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 lolman1c wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/help-us-choose-an-army/

I noticed they only picked some of the most competitive armies... where was the option for Orks?!

The explanation is on their facebook page. They claim that the only armies that studio has at 4K points are the 4 armies listed.

They're freaking GW and they don't even own 4k worth of Orks?! This says a lot... but really... it's the main gw studio... they could make 4k worth of any army in a week if they had too!

Studio painted and ready to go?

how many people do you think that would take to get it done in a week.

There is a good chance they cant use the display stuff in whw and studio stuff is from various book photo shoots which kinda make sense since smurfs are in a lot of those books, morty was recent, yanari i dunno maybe its leftovers from the craftworld codex. and nids are in everything.

dunno about orks in recent publications.

 kodos wrote:

 ikeulhu wrote:

You seem to be discounting all the gamer parents out there, which is likely significant considering the age of 40k.

I would never teach or play 40k with my kids
they may get into it later as I have enough armies at home for them, but there are better games out there to play with the kids

I made a rule set based on bolt action 2ed for use with my 40k minis and my kids; it’s awesome and fun to play. I thought about switching to 8th ed when it came out but I’m glad I didn’t. IMO the game has too many layers of rules combined with a slow tempo (caused primarily by the often mind numbing amount of dice being rolled and re rolled), somewhat counter intuitive rules, and games last too long to be great for kids. My youngest, whom I absolutely do not trust to not break every mini that comes within 2feet of the little tike, is the official puller of order dice and keeper of the round counter.

I actually enjoy 8th ed. 40k but I wouldn’t want to play it with kids.

They literally said that they only had a week to get everything ready. They also had an army caveat that the models had to be a cohesive force. (As a GK player I'd love to have a cohesive force so don't get me started.)
I agree that it's strange that they can't do Orks but maybe they only have 1 unit of each type of Ork and it just doesn't add to 4K.

dosiere wrote:

I made a rule set based on bolt action 2ed for use with my 40k minis and my kids; it’s awesome and fun to play. I thought about switching to 8th ed when it came out but I’m glad I didn’t. IMO the game has too many layers of rules combined with a slow tempo (caused primarily by the often mind numbing amount of dice being rolled and re rolled), somewhat counter intuitive rules, and games last too long to be great for kids. My youngest, whom I absolutely do not trust to not break every mini that comes within 2feet of the little tike, is the official puller of order dice and keeper of the round counter.

I actually enjoy 8th ed. 40k but I wouldn’t want to play it with kids.

It is definitely far from perfect, but it is also much more manageable than in previous editions. I would certainly be interested in a rule set such as you described, as the main draw for both myself and my son is the lore and fluff as opposed to the actual game play of 40k.

 Desubot wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/help-us-choose-an-army/

I noticed they only picked some of the most competitive armies... where was the option for Orks?!

The explanation is on their facebook page. They claim that the only armies that studio has at 4K points are the 4 armies listed.

They're freaking GW and they don't even own 4k worth of Orks?! This says a lot... but really... it's the main gw studio... they could make 4k worth of any army in a week if they had too!

Studio painted and ready to go?

how many people do you think that would take to get it done in a week.

There is a good chance they cant use the display stuff in whw and studio stuff is from various book photo shoots which kinda make sense since smurfs are in a lot of those books, morty was recent, yanari i dunno maybe its leftovers from the craftworld codex. and nids are in everything.

dunno about orks in recent publications.

My mate painted 2k points pretty well in a week... i'm sure they could get 3 of their painters to work together and paint 4k orks. Get some big forge world stuff and a sto pa and that's half you points right there done in a day.

Nevertheless, they still didn't have 4k worth of orks already painted? I still stand by my case that this says a lot about gw... they just happen to have all the powerful poster boyz ready.... either that or they're lying.

Pretty sure in 1 of the pictures in index shows like a billion points... let me go check and calculate them.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/help-us-choose-an-army/

I noticed they only picked some of the most competitive armies... where was the option for Orks?!

The explanation is on their facebook page. They claim that the only armies that studio has at 4K points are the 4 armies listed.

They're freaking GW and they don't even own 4k worth of Orks?! This says a lot... but really... it's the main gw studio... they could make 4k worth of any army in a week if they had too!

Studio painted and ready to go?

how many people do you think that would take to get it done in a week.

There is a good chance they cant use the display stuff in whw and studio stuff is from various book photo shoots which kinda make sense since smurfs are in a lot of those books, morty was recent, yanari i dunno maybe its leftovers from the craftworld codex. and nids are in everything.

dunno about orks in recent publications.

My mate painted 2k points pretty well in a week... i'm sure they could get 3 of their painters to work together and paint 4k orks. Get some big forge world stuff and a sto pa and that's half you points right there done in a day.

Nevertheless, they still didn't have 4k worth of orks already painted? I still stand by my case that this says a lot about gw... they just happen to have all the powerful poster boyz ready.... either that or they're lying.

Pretty sure in 1 of the pictures in index shows like a billion points... let me go check and calculate them.

But to their studio standard? They are representing their company. good enough isnt good enough. at least thats my take on it and what i would be concerned with if i was them.

Yeah its a bit weird that the orks arent available. its possible the studio army ran off to some other GW store or even possibly was sent to the warhammer cafe as a display we really dont know.

So this is just from 2 images in the index and I'm already on 4300+ points... so this doesn't even include all the separate units painted.

But to their studio standard?

4 guys painting 8-12 hours a day?
for sure they can

 kodos wrote:

But to their studio standard?

4 guys painting 8-12 hours a day?
for sure they can

On top of their own work.. probably not. good chance they are already well into whatever release is coming up next.

on top of that i highly doubt gw would want 2 ork armies sitting around.

my guess is still that it was sent out for some other project or location.

 kodos wrote:

But to their studio standard?

4 guys painting 8-12 hours a day?
for sure they can

Yes, but then those 4 guys aren't painting the new armies GW's cranking our for 8-12 hours a day . Allocation of resources.

Or someone could go to their Facebook page and ask them why no Orks and ask for a specific reason.

There's no guarantee of an answer or the answer may have to do with the fact that there is something going on with the Ork codex and that they don't want to give anything away.

I don't know and am purely speculating.

I've already seen like 3 people ask on the page. But no seriously... we all know the real reason is they don't want to show how embarrassingly unbalanced Orks are. XD

In other words they have like a 100k points worth of orks probably but don't want to play 4k points worth of boyz (or don't have 4k boyz)

Not sure what they get paid now but 2 or 3 years ago i had a friend who worked in the studio and got paid only min wage and worked super hard (he had cuts in his hands from building so much... but everyone was super huge fan boys who used to sit in the room and say they would work for free if they could. Not sure if it is still like that as he has not worked there for years but if it is then I'm sure those over worked underpaid painter could be whipped into making 4k troops in like 2 days.

 lolman1c wrote:
I've already seen like 3 people ask on the page. But no seriously... we all know the real reason is they don't want to show how embarrassingly unbalanced Orks are. XD

Possibly, it could also be that they're also required to play using models from the current model line, which may slow things up. I'd bet if you really dug around, they probably have thousands of points of Orks, but many of them are probably old, OOP models that they don't want to use in tournament. After all, whatever they play needs to showcase the current model line.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I've already seen like 3 people ask on the page. But no seriously... we all know the real reason is they don't want to show how embarrassingly unbalanced Orks are. XD

Possibly, it could also be that they're also required to play using models from the current model line, which may slow things up. I'd bet if you really dug around, they probably have thousands of points of Orks, but many of them are probably old, OOP models that they don't want to use in tournament. After all, whatever they play needs to showcase the current model line.

Old OOP models? You mean the current line of models? This is why orks should be on the vote even more! It's laughable! They still sell the old 2nd edition models for full price! But not seriously... i'm up to like 6k points on the index. All fully modern new models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This was their reply to a fb comment asking for orks btw:

"Yo! It's genuinely is because the studio Ork army is not 4,000 points! No conspiracy theory here - that's the truth! We do love Orks too... trust us!"

Don't know if the kid believed them but I certainly don't!

Not convinced they could paint 4000 points in a week to studio standard unless they really cut down. Its a fair question whether say 300 boys all need to have three highlights and a good base, but I'd be surprised if they could get down to 30 minutes a boy and not look obviously bad. An hour seems more likely.

Thats 150-300 hours alone before you look at anything else.

Really though I can believe the studio doesn't have sufficient duplicates to do 4k and have an army that looks vaguely sensible.

 lolman1c wrote:
I've already seen like 3 people ask on the page. But no seriously... we all know the real reason is they don't want to show how embarrassingly unbalanced Orks are. XD

In other words they have like a 100k points worth of orks probably but don't want to play 4k points worth of boyz (or don't have 4k boyz)

Not sure what they get paid now but 2 or 3 years ago i had a friend who worked in the studio and got paid only min wage and worked super hard (he had cuts in his hands from building so much... but everyone was super huge fan boys who used to sit in the room and say they would work for free if they could. Not sure if it is still like that as he has not worked there for years but if it is then I'm sure those over worked underpaid painter could be whipped into making 4k troops in like 2 days.

That seems to be the GW business model - underpay people because they're getting to work at GW. I went for a writing job there a few years back and didn't get it but I did find out what the salary was and it was, quite frankly, pitiful. So low, in fact, that I wouldn't have accepted the job had it been offered (they don't tell you the salary until you get to the interview stage). Getting back to the original question, that definitely has an effect on the quality of work they produce. If you don't pay enough for professional standards you shouldn't expect them. Having said that, there have been similar discussions about design positions in other companies and it seems the industry as a whole relies on "the fanboy factor" when it comes to salaries. And yet other companies do a better job than GW on balance, so pay isn't the only factor in producing good rules. It's definitely a factor in retaining any good people you do manage to find though.

GW themselves are not going to take an Index army to a major tournament. Full stop.

Would be a completely ridiculous thing to do.

 Silentz wrote:
GW themselves are not going to take an Index army to a major tournament. Full stop.

Would be a completely ridiculous thing to do.

Then they should say that and not lie to us...

Why are You determined to be insulted about this. What army they take to AdeptiCon doesn't matter. It affects such a small group of people it shouldn't even register as a thing.

People are running out of things to be insulted about.

 Jidmah wrote:
People are running out of things to be insulted about.

Boy are YOU wrong!

I feel orks are underrepresented by GW. Would have been nice to have the option to vote for them or any other underrepresented army...(even though they would have never won). The fact they didn't even put up an illusion means they couldn't care less... it's not just this though... this is just another brick on the mountains of bricks...

I think you're overthinking this. The only reason for GW to send employees to attend am event as players is marketing.
Currently there is nothing to do for orks, so they are simply bringing an army that they think will represent the game they aim for well.
Getting tabled with whatever orks are seen in the dioramas or playing a 4k point green tide would not be good for marketing at all.

If they had put Orks as an option it would have been chosen by the community.

But really why would they take an Index army?

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
Which makes it even funnier that he typed that because up until very recently GW has done 0 market research on its own customer base so has had no knowledge of the make-up of competitive vs. basement group players. So effectively he was (like nearly everything he writes) inserting his own headcannon into the situation.

As much as I despise ADB's retcons to even dumber retcons to fluff - I'd hardly call internal sales data GW must have 'headcanon'. His post also doesn't seem all that unreasonable, if the competitive players insist unit X is garbage yet unit Y is OP, but both sell about the same, then either their conclusions are plainly wrong, or are right but so insignificant in the grand scheme of things it's better to pay attention to guys who are buying unit X despite its weakness to figure out why there is demand for it.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Not being a total dunce is about all that is required to write legitimate/relevant rules.

The numbskull that decided to make an ultramarines stratagem that allows a unit to reroll 1's when standing next to a dreadnought is just asinine. Outside of Guilliman/Calgar how give even better buffs even a standard captain does reroll 1's. The same can be seen in the tau codex with countless methods to reroll 1's. These are examples of complete idiots writing rules. How dumb do you have to be to keep repeating the same rule over and over - and it's useless rule to boot.

Thanks for best possible proof writing rules based on dumb WAAC rants would be a hopeless endeavour.

That 'even a standard captain' can't be everywhere at once, can be sniped, or otherwise blocked from granting buff in a number of ways. Then, being able to buff your gunline from that venerable dreadnought (who also, I might add, has a much larger base so buff range) hanging out with them is sure an useless thing, eh? Redundancy, what's that?

I saw a lot of angry rants on everything GW does but whining they give players more options is really taking the cake...

 Jidmah wrote:
I think you're overthinking this. The only reason for GW to send employees to attend am event as players is marketing.
Currently there is nothing to do for orks, so they are simply bringing an army that they think will represent the game they aim for well.
Getting tabled with whatever orks are seen in the dioramas or playing a 4k point green tide would not be good for marketing at all.

Your probably right but its not going to stop people wanting to see GW get bogged down playing green tide or fall flat on their face playing anything else from the Ork faction in order to maybe a send the message that "This mess needs fixing". For the less cynical players I think seeing Orks on the tabletop would be a welcome relief from the overabundance of Eldar, Space Marine, and Chaos Space Marine content they keep shoveling out (not just kits but narrative, art, and marketing focus content).

 Vankraken wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I think you're overthinking this. The only reason for GW to send employees to attend am event as players is marketing.
Currently there is nothing to do for orks, so they are simply bringing an army that they think will represent the game they aim for well.
Getting tabled with whatever orks are seen in the dioramas or playing a 4k point green tide would not be good for marketing at all.

Your probably right but its not going to stop people wanting to see GW get bogged down playing green tide or fall flat on their face playing anything else from the Ork faction in order to maybe a send the message that "This mess needs fixing". For the less cynical players I think seeing Orks on the tabletop would be a welcome relief from the overabundance of Eldar, Space Marine, and Chaos Space Marine content they keep shoveling out (not just kits but narrative, art, and marketing focus content).

You can't tell me that it's a coincidence that the only armies then own over 4K points are the top armies in tournaments?! Funny how IG isn't on that list though.... but that's probably because GW has big nerfs coming for them because they realised they actually made them good for once.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
Which makes it even funnier that he typed that because up until very recently GW has done 0 market research on its own customer base so has had no knowledge of the make-up of competitive vs. basement group players. So effectively he was (like nearly everything he writes) inserting his own headcannon into the situation.

Maybe, but with access to sales data he can see that "good" kits didn't outsell "bad" kits, which says a lot.

Edit...late to the party!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lolman1c wrote:


You can't tell me that it's a coincidence that the only armies then own over 4K points are the top armies in tournaments?! Funny how IG isn't on that list though.... but that's probably because GW has big nerfs coming for them because they realised they actually made them good for once.

Who knows. It's all speculation for us anyway. There could be other reasons we're not privy to as to why those armies aren't available and they just didn't want to get into it.

 Irbis wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
Which makes it even funnier that he typed that because up until very recently GW has done 0 market research on its own customer base so has had no knowledge of the make-up of competitive vs. basement group players. So effectively he was (like nearly everything he writes) inserting his own headcannon into the situation.

As much as I despise ADB's retcons to even dumber retcons to fluff - I'd hardly call internal sales data GW must have 'headcanon'. His post also doesn't seem all that unreasonable, if the competitive players insist unit X is garbage yet unit Y is OP, but both sell about the same, then either their conclusions are plainly wrong, or are right but so insignificant in the grand scheme of things it's better to pay attention to guys who are buying unit X despite its weakness to figure out why there is demand for it.

Sales data he wouldn't have had access to at any point? Sales data that is heavily skewed by their trade sales numbers? GW isn't a fantastic datametrics company at all, so I both doubt that information exists in any parse-able format and that ADB would have ever seen it (given that he never worked in accounting, trade, or manufacturing/forecasting).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
Which makes it even funnier that he typed that because up until very recently GW has done 0 market research on its own customer base so has had no knowledge of the make-up of competitive vs. basement group players. So effectively he was (like nearly everything he writes) inserting his own headcannon into the situation.

Maybe, but with access to sales data he can see that "good" kits didn't outsell "bad" kits, which says a lot.

Edit...late to the party!

See above - ADB would have never been in a position to have access to that kind of information. Source - I worked for GW for 9 years in the Memphis facility in both a forecasting and manufacturing role.

 Irbis wrote:
His post also doesn't seem all that unreasonable, if the competitive players insist unit X is garbage yet unit Y is OP, but both sell about the same, then either their conclusions are plainly wrong, or are right but so insignificant in the grand scheme of things it's better to pay attention to guys who are buying unit X despite its weakness to figure out why there is demand for it.

You're overlooking the fact that this is a hobby with a significant painting and modeling component. For example, let's say competitive players say tactical squads are trash but sternguard squads are awesome. But yet tactical squad boxes continue to sell. It must be a case of the competitive players being wrong, right? Not necessarily. What if tactical squad sales are driven by people who love painting space marines? What if most of those tactical squad boxes are being used to represent sternguard on the table? What if lots of boxes of tactical marines are being sold to small children who are ignorant of the game beyond "SPACE MARINES ARE SO COOL MOMMY BUY ME ONE". Those sales don't contradict the idea that the tactical squad rules are bad and need to be fixed.

You're also overlooking things like third-party sales. A unit with powerful rules that can be represented by old models is going to be a big target for third-party sales. For example, people playing conscript hordes at the start of 8th probably didn't buy new boxes of guardsmen, most of them just ebayed the cheapest old models they could get their hands on. So conscripts may in fact be selling extremely well, but with GW only seeing a small part of that revenue.