn't have the overwhelming burst damage that a Battleship can currently luck itself into. 280mm guns are technically Battleship guns, but only because the Scharnhorst carries them. They're noticeably weaker than even the Dunkerque's 340mm guns, let alone the 380mm guns of the Warspite or Bayern. A full penetration from a Graf Spee isn't nearly as devestating as a full penetration from a New Mexico or a Fuso for a DD.

I wasn't comparing Spee's accuracy to BBs by the way, but rather to other Cruisers. Even so, if she's just as accurate as other Cruisers 6 guns with a 20 second reload doesn't make her good at killing DDs reliably. She's an excellent Cruiser killer because Cruisers are larger targets and have Citadels.

Don't get me wrong, it's perfectly possible to slap DDs silly with the Graf Spee, but it's hardly "the most powerful DD killer in the game". Belfast's just one tier higher and absolutely demolishes DDs in a way the Spee could never hope to match. Tier 6 has Molotov with Donskoi's T9 railguns and Cleveland with a rain of HE that'll scour DDs away much better than the Spee.

I'll grant, I'm not sure what we're doing differently, but I tend to erase the DD in one shot. Granted, I do switch ammos, so I'm tending to hit it with explosive, but...

And we agree that she's a very good cruiser killer. I annihilate Belfasts with her, thanks to the repair consumable, adrenaline rush, and the surprising number of fires I can generate.

So I'm 2-12 in my games today, having had games like 170k in 9 minutes with 2M potential damage in the Minotaur and still losing.

How do you stay sane when the Chaos Gods invade and are on the enemy team?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So I'm 2-12 in my games today, having had games like 170k in 9 minutes with 2M potential damage in the Minotaur and still losing.

How do you stay sane when the Chaos Gods invade and are on the enemy team?

Its at that time when I just take a short break, or just play a different game.

While we're on the subject of frustrating losses:

2k exp on a loss, ouch man, ouch. You'd have gotten alot with a win there. I cant help but wonder what your CV was doing.

1 Air and 0 ship kills vs the Taiho's 15 and 2 ship kills

That would've been my first win of the day too. Generally had good games today, but that one stood out.

I can see why it would. Im still just thinking about the potential exp from a win in that round. It would have been what, around 5k?

Im assuming Premium, Flags and the Premium Camo or one of the other special ones.

Premium, HSF permacammo but no XP flags. If I'd had gone full tilt flags and won that id't be 30k+ XP easily.

Damn, is the HSF camo that much better than the standard Permacamo? I unlocked it, but I dont have the Yammy yet.

HSF Permacammo is the same as the normal one stats-wise, I just didn't have to pay for it.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
2k exp on a loss, ouch man, ouch. You'd have gotten alot with a win there. I cant help but wonder what your CV was doing.

1 Air and 0 ship kills vs the Taiho's 15 and 2 ship kills

Ouch... Seriously painful loss there.

And the CV, was likely in a corner of the map hiding!

Did they try to attack a large group of ships, fresh before the battle had degraded there AA abit?

I just one-upped myself. In a bad way.



The common denominator seems to be us having a CV player who's sub-par.

How does a CV player get to that tier, and still be so bad at playing CVs?

That would be like if I was playing CVs, cause I suck at it. Or when I first got to T10 because I used free exp to speed through.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
How does a CV player get to that tier, and still be so bad at playing CVs?

That would be like if I was playing CVs, cause I suck at it. Or when I first got to T10 because I used free exp to speed through.

The second option.

I wouldn't have minded playing against any of those 4 aircraft carriers

lol I realized that it was probably that case after I posted.

Luckily my skill has somewhat caught up with my race for T10.

So how do people feel about rank 10 and above being played at tier 10?

Personally not owning a tier10 and the closest one I have is the Essex, I'm not particularly thrilled about it (especially after Midway nerfs).

Might finally get to play a Cruiser in Ranked, T6 was Cleveland or go home and T8 was radar or Kutuzov, and I didn't own any of those (well, radar Edinburgh but come on). Zao should be good for DD sniping and being a good ship in general. I'd like to play Minotaur, but I suspect there's gonna be a lot of radar and not a lot of CVs (which in turn means more hydro), so that's not gonna happen.

I think its pretty strange that they are going 8-10-7 for the way its laid out.

I also think its pretty odd to make that jump and cut a potentially large number of players out, even if their previous statistics show that most people that play in Ranked have T10s open to them. I think one reason that it was mostly people that did have T10s is that they were generally more comfortable with the game play, but that could easily be different now. Loads of players are probably comfortable by now that still aren't T10. Some people work multiple lines and could not have a 10 because they are grinding everything.

We'll have to see how it goes, but hopefully they will go back to T7-8 for the next one. Because personally, I'm just not that comfortable in my T10s. A combo of being overly aggressive from time to time combined with teams that like to sit back and do nothing.


Plus Im not really sure in the Meta how the Hindenburg and Grosserkurfurst stack up.

Hinden's really good, it's a swiss-army-knife. It's not the best firestarter (that'd be Zao) or the best DPM (Minotaur) but it's good at most things; great HE, excellent AP, tanky in general and just a menace at all ranges.

Alright. Provided I get to Rank 10 (I've done rank maybe twice and think I got to Rank 11) I think i'll use the Hinden. I'd try the GK, but she's such a large target and I always get OPs or No Damage Crits with her.

If the meta is stationary I might just bring my Yamato, nothing discourages bow-camping like 460mm AP.

I recon at the very least there will be more than a few Conquerors in the meta. That heal, and the fires cant be underestimated in the lower ship count of Ranked.

I'm not sure Conq will be that good in Ranked, it bleeds HP like crazy when you can focus it. It's good when there's other ships to draw attention away from it, but it doesn't actually tank very well under sustained fire.

I guess it will all depend on the team itself.

My frustrating loss for the week.

Hey gang, I just got some free stuff for the game, and I don't play, so first come first serve:


Exclusive Flag and Camo
250 Doubloons
3 days of Premium Account time

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Cheers!