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I picked up a Tzeentch Daemons starter set and I was wondering what units were good in both games?

I’m interested in Thousand Sons/Daemons of Tzeentch for 40k and Disciples of Tzeentch for AOS.

Any input would be awesome.

Tzaangor Enlightened with the bows are very good in both systems, I know. I've heard that the Lord of Change is really good in Sigmar but it's a gorgeous paperweight in 40k. I'm otherwise unfamiliar with the Sigmar meta, so I can just tell you that in 40k for a Tzeentch Daemonkin list some other "must take" units would be Ahriman, the Thousand Sons daemon prince, and pink/brimstone horrors (not blues).

Don’t you have to go with Blues to get Brimstones?

Also, is it true that Tzaangors are better than Rubric Units?

Horrors have a special rule where when a bigger horror dies you can replace it with a smaller one, though I don't recommend doing this. You can also just deploy brimstones on the table normally. Unfortunately blues and brimstones come in the same box, though I guess you could convert the blues into more brimstones.

Tzaangors are straight up better than Rubrics, yes. Thousand Sons are a very synergy-based army that relies on stacking buffs until a unit becomes horrifyingly strong, and Tzaangors can take every buff Rubrics can, and also be buffed by the Mutalith Vortex Beast, and also have the Cycle of Slaughter stratagem. Jury is still out on if Tzaangors are competitive with the other tippity top tier assault units like bloodletters but in the context of the Thousand Sons codex they're definitely the best troop.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Tzaangors are straight up better than Rubrics, yes. Thousand Sons are a very synergy-based army that relies on stacking buffs until a unit becomes horrifyingly strong, and Tzaangors can take every buff Rubrics can, and also be buffed by the Mutalith Vortex Beast, and also have the Cycle of Slaughter stratagem. Jury is still out on if Tzaangors are competitive with the other tippity top tier assault units like bloodletters but in the context of the Thousand Sons codex they're definitely the best troop.

That's like your opinion, man.

Tzaangors are great when you spend all your points buffing them.

Also, is it true that Tzaangors are better than Rubric Units?

One is melee. One is ranged. Don't overdo it on Rubrics, make sure you have a screen, and you'll be fine.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Tzaangors are straight up better than Rubrics, yes. Thousand Sons are a very synergy-based army that relies on stacking buffs until a unit becomes horrifyingly strong, and Tzaangors can take every buff Rubrics can, and also be buffed by the Mutalith Vortex Beast, and also have the Cycle of Slaughter stratagem. Jury is still out on if Tzaangors are competitive with the other tippity top tier assault units like bloodletters but in the context of the Thousand Sons codex they're definitely the best troop.

That's like your opinion, man.

Tzaangors are great when you spend all your points buffing them.

Also, is it true that Tzaangors are better than Rubric Units?

One is melee. One is ranged. Don't overdo it on Rubrics, make sure you have a screen, and you'll be fine.

That is just as much hyperbole as the rubric haters use. Tzaangors are a very capable unit with or without buffs. Just as rubrics are fully capable, The problem lies within point costs not the actual units. Rubrics are to expensive and no one is going to deny that while Tzaangors are properly priced.

I use a 20 man unit of gors and often I find myself buffing my enlightened instead to much better results. But even if they are not buffed they still perform and will always make points back at the minimum. Sure a bloodletter bomb will have more punch on charge, but if the charged unit survives then the value of those bloodletters drops heavily where as gors are always tough and punchy.

Both can work. Both do work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Tzaangor Enlightened with the bows are very good in both systems, I know. I've heard that the Lord of Change is really good in Sigmar but it's a gorgeous paperweight in 40k. I'm otherwise unfamiliar with the Sigmar meta, so I can just tell you that in 40k for a Tzeentch Daemonkin list some other "must take" units would be Ahriman, the Thousand Sons daemon prince, and pink/brimstone horrors (not blues).

While enlighted are demons in the sense of keywords they are not Tz demons proper for faction keyword. This is very important and I feel should not be brought up in the same convo as proper Tz demons.

So, OP. You are fortunate that all your choices for demons are good with Tzeentch. Horrors can make for a good shooting blob with the occasional smite. Flamers are great when facing horde armies. Screamers are very mobile and fast and pack a heavy punch. The chariot is the only suspect model in that box because of the point cost being to high for what it does. You can use the exalted flamer that rides it on foot as a elite slot char and can hide behind other demons. But alas, like the chariot he seems to be 10-15 points to expensive. I would put a herald on the chariot and use him to escort your screamers while putting them at str 7.

From here you will want to get another box of horrors at the minimum and one box each of flamers and screamers. It really is a good box.

This is from a 40k perspective and you will have to query a AoS player to find the status in that game.

Table wrote:


That is just as much hyperbole as the rubric haters use. Tzaangors are a very capable unit with or without buffs. Just as rubrics are fully capable, The problem lies within point costs not the actual units. Rubrics are to expensive and no one is going to deny that while Tzaangors are properly priced.

I use a 20 man unit of gors and often I find myself buffing my enlightened instead to much better results. But even if they are not buffed they still perform and will always make points back at the minimum. Sure a bloodletter bomb will have more punch on charge, but if the charged unit survives then the value of those bloodletters drops heavily where as gors are always tough and punchy.

Both can work. Both do work.

You mistake my comment. I am in no way saying gors are bad. My problem is when people call rubrics worse when they couch it in all the tzaangor buffs. I never leave home without gors.

Table wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Tzaangor Enlightened with the bows are very good in both systems, I know. I've heard that the Lord of Change is really good in Sigmar but it's a gorgeous paperweight in 40k. I'm otherwise unfamiliar with the Sigmar meta, so I can just tell you that in 40k for a Tzeentch Daemonkin list some other "must take" units would be Ahriman, the Thousand Sons daemon prince, and pink/brimstone horrors (not blues).

While enlighted are demons in the sense of keywords they are not Tz demons proper for faction keyword. This is very important and I feel should not be brought up in the same convo as proper Tz demons.

The OP was looking to play an army that combines Thousand Sons and Tzeentch Daemons together; I tend to refer to this type of army as a "daemonkin" force in reference to 7th's Khorne Daemonkin, though I can see why that could cause confusion.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Table wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Tzaangor Enlightened with the bows are very good in both systems, I know. I've heard that the Lord of Change is really good in Sigmar but it's a gorgeous paperweight in 40k. I'm otherwise unfamiliar with the Sigmar meta, so I can just tell you that in 40k for a Tzeentch Daemonkin list some other "must take" units would be Ahriman, the Thousand Sons daemon prince, and pink/brimstone horrors (not blues).

While enlighted are demons in the sense of keywords they are not Tz demons proper for faction keyword. This is very important and I feel should not be brought up in the same convo as proper Tz demons.

The OP was looking to play an army that combines Thousand Sons and Tzeentch Daemons together; I tend to refer to this type of army as a "daemonkin" force in reference to 7th's Khorne Daemonkin, though I can see why that could cause confusion.

I would agree with you but the distinction needs to be made because Chaos Demon stratagems will not work with 1ksons models, demons or not. Which is kinda lame but I guess they were afraid of deep striking primarchs. But considering the current state of the meta I do not see DSing Man-gus and Morty as such a horrific thing.

I’m considering Tzeentch Daemons as a main force and Skeksis/Goat People as an addition for their awesome minis. Not really a fan of the Rubric Minis.

Puscifer wrote:
I’m considering Tzeentch Daemons as a main force and Skeksis/Goat People as an addition for their awesome minis. Not really a fan of the Rubric Minis.

Well then you are in luck. We have goats coming out our ears over here in 40k! You will need to nab a HQ or two from the 1ksons faction in order to bring a allied detachment meaning you either go with demon princes (a solid if not expensive choice) or a rubric like HQ. But other than that it is clear sailing. Like I said before. Your next purchases should be a another box of pink horrors to make one unit but depending on what detachments you take you may need more. If you just need to fill a troop slot then grab the blue horrors box's as they come with cheap filler models. After your troop situation is under control you should invest in another box of screamers and flamers bringing those units up to 6 each. At this point look at another HQ, I would suggest a Lord of Change with impossible robes. Be sure to play with the burning chariot before you commit to buying more of those.

Good luck!

Table wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I’m considering Tzeentch Daemons as a main force and Skeksis/Goat People as an addition for their awesome minis. Not really a fan of the Rubric Minis.

Well then you are in luck. We have goats coming out our ears over here in 40k! You will need to nab a HQ or two from the 1ksons faction in order to bring a allied detachment meaning you either go with demon princes (a solid if not expensive choice) or a rubric like HQ. But other than that it is clear sailing. Like I said before. Your next purchases should be a another box of pink horrors to make one unit but depending on what detachments you take you may need more. If you just need to fill a troop slot then grab the blue horrors box's as they come with cheap filler models. After your troop situation is under control you should invest in another box of screamers and flamers bringing those units up to 6 each. At this point look at another HQ, I would suggest a Lord of Change with impossible robes. Be sure to play with the burning chariot before you commit to buying more of those.

Good luck!

Many thanks.

I intend to get another starter kit as it’s just insane value compared to getting the boxes separately. The only mediocre mini in there is the chariot from what I’ve been told, but you can easily turn the chariot kit into:

Herald on Disc or a Herald.
Exalted Flamer.
Two more Screamers.

Or just build one of the chariots.