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 luke1705 wrote:
Have we ever come to a consensus on whether or not we can take 2 different houses in a single lance/super heavy detachment?

I don't want the house traits, but the house specific warlord traits and the relics for imperialis vs maechanicus definitely leave me wanting to take knights of two different houses in the same detachments, probably with an armiger.

I know I'm not getting CP, but I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere that this is possible. It'd be like running ultramarines and white scars in the same detachment.

Although....CRAP now that I think about it....I don't think they share any common keywords if I take one that is a mechanicus house and one that is an imperialis house :(

All I want is the relic flamer and the relic plasma gun in the same detachment!

From what I've seen, yes you can, just like other armies can. Example, you can have a Chaos Space Marines detachment with mixed legions in it, they won't get their Legion Tactics but will still unlock stratagems, warlord traits, relics, etc because it would still be a Chaos Space Marine detachment. The relevant page for Imperial Knights seems to have a "Imperial Knight detachments" wording so you should be good to go, and per your question, they do share the Imperial Knights faction keyword (can be seen in the new datasheets if you check a codex review). Honestly going that route seems like the best way forward for Knights if you're running a Lance and multiple different types of Knights, the Valiant and Castellan in particularly needing Imperialis and Mechanicus respectively for their weapon relics is a right pain. If I'm horribly wrong, someone please correct me!

Personally I'm trying to figure out whether going all-in on a Castellan/Valiant duo + one Questoris Knight is worthwhile, and whether having two Dominus and one Questoris Knight is better than having one Dominus and three Questoris Knights (all in the context of keeping points spare for a Guard battalion - can't fit two Dominus and two Questoris in with a Guard battalion).

 mrhappyface wrote:

Except the Helverin is disgustingly good and having 2 of them firing a total of 8d3 S7 shots re-rolling 1s and the Las Impulsor is no joke either. You could even throw on the relic fist and make him the house with +1 to hit to make your Precept even better.

Sorry, I just noticed this response. Disgustingly good? Have you done the math? Helverins are mediocre at best when compared to an Icarus Crawler or the vanilla BC Leman Russ. The Crawler doesn't even need to use a stratagem to outperform him against a variety of flying targets. Plus, they don't count in Knight Lances.

Bit of a question.

With knights now able to be characters, how does that affect targeting priorities?

 Irbis wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Is there any info on whether FW Knights get access to the new stuff? Could I make my Lancer a Freeblade for example?

From what I've heard the answer is "no" but there is probably going to be an errata to Imperial Armour released with the FAQ for the codex that changes this.

Don't worry, one week and FW surely will drop some FAQ written by intern in 10 minutes allowing all Knights with zero thought to balance or fluff. You know, like standard infiltration team of all RG descendants everywhere is pair of vewy vewy quiet, wabbit hunting Leviathans or how standard Codex company consists of six Fire Raptors with Chapter Master and lieutenant standing under them waving pom poms to cheer them up. Fluffy!

What? Both units are impossibly rare relics few chapters ever saw, never mind posses one? And the SM stratagems were written with Codex units in mind, not with whatever broken gak FW put together with 2+ across the board and suite of weapons making Baneblades blush? Who cares, we need to one-up Eldar and Tau somehow, making it all okay, eh?

If you want to see broken stuff look no further than GW codex. At least unlike GW Forge World has game designers who a) can write balanced stuff b) are interested in writing balanced stuff. GW? They make changes not for balance but for money.

If you want balanced 40k ban GW codex, allow only FW units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 drazz wrote:
Bit of a question.

With knights now able to be characters, how does that affect targeting priorities?

Doesn't. They have too many wounds for character protection to kick in.

Someone was talking about running Guilliman with a bunch of character knights. In that case it would matter as you could than shoot Papa Smurf.

 Eldarain wrote:
Someone was talking about running Guilliman with a bunch of character knights. In that case it would matter as you could than shoot Papa Smurf.

Can't do it in one detachment. I suppose you can do a SH Auxiliary Detachment for Guilliman.

Oh good point. Guess better to have armiger or helsinger or non-character regular knight there then.

edit: Except you only ignore other characters with W charasteristic less than 10. Character with 24W is NOT ignored.

If freeblades are by detachment and not army, was thinking of running:

SH detachment:
Gallant: House Krast
Gallant: House Krast
Warden: Warlord, Relic Avenger Gatling Gun, Freeblade

SH Aux:
Crusader: Freeblade

SH Aux:
Errant: Freeblade

urzaplanewalker wrote:
I'm thinking the following for 2k points: (purchase 2 extra relics)
House Taranis: super-heavy detachment
Castellan w/ 2 shoulder cannons (Warlord w/ 4++ and Cawl's Wrath)
Warden w/ 20 pt rocketpod (with fancy avenger)
Galliant (with fancy fist)

House Taranis: aux detachment
2 Warglaves

Mechanicus Graia: Battalion
2 enginseer
3 ranger units

Seems pretty good...

Why would you put the warglaives in an aux detachment? A SHD is 3-5 LOW slots and it's the same house so just put them in there, no? Otherwise that list seems like it could be pretty strong to me

Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

 drazz wrote:
Bit of a question.

With knights now able to be characters, how does that affect targeting priorities?

Not at all.

- Characters with 10 wounds or more can always be targeted, so people will be able to shoot your Knights as always.
- Characters with 10 wounds or more, however, do also shield other characters. Mortarion DOES prevent you from shooting a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince, a Hive Tyrant does prevent you from targeting a Broodlord, etc.. thus a Character-Knight will prevent targeting a Primaris Psyker or Company Commander just like a non-Character Knight would.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

Is the no Household thing confirmed or is that speculation based on Baneblades? Seems like it would take away a lot of the flavour of adding Knights to your army if they didnt get a household.

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

Yes. Screenshot showing relevant page was show few pages before. All knights.

A Super Heavy Detachment can fit up to five LoW slots, right? So just shove the armigers in that. You had the same House down anyway.

tneva82 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

Yes. Screenshot showing relevant page was show few pages before. All knights.

Yikes, that's a real bummer.

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

thats not correct. you get the household + stratagems if you use a super heavy aux.

you can even chose a household/chapter/dynasty for a aux support detach.

 _Ness wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

thats not correct. you get the household + stratagems if you use a super heavy aux.

you can even chose a household/chapter/dynasty for a aux support detach.

You don't get household tradition for super heavy auxiary detachment. Strategems are still usable but for example the "wounds doubled for degration" does not apply for superheavy auxiliary.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 drazz wrote:
Bit of a question.

With knights now able to be characters, how does that affect targeting priorities?

Not at all.

- Characters with 10 wounds or more can always be targeted, so people will be able to shoot your Knights as always.
- Characters with 10 wounds or more, however, do also shield other characters. Mortarion DOES prevent you from shooting a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince, a Hive Tyrant does prevent you from targeting a Broodlord, etc.. thus a Character-Knight will prevent targeting a Primaris Psyker or Company Commander just like a non-Character Knight would.

i believe this was changed in the big faq but characters get heroic intervention

tneva82 wrote:

 _Ness wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

thats not correct. you get the household + stratagems if you use a super heavy aux.

you can even chose a household/chapter/dynasty for a aux support detach.

You don't get household tradition for super heavy auxiary detachment. Strategems are still usable but for example the "wounds doubled for degration" does not apply for superheavy auxiliary.

yea i overlooked it, my bad.

well thats a bummer. guess they want to increase their sells on the warglaives. 2 bad. (it doesent even make sense)

If they wanted to increase sells on warglaives they would allow them for CP...

But it actually makes sense in that IG has same limit. Why knights would get but IG not? Whether IG restriction makes any sense is another thing of course. Personally both limitations should go away.

well they are allower for cp, just not in the Lance-Detach. a super heavy still gives you +3.

 _Ness wrote:
well they are allower for cp, just not in the Lance-Detach. a super heavy still gives you +3.

They won't get Household abilities if they do.

well f me. i thought a knight lance is a seperate detachment. so you have to pick 3biggies to get +3cp.
but you get the use household if you use 2 warglaives + 1 big (or 3 warglaives) ?!

 _Ness wrote:
well f me. i thought a knight lance is a seperate detachment. so you have to pick 3biggies to get +3cp.
but you get the use household if you use 2 warglaives + 1 big (or 3 warglaives) ?!

No. It is just a Super Heavy Detachment.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 _Ness wrote:
well f me. i thought a knight lance is a seperate detachment. so you have to pick 3biggies to get +3cp.
but you get the use household if you use 2 warglaives + 1 big (or 3 warglaives) ?!

No. It is just a Super Heavy Detachment.

so? its still a knight lance.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 drazz wrote:
Bit of a question.

With knights now able to be characters, how does that affect targeting priorities?

Not at all.

- Characters with 10 wounds or more can always be targeted, so people will be able to shoot your Knights as always.
- Characters with 10 wounds or more, however, do also shield other characters. Mortarion DOES prevent you from shooting a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince, a Hive Tyrant does prevent you from targeting a Broodlord, etc.. thus a Character-Knight will prevent targeting a Primaris Psyker or Company Commander just like a non-Character Knight would.

i believe this was changed in the big faq but characters get heroic intervention

Sunny is actually correct as per the big FAQ – which I didn’t realise until I saw his post and decided to check.

An enemy Character with a Wounds characteristic of less than 10 can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if it is both visible to the firing model and it is the closest enemy unit to the firing model. Ignore other enemy Characters with a Wounds characteristics of less than 10 when determining if the target is the closest enemy unit to the firing model.

This means that if any other enemy units (other than other Characters with a Wounds characteristics of less than 10) are closer, whether they are visible or not, then the enemy Character cannot be targeted

Due to Morty having more than 10 wounds, it means the new “characters can’t hide characters” rule is ignored in this instance.

I certainly have played this wrong when using Magnus recently!

 _Ness wrote:
well they are allower for cp, just not in the Lance-Detach. a super heavy still gives you +3.

Auxiliary gives 0. Knight lance doesn't look at all to be optional. So if you make it imperial knight(can you take knights and NOT have it imperial knight?) it's lance. If it's not imperial knights then no tradition, no strategems, nothing but 3 CP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 _Ness wrote:
well f me. i thought a knight lance is a seperate detachment. so you have to pick 3biggies to get +3cp.
but you get the use household if you use 2 warglaives + 1 big (or 3 warglaives) ?!

No. It is just a Super Heavy Detachment.

For that to work out they cannot be imperial knight detachment. apart from if that's even possible you are then ruling yourself out of traditions, strategems, warlord traits and relics for sake of 3CP.

hmmm.

lets sum it up.

warglaives = imperial knights.

a super heavy detach gets the household + lance rule.

the lance rule says that you only get the +3 cp if you use big knights.

so if i use 3 warglaives, i get no cp, but the household rules do apply.

 _Ness wrote:
hmmm.

lets sum it up.

warglaives = imperial knights.

a super heavy detach gets the household + lance rule.

the lance rule says that you only get the +3 cp if you use big knights.

so if i use 3 warglaives, i get no cp, but the household rules do apply.

Correct. 3 warglaives alone will be getting households, strategems etc. If the lance rule did not exclude character rule from warglaives(like strategem excludes) also character warglaive(would be only way to get them). But no CP.

The super heavy aux thingie doesn't bother me that much as it's already done but the CP restriction is really weird. I could understand not allowing for armiger only but big knight+smaller knights would seem sensible. And can't recall any other faction with similar rule.