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The prepaints were quite good but they’re not going back to them because there’s no way to make them work again. The industry that enabled prepaints at a marketable price went away with China’s economic growth. That’s why the game was dropped in the first place and why it’s returning in this form.

I thought the reason the game went away was because someone bought the movie rights to the game and for whatever reason, they couldn't talk about the game anymore. There was a moment there when the movie was going to happen with Tim Burton helming it, but then Pacific Rim happened (and bombed). Actually, it's kind of ironic that they are going up against the Pacific Rim kickstarter because PR has been competing with MonPoc for years.

The more I think about this game, the more excited I become. I'm wary of some of the changes, but I'm not against them, and I've never been one of those "change bad" complainers that just want the old game, but better and free. I loved the game (still do), but recognize that there's absolutely no way that blind buys or prepaints would work in today's market

I feel like the game died at a really inopportune time. They were in the middle of making a bunch of new factions that were pretty cool, but it was kind of crumbling under its own weight. Too many different exclusive products that made it difficult to collect or care about (buy this map pack to get this building, this model is super rare and only found in one of ten blind packs, limited edition mega form pack, look ma! Voltron). It was just really, really difficult to get exactly the game you wanted without going through a lot of cash and a lot of money. This is a game a lot of people still remember fondly today, but one which made every terrible decision in the book back in the day.

With a better format and more stuff like the transformable monsters from Series 3, the game could've really been amazing. But the way the game was distributed just killed the game for a lot of people. I'm hoping that this second chance gives them the opportunity to make the game what it should've been in the first place.

The game died in the same age as every other prepaint game. Heroscape, Heroclix (it got better, but it was dead), DnD minis, SW minis, World of Warcraft had a game among others. They all died because the cost of production skyrocketed.

The industry itself was built around systems that could be marketed to big volume stores. This meant they had to maintain a very low SKU count with the SKUs themselves having to make pretty decent sale numbers. That was the big draw of blind purchase; Wal-Mart was only stocking 1 SKU at a time.

It was also more or less required to make the pre-painted plastic affordable. Since everything sold in the same amounts from a retail perspective, you didn't invest a ton of cash into a dud model that tanked the business. (Heroscape actually had a huge problem because of the packs of unique hero figures, fwiw).

Ultimately, all those games died because the market couldn't make them profitable. Nobody really said anything because no one wants to hear "we won't make this thing you want because we can't make any money selling it to you at the price you'll tolerate." Instead, everyone just kind of found ways to make the most out of what they'd already invested (DnD notably turned into unpainted board games like Raveloft) and moved on to other ventures.

 LunarSol wrote:
The game died in the same age as every other prepaint game. Heroscape, Heroclix (it got better, but it was dead), DnD minis, SW minis, World of Warcraft had a game among others. They all died because the cost of production skyrocketed.

The industry itself was built around systems that could be marketed to big volume stores. This meant they had to maintain a very low SKU count with the SKUs themselves having to make pretty decent sale numbers. That was the big draw of blind purchase; Wal-Mart was only stocking 1 SKU at a time.

It was also more or less required to make the pre-painted plastic affordable. Since everything sold in the same amounts from a retail perspective, you didn't invest a ton of cash into a dud model that tanked the business. (Heroscape actually had a huge problem because of the packs of unique hero figures, fwiw).

Ultimately, all those games died because the market couldn't make them profitable. Nobody really said anything because no one wants to hear "we won't make this thing you want because we can't make any money selling it to you at the price you'll tolerate." Instead, everyone just kind of found ways to make the most out of what they'd already invested (DnD notably turned into unpainted board games like Raveloft) and moved on to other ventures.

Interesting insights...

Maybe it's time to start production in India?

While I'm sure that MonPoc was probably dying (Series 5 was increasingly promo desperate and hard to find), they were showing images of Series 6 figures (never released) right up until they announced the movie rights being bought. After that, all communication just completely shut down. The website was only updated once afterwards and I don't think PP even mentioned it in passing again (until today). I have to assume that they would've at least released Series 6 in some format, given that it was largely finished, even if it meant a smaller, more expensive run.

Great to see this come back. Still play it on and off - even got a few new converts. After all this time it's a bit much to expect the old models/rules to be street legal but those new demos look good.

Looking forward to seeing the new versions of the other factions.

 Sqorgar wrote:
While I'm sure that MonPoc was probably dying (Series 5 was increasingly promo desperate and hard to find), they were showing images of Series 6 figures (never released) right up until they announced the movie rights being bought. After that, all communication just completely shut down. The website was only updated once afterwards and I don't think PP even mentioned it in passing again (until today). I have to assume that they would've at least released Series 6 in some format, given that it was largely finished, even if it meant a smaller, more expensive run.

They could have at least given us the stats and let us proxy so we could play the full 2nd wave factions.

 Alpharius wrote:


And I disagree with the sentiment that the new sizing means you can't use your old models - the pic they show seems to indicate that the difference isn't all that great.

If the game is largely the same, it's played on a grid with no LOS rules. A half inch height difference in models is meaningless. Making old models illegal has nothing to do with their functionality, they just want veterans to re-buy everything, simple as that. One final middle finger to the game's most loyal customers.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
While I'm sure that MonPoc was probably dying (Series 5 was increasingly promo desperate and hard to find), they were showing images of Series 6 figures (never released) right up until they announced the movie rights being bought. After that, all communication just completely shut down. The website was only updated once afterwards and I don't think PP even mentioned it in passing again (until today). I have to assume that they would've at least released Series 6 in some format, given that it was largely finished, even if it meant a smaller, more expensive run.

They could have at least given us the stats and let us proxy so we could play the full 2nd wave factions.

 Alpharius wrote:


And I disagree with the sentiment that the new sizing means you can't use your old models - the pic they show seems to indicate that the difference isn't all that great.

If the game is largely the same, it's played on a grid with no LOS rules. A half inch height difference in models is meaningless. Making old models illegal has nothing to do with their functionality, they just want veterans to re-buy everything, simple as that. One final middle finger to the game's most loyal customers.

This was posted by one of the sculptors on boardgamegeek: "AS to the actual ingame issues with the older models, I can only conjecture that, while I've been told the new rules are very much based on the originals (streamlined and updated)there may be issues with model size when it comes to true line of sight etc. We've been upscaling most of the designs so far (between 15 and 35% depending on the model) This is conjecture on my part based on conversations where I got the impression it's moving slightly away from the more boardgame like aspects towards a more tabletop type affair, something like 2nd edition EPIC."

 Sqorgar wrote:
I thought the reason the game went away was because someone bought the movie rights to the game and for whatever reason, they couldn't talk about the game anymore. There was a moment there when the movie was going to happen with Tim Burton helming it, but then Pacific Rim happened (and bombed).

Pacific Rim bombed?

 Nurglitch wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I thought the reason the game went away was because someone bought the movie rights to the game and for whatever reason, they couldn't talk about the game anymore. There was a moment there when the movie was going to happen with Tim Burton helming it, but then Pacific Rim happened (and bombed).

Pacific Rim bombed?

I guess it just about broke even with intl. earnings. But yeah, shy of 200 Million to make + usually a huge chunk of cash for advertising for an effects-heavy blockbusters. Made 100 Million US domestic and another 300 Million overseas. Very roughly half of its box office earnings go back to the studio as a rule of thumb.

I am definitely open to this, but not sure about the sculpts shown so far. They do look a bit more detailed than the originals, but not sure if it's worth needing to do all the prep to them!

Tangent, but for Kaiju-smashing fans, there's a pretty great video game version of this concept that just came out:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/590380/Into_the_Breach/

Graphics are nothing to write home about, but the developers are award winners and put years into their first game (Faster than Light) and now this one. Just thought I'd share

Oooh...I love 2nd edition Epic (Space Marine? Titan Legions?)!

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I thought the reason the game went away was because someone bought the movie rights to the game and for whatever reason, they couldn't talk about the game anymore. There was a moment there when the movie was going to happen with Tim Burton helming it, but then Pacific Rim happened (and bombed).

Pacific Rim bombed?

I guess it just about broke even with intl. earnings. But yeah, shy of 200 Million to make + usually a huge chunk of cash for advertising for an effects-heavy blockbusters. Made 100 Million US domestic and another 300 Million overseas. Very roughly half of its box office earnings go back to the studio as a rule of thumb.

Apparently the new movie isn't trending well... https://screenrant.com/pacific-rim-uprising-box-office-predictions/

Pacific Rim 2 didn't need to happen, and the trailers don't excite me thus far.

Into the Breach is great. It's very much roguelike (prepare to die, lots) but the way it's all tied together is so very satisfying.

Weird to hear that about Pacific Rim. I would have thought it was more successful. Still, making $400m+ for $200m- doesn't seem like a bomb to me. It was good enough that they made a sequel.

Although... The bits I like best about the movie emphasise the size and weight, like the racheting noise inside the Gipsy Danger when it's drawing back to punch. The soundtrack is killer though.

Hearing that "monpoc is back" first filled me with excitement and fury. Finally!! After all these years!

The change in models and such is more of a "well ok" sort of situation, though, so on balance I'm interested in seeing how this all shakes out but I'll withold the fist pumping for now. It'll be worth it if the base game ends up better and maybe this means I can snag some of the old stuff for cheap on ebay.

Rosebuddy wrote:
Hearing that "monpoc is back" first filled me with excitement and fury. Finally!! After all these years!

The change in models and such is more of a "well ok" sort of situation, though, so on balance I'm interested in seeing how this all shakes out but I'll withold the fist pumping for now. It'll be worth it if the base game ends up better and maybe this means I can snag some of the old stuff for cheap on ebay.

Change to models is to compete with todays industry standard.

Don't see the point of getting old stuff on ebay, if the new models are better and bigger.

This is cool news though. A buddy had whole tubs full of this stuff and we enjoyed it when it was a game.

 Sqorgar wrote:
While I'm sure that MonPoc was probably dying (Series 5 was increasingly promo desperate and hard to find), they were showing images of Series 6 figures (never released) right up until they announced the movie rights being bought. After that, all communication just completely shut down. The website was only updated once afterwards and I don't think PP even mentioned it in passing again (until today). I have to assume that they would've at least released Series 6 in some format, given that it was largely finished, even if it meant a smaller, more expensive run.

The issue was more a question of how expensive. From what I've heard, between the cost of oil skyrocketing (which affected both shipping costs and the cost of plastic_, the dollar plummeting (this was in the wake of the housing crisis), and China's labor force suddenly getting paid like real people, the production costs of prepaints were something like 7x what they'd been prior. At that production cost, nobody could selling models profitably to larger retailers, which was needed to place orders large enough to get the cost even that low. It was an industry built on hitting the bottom rungs of critical mass and as soon as that bar was raised, crumpled pretty hard. Since there's so much production time (which is why they died in 2010 and not right away in 2008) a lot of companies kept working on things for a bit in case the market returned, but as I've heard it, as soon as they got the quotes for the production costs it was pretty much over.

I'm in.

Also really just wanting to know if they still get to put Voltron in it, like in 1st Ed.

Probably not going to get Morphers right away, but I've got hope. I'd love to see Voltron, though I'm guessing the license is harder to pick up these days.

I always wanted to try and get into this, but never had the people to play it with. Now it's paintable, I might be able to get GW people to join me in playing it, as it looked fun!

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Pacific Rim 2 didn't need to happen, and the trailers don't excite me thus far.

Are you an 8 to 12 year old boy?
My son who is 8 is flipping out over the sequel and it looks nothing short of amazing for him.
Perhaps you might not be the target demographic?

If the movie is getting a sequel, it's quite obvious that it made enough money. While it might not have made huge numbers in the box office, the DVD, digital and Blu-ray sales probably added a huge chunk of revenue.

I can't help but think that this announcement was put together in haste after the new PR trailer was released an River Horses Pacific Rim miniatures game. It's far to seridipitous to ignore.
That said, I have a kid who is a huge Godzilla and Kaiju fan. I'll be taking a look at it for sure.

 Ghool wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Pacific Rim 2 didn't need to happen, and the trailers don't excite me thus far.

Are you an 8 to 12 year old boy?
My son who is 8 is flipping out over the sequel and it looks nothing short of amazing for him.
Perhaps you might not be the target demographic?

Considering it's PG-13 rated, 8-12 might not be their target demographic either.

In any event, just presenting my opinion, which is allowed on a discussion forum, right?

 Ghool wrote:

Are you an 8 to 12 year old boy?
My son who is 8 is flipping out over the sequel and it looks nothing short of amazing for him.
Perhaps you might not be the target demographic?.

To this day, whenever I think of the original I just remember the conversation leaving the film that reminded me how wildly different my expectations of the film were compared to the average movie-goer. Basically, my buddy walking out asked me, "if they had that giant sword the whole time, why didn't they just use it from the beginning?" I'm not sure I've responded to this day, so bewildered am I to the confusion of ideas that would lead to such a question.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Making old models illegal has nothing to do with their functionality, they just want veterans to re-buy everything, simple as that. One final middle finger to the game's most loyal customers.

I am not sure if it is spite or if that would be ascribing actual competence, but if they are making new sculpts, why not make new characters so veterans would at least have completion to drive interest? It isn't like the originals are some lucrative IP that they can't pass up.

While I understand that scaling up the new miniatures apears to be a greedy move, well GW does it too ...look at old Death Guard vs new Death Guard...

But at least GW doesnt ban old miniatures from official events.

str00dles1 wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
Hearing that "monpoc is back" first filled me with excitement and fury. Finally!! After all these years!

The change in models and such is more of a "well ok" sort of situation, though, so on balance I'm interested in seeing how this all shakes out but I'll withold the fist pumping for now. It'll be worth it if the base game ends up better and maybe this means I can snag some of the old stuff for cheap on ebay.

Change to models is to compete with todays industry standard.

Don't see the point of getting old stuff on ebay, if the new models are better and bigger.

This is cool news though. A buddy had whole tubs full of this stuff and we enjoyed it when it was a game.

I did say "for cheap". Second-hand models for a now unsupported game are probably going to cost a fair bit less than brand new models for a brand new game. If I don't end up thinking that the new version is worth the new investment, I might be able to pick up lots or whatever that people are remembering to sell now that the name gets hype again.

They are rebooting the a game that has been dead for a long time. Those of us that still have their collection (and intend to keep it despite the reboot) must be relatively small, and the policy against using the old models strikes me more to combat the idea that someone could buy a complete collection off eBay for cheap. They can't stop the grognards, but it would undermine the entire enterprise if new players could avoid buying any models.

Also, I can't be the only one who finds the designs in Pacific Rim to be TERRIBLE. They are fine for a realistic movie, but as toys, they lack all sense of design and personality - and unless the new movie goes a long way towards expanding the options, they are extremely limited to a handful of designs (most of which were barely seen in the movie).

MonPoc did really well in that regard, with the Planet Eaters looking like something that stepped out of a 1970s Godzilla film and GUARD being influenced heavily by stuff like Mazinger Z. And old school aesthetic that really pops. Never was much of a fan of the Ultraman-inspired Shadow Sun Syndicate though. But then they mix in some Western influences, like the Martian Menace and Lords of Cthul - I think PP originally did an amazing job on creating the look. I'd put it up there with the PS2 game, War of the Monsters.

(I don't have any series 4/5 figures, unfortunately, but King Kong, giant insects, and massive sea creatures are pretty good too).

PP definitely did a good job mixing the Kaiju genre with "Attack of the" schlock.

 Sqorgar wrote:
They are rebooting the a game that has been dead for a long time. Those of us that still have their collection (and intend to keep it despite the reboot) must be relatively small, and the policy against using the old models strikes me more to combat the idea that someone could buy a complete collection off eBay for cheap. They can't stop the grognards, but it would undermine the entire enterprise if new players could avoid buying any models.

Also, I can't be the only one who finds the designs in Pacific Rim to be TERRIBLE. They are fine for a realistic movie, but as toys, they lack all sense of design and personality - and unless the new movie goes a long way towards expanding the options, they are extremely limited to a handful of designs (most of which were barely seen in the movie).

MonPoc did really well in that regard, with the Planet Eaters looking like something that stepped out of a 1970s Godzilla film and GUARD being influenced heavily by stuff like Mazinger Z. And old school aesthetic that really pops. Never was much of a fan of the Ultraman-inspired Shadow Sun Syndicate though. But then they mix in some Western influences, like the Martian Menace and Lords of Cthul - I think PP originally did an amazing job on creating the look. I'd put it up there with the PS2 game, War of the Monsters.

(I don't have any series 4/5 figures, unfortunately, but King Kong, giant insects, and massive sea creatures are pretty good too).

SSS shared the weakness of the Martians tho maybe not to the same degree, which is that they were translucent plastic with like one metallic colour painted on top. If they were just a little more Ultraman they would be more striking. The Planet Eaters were by far one of the best designs because they didn't just look like an old monster film, they looked like an original monster film. They didn't simply copy something like the Godzilla and King Kong equivalents, or the Lords of Cthul. But yes, a very good mix of factions.