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Hey guys

I thought I try something different with my new army list. Before we begin let’s talk about the parameters: It is not meant to be tournament winning army it’s more a friendly to fluffy list but with some serious bite as well…or so I hope maybe even just a proof of concept. I will be honest with you guys since 8th dropped I have some difficulties building my eldar (yes eldar eat it GW) lists. As always, I’m open to constructive criticism. It is meant to be a pure Biel-Tan Army so no other choice as Aspects made sense to me. Now enough with the introductions let’s see what we have here:




Craftworld Attribute: Biel-Tan: Swordwind

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [105 PL, 1985pts] ++

+ Flyer [10 PL, 210pts] +

Hemlock Wraithfighter: 4. Protect/Jinx, Spirit Stones


+ Dedicated Transport [27 PL, 413pts] +

Wave Serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Starcannon

Wave Serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon

Wave Serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon

+ Heavy Support [22 PL, 430pts] +

Fire Prism: Shuriken Cannon

Fire Prism: Shuriken Cannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 100pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher

+ HQ [15 PL, 275pts] +

Asurmen

Farseer: 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan, Witchblade


+ Elites [7 PL, 152pts] +

Striking Scorpions [7 PL, 152pts]
. 9x Striking Scorpion: 9x Scorpion Chainsword
. Striking Scorpion Exarch: Scorpion Chainsword, Scorpion's Claw


+ Fast Attack [6 PL, 133pts] +

Swooping Hawks [6 PL, 133pts]
. 9x Swooping Hawk: 9x Lasblaster
. Swooping Hawk Exarch: Hawk's Talon


+ Troops [18 PL, 372pts] +

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 124pts]
. 9x Dire Avenger: 9x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 124pts]
. 9x Dire Avenger: 9x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 124pts]
. 9x Dire Avenger: 9x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

++ Total: [105 PL, 1985pts] ++

That equals out to 1985 points at the moment which leaves some nice room to make some adjustments but before we get into that let’s talk strategy and my reasons for picking those units and, shockingly, no reapers or spears.

Strategy

All the Dire Avengers are set up in the serpents and the farseer and Asurmen are in the serpent with the starcannons. That gives me the possibility to either deploy the whole army on the battlefield or put one or two serpents in the clouds. Obviously, the Hawks and Scorpions are deep striking. The whole idea is basically to have the serpents either deep strike (50% rule has to be considered here) or zip up the board and unload their cargo. After doing so the whole army, maybe with or maybe without the prisms and the war walker, would stay together and form one big fast moving blob which rerolls all 1’s for their shuriken weapons has for the most part a 4++ is leadership 10 with the hawks around and can hose down anything inside their threat radius. Meanwhile the scorpions are able to harass the enemy backfield and charge some key support units. The idea is to use nearly 100 % of ones own army against only a fraction of the opponents and still be quite mobile.

The shuriken weapons (both with the avengers and the serpents) should hit most of the time thanks to rerolling those ones and hitting on threes and reasonable durable with their 4 ++ or 5++ for the hawks. For that reason, I felt it was unnecessary to have guide on the farseer and went with doom (for that extra tough target) and the always gratifying executioner. Also the farseer could then use his free “biel-tan guide” on the wave serpent with the star cannons to somewhat counter act the -1 penalty for moving. If something want’s to charge them then they have some fearsome overwatch and always the possibility for Asurmen to do his heroic stick.

FAQ

Why didn’t you use Reapers or Spears?

I don’t really think Reapers would fit the overall theme of the army as everything is always in constant motion. I do know that they always hit on 3’s but who knows if this will be the case after the march update. I could potentially reduce one unit of avengers to 5 and load up the reapers. As for the spears: I think they would fit very nicely into the list to be honest, but I just hate the current models and do not own any.

Why did you put the EML on the war walker?

For the pure versatility and I’m somewhat concerned about my anti-tank potential in this list. Could possibly be changed to laser lances which would free up some points as well.

Why did you put the Star Cannons on the serpent?

To combat that pesky multiple wounds models such as dreadnoughts and light tanks but I think lances would be too much.

Why did you choose to use such big units?

Mainly for the overwatch and combat “potential” and with leadership 10 I felt I could.


Considerations

As I said I’m not sure about the list’s ability to deal with tanks as I have only the war walker, the wraith fighter and the prisms. I’m also pretty low on CP which could potentially be fixed by moving the three heavy support choices into a separate detachment and including a warlock or possibly a spiritseer if the points allow for that. I’m also not sure about the double shuriken catapult on the exarchs which on the one hand does contribute quite nicely to the dakka but leaves them a bit more woundable if they should get charged. Maybe Diresword instead?

Conclusion

And here we have it folks as always I’m intereste

The list seems fun, I do think it will "work," and I do think it could have some teeth. I would make a few suggestions though, I think these keep to the spirit of the list, improve it drastically, and continues to stay away from the super cheesy units. My main concern lies with the three units of dire avengers in wave serpents, its a huge points sink and I just don't think serpents are great right now, they are expensive, don't put out much hurt, and with asurmen's 4++ you don't need there protection. Drop the wave serpents, dire avengers, war walker, spirit stones on the hemlock, and shuriken cannons on the fire prisms. With those points you get two 20-man blobs of guardian defenders that you webway strike in, 80 shuriken shots re rolling 1's for biel-tan coming in by surprise. You then get two 10-man units of dire avengers, basic kit out, to surround asurmen as another 20-man blob moving up the center of the board on foot, all re rolling hits and with a 4++. You purchase a second hemlock and a third fire prism to completely shore up your anti-tank and make better use of the linked fire stratagem (all the prisms just go with twin shuriken catapults, no spirit stones on the hemlocks). You have exactly five points left over, the list is still pure biel-tan in a way that is both fluffy and deadly, and I think that list could actually wreck face. You actually have 15 points left over in this scenario as well, I'd add a shuriken cannon platform to one of the guardian blobs for wound allocation and a better armor save. It would look like this, 2000 points on the nose:


Battalion Detachment 6 CP

<Battalion – Biel-Tan>
HQ – Asurmen
HQ – Farseer w/ Witch Staff & Faolchu’s Wing (Guide/Doom)

Troops – 10x Dire Avengers
Troops – 10x Dire Avengers

Troops – 20x Guardian Defenders
Troops – 20x Guardian Defenders w/ Shuriken Cannon Platform

Elites – 10x Striking Scorpions w/ Scorpion’s Claw

Fast Attack – 10x Swooping Hawks w/ Hawk’s Talon

Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults

Flyer – Hemlock Wraithfighter (Protect)
Flyer – Hemlock Wraithfighter (Jinx)



Although I think this list is even better: drop the shuriken cannon platform, scorpion's claw, and hawk's talon, add a basic warlock, give him conceal, run the three fire prisms and two hemlocks as an alaitoc detachment for -1 to hit, give conceal to the lead fire prism for -2 to hit, keep the others out of LoS fir linked fire, and the hemlocks will now have native -2 to hit thanks to alaitoc plus hard to hit.



Battalion & Spearhead Detachments 7 CP

<Battalion – Biel-Tan>
HQ – Asurmen
HQ – Farseer w/ Witch Staff & Faolchu’s Wing (Guide/Doom)

Troops – 10x Dire Avengers
Troops – 10x Dire Avengers

Troops – 20x Guardian Defenders
Troops – 20x Guardian Defenders

Elites – 10x Striking Scorpions

Fast Attack – 10x Swooping Hawks

<Spearhead – Alaitoc>
HQ – Warlock w/ Witch Sword (Conceal)

Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults

Flyer – Hemlock Wraithfighter 200 (Protect)
Flyer – Hemlock Wraithfighter 200 (Jinx)

 peteralmo wrote:
Drop the wave serpents, dire avengers, war walker, spirit stones on the hemlock

Small thing, but you can't drop the stones on the hemlock, they're part of the basic wargear (it's cleared up in the codex FAQ).

I agree it lacks anti-tank, and also that putting all the DA in WS isn't the best way to take advantage of Asurem's aura. But I don't really know how to take full advantage of it. Footslogging DA are going to die too quickly, and before they get in range to do anything useful.
And I'm not a big fan of guardians for Biel-tan. They should focus more on aspects.

You could probably drop the scorpions (which aren't very good) and the WW for more anti-tank (a 3rd prism or a flyer), or put bright lances on the WW.

I agree it lacks anti-tank, and also that putting all the DA in WS isn't the best way to take advantage of Asurem's aura. But I don't really know how to take full advantage of it. Footslogging DA are going to die too quickly, and before they get in range to do anything useful.
And I'm not a big fan of guardians for Biel-tan. They should focus more on aspects.

Going to have to disagree a bit on this point. 20 Dire Avengers with a 4++ are going to be pretty survivable, and battle focus plus 18" avenger shuriken catapults means they'll be in range to fire turn 1. Also, guardians fire shuriken catapults, Biel-Tan gives them re rolls to 1's, they're a great fit in biel-tan.

Thank you both for your quick and honest replies.

My main concern lies with the three units of dire avengers in wave serpents, its a huge points sink and I just don't think serpents are great right now, they are expensive, don't put out much hurt, and with asurmen's 4++ you don't need there protection.

It’s quite interesting that you think so as I thought that would be the strongest part of the list. Maybe not tho as I haven’t had much luck with the serpents this edition now that I think about it. I really could just get another fire prism and in fact even own three. The original idea was to cloudstrike all the serpents but then I remembered the 50 % rule which kinda stopped that dead in the tracks.

And I'm not a big fan of guardians for Biel-tan. They should focus more on aspects.

Also, guardians fire shuriken catapults, Biel-Tan gives them re rolls to 1's, they're a great fit in biel-tan.

I think he means from a fluff perspective and he’s right about that…. Biel-Tan doesn’t really use guardians and relies almost exclusively on aspect warriors. Incidentally they also get buffed quite nicely with asurmen. But you are correct the current rules for Biel-Tan seems to favour Guardians more than Aspect Warriors which is a real shame. Maybe they should change the rule to rerolling ones only for aspect warriors. I’m still contemplating whether or not I should swap the scorpions for that delicious shining spears.

Tahnir wrote:
Thank you both for your quick and honest replies.

My main concern lies with the three units of dire avengers in wave serpents, its a huge points sink and I just don't think serpents are great right now, they are expensive, don't put out much hurt, and with asurmen's 4++ you don't need there protection.

It’s quite interesting that you think so as I thought that would be the strongest part of the list. Maybe not tho as I haven’t had much luck with the serpents this edition now that I think about it. I really could just get another fire prism and in fact even own three. The original idea was to cloudstrike all the serpents but then I remembered the 50 % rule which kinda stopped that dead in the tracks.

And I'm not a big fan of guardians for Biel-tan. They should focus more on aspects.

Also, guardians fire shuriken catapults, Biel-Tan gives them re rolls to 1's, they're a great fit in biel-tan.

I think he means from a fluff perspective and he’s right about that…. Biel-Tan doesn’t really use guardians and relies almost exclusively on aspect warriors. Incidentally they also get buffed quite nicely with asurmen. But you are correct the current rules for Biel-Tan seems to favour Guardians more than Aspect Warriors which is a real shame. Maybe they should change the rule to rerolling ones only for aspect warriors. I’m still contemplating whether or not I should swap the scorpions for that delicious shining spears.

If you're playing purely for fluff, then yes, I get it, guardians in biel-tan? Doesn't fit. Unfortunately the craftworld attribute allows all shuriken weapons to re roll ones, not just aspects, and guardians are 3+ BS, have basically the same gun as a dire avenger, are only 8 points a model, and crucially, can be fielded in blobs of 20, then webway struck. As I said before, 40 guardians appearing putting 80 shuriken shots into anything, re rolling ones, especially if you doomed the target first, basically kills anything. I've seen this move drop morty, magnus, knights, etc. But I can appreciate if you don't like the way it makes you feel fluff wise lol. Again, that third prism and second hemlock really bring your anti-tank into good order. But strongly consider my advice to put them into an alaitoc detachment, two hemlocks at -2 to hit them is going to force your opponent to dedicate a lot of fire power to them, thus leaving your 20 dire avengers unmolested. Here's a mock list that drops the weaker aspects for spears, this list, I would say, is pretty competitive actually. Notice that rather with going for two 10 man squads of avengers to surround asurmen with, I went with 4 squads of 5, the battalion allows for it and it's basically two additional free exarchs, might as well.


Battalion & Spearhead Detachments 7 CP

<Battalion – Biel-Tan>
HQ – Asurmen
HQ – Farseer w/ Witch Staff & Faolchu’s Wing (Guide/Doom)

Troops – 5x Dire Avengers
Troops – 5x Dire Avengers
Troops – 5x Dire Avengers
Troops – 5x Dire Avengers

Troops – 20x Guardian Defenders
Troops – 20x Guardian Defenders w/ Shuriken Cannon Platform

Fast Attack – 8x Shining Spears w/ Star Lance

<Spearhead – Alaitoc>
HQ – Warlock w/ Witch Sword (Conceal)

Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults

Flyer – Hemlock Wraithfighter (Protect)
Flyer – Hemlock Wraithfighter (Quicken)



For this list you'll want to quicken the spears for a double move on turn 1, and also use protect on them, gives them a 3++ against shooting attacks, the lead prism gets conceal for -2 to hit, and try and doom whatever target the guardians are going to be pouring into, re rolling wounds will net a lot of -3 ap wounds from the shuriken catapults. Guide can go a few places, but I like it on the spears since they want that potency in both the shooting and combat phases, it's also why I give the farseer wings relic, it allows him to shoot up the board and stay in range of the spears, as well as get doom off on the guardian target.

Battalion & Spearhead Detachments 7 CP

<Battalion – Biel-Tan>
HQ – Asurmen
HQ – Farseer w/ Witch Staff & Spirit Stone of Anath'lan (Guide/Doom)
HQ -- Warlock w/ Witch Blade (Quicken)

Troops – 10x Dire Avengers
Troops – 5x Dire Avengers
Troops – 5x Dire Avengers

Troops – 20x Guardian Defenders

Elites -- 7 Fire Dragons

Fast Attack – 10x Swooping Hawks
Fast Attack -- 6 Shining Spears (Exarch w/ Star lance)

<Spearhead – Alaitoc>
HQ – Warlock w/ Witch Sword (Conceal)


Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults

Flyer – Hemlock Wraithfighter 200 (Protect)
Flyer – Hemlock Wraithfighter 200 (Jinx)

 Helvost wrote:
Battalion & Spearhead Detachments 7 CP

<Battalion – Biel-Tan>
HQ – Asurmen
HQ – Farseer w/ Witch Staff & Spirit Stone of Anath'lan (Guide/Doom)
HQ -- Warlock w/ Witch Blade (Quicken)

Troops – 10x Dire Avengers
Troops – 5x Dire Avengers
Troops – 5x Dire Avengers

Troops – 20x Guardian Defenders

Elites -- 7 Fire Dragons

Fast Attack – 10x Swooping Hawks
Fast Attack -- 6 Shining Spears (Exarch w/ Star lance)

<Spearhead – Alaitoc>
HQ – Warlock w/ Witch Sword (Conceal)


Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Twin-Shuriken Catapults

Flyer – Hemlock Wraithfighter 200 (Protect)
Flyer – Hemlock Wraithfighter 200 (Jinx)

Two things:
1) He mentioned in his original post he is attempting to play a pure Biel-Tan army that is not meant to be a tournament winning list. Advocating an Alaitoc detachment is just min/maxing here...
2) Hemlocks can only cast the Malediction portion of psychic abilities so Protect cannot be manifested.

The alaitoc detachment is copy and pasted from the OP's list. It is the less fluffy and more effective version of the list.