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Is anyone using Chaos Chosen in their armies? I'm trying to optimize my lists and would like to hear thoughts on how they perform.

The situation is this. I've been running several lists in 8th edition, mostly consisting of Cultists / Obliterators or Lascannon spam. These lists perform well against armor and screens, but I'm starting to understand how frail they can be against high-toughness / multiwound models. Seems like every game recently there's some Terminator / Nob / Crisis Suit / Wraithguard unit is sitting on an objective I really need, and I just don't have the tools to finish them off.

There's usually a Heldrake / Helbrute / Defiler / whatever in my list that mostly acts as a distraction unit. I think I could get without it, but I'm stuck on what to replace it with. Plasma Chosen in a Rhino appeals to me, except they're not cheap. Warp Talons with MoK appeals to me, but I'm not sold on their damage. Adding a Khorne Daemon detachment appeals to me, but the CPs needed to pull off a Bloodletter bomb compete with other Stratagems I commonly use.

So I'm thinking about Chosen. Despite the cost, they have the same save as a normal CSM. But I think I really only need them a turn or two, their survivability may not matter that much.

Would love to hear other people's thoughts.

As a fellow BL player my take on plasma chosen is a hard pass.

I do love me some plasma, but what I have found more useful are combi-plas termies. More expensive yes, but much more flexible.

If I am feeling spicy I run a triple Heldrake wing. Their damage output isn't great and they aren't optimal, but they can handle high armor, multi wound infantry fairly well.

I agree that survivability of chosen really doesn't matter, but you also really want 1st turn with them since they are stuck in a rhino that could potentially be focus fired. Terminators are guaranteed to get in position when and where you need them most.

I think we have discussed this before but I do encourage you to try a bloodletter bomb. You are right to worry about the 3 CP they require to land reliably, but my god do they pack a punch.

I've had some success running them up the board in Rhino's.

I usually stick them in with a complimentary unit (Berzerkers for example)

I find its best to run them as something that the enemy thinks they can ignore. So 5x Twin Bolters is something they might not target, but a Combi Plas and 4x Plasma Guns is something they will try to stop reaching their lines.

Once you've softened up a target, the Berzerkers (or equivelent) jump and finish them off. The Chosen themselves also have 2 attacks a piece base as well which means they can be good for helping the other squad or soaking up overwatch.

I do run Plasma Chosen which I know is a bit hit or miss, but they are Iron Warriors, so its useful when combined with cover denial.

Manfried wrote:
As a fellow BL player my take on plasma chosen is a hard pass.

I do love me some plasma, but what I have found more useful are combi-plas termies. More expensive yes, but much more flexible.

If I am feeling spicy I run a triple Heldrake wing. Their damage output isn't great and they aren't optimal, but they can handle high armor, multi wound infantry fairly well.

I agree that survivability of chosen really doesn't matter, but you also really want 1st turn with them since they are stuck in a rhino that could potentially be focus fired. Terminators are guaranteed to get in position when and where you need them most.

I think we have discussed this before but I do encourage you to try a bloodletter bomb. You are right to worry about the 3 CP they require to land reliably, but my god do they pack a punch.

Yeah, I've been clearing entire sections of the board with Bloodletter bombs. Definitely know what you are talking about.

The trouble is it's an early-game tactic. They arrive, they kill a few things, then they die. I'm more looking for the late game threat that can clear an objective of heavy infantry and maybe shoot up a vehicle. I know Bloodletters can be summoned any turn, but I usually don't have a character close enough to do the summoning (and there aren't enough turns to footslog over to said objective.)

Getting back to Chosen, it sounds like the objection is that they are not a first turn threat. Did I read that right? Are there other concerns?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MadMekRoff wrote:
I've had some success running them up the board in Rhino's.

I usually stick them in with a complimentary unit (Berzerkers for example)

I find its best to run them as something that the enemy thinks they can ignore. So 5x Twin Bolters is something they might not target, but a Combi Plas and 4x Plasma Guns is something they will try to stop reaching their lines.

Once you've softened up a target, the Berzerkers (or equivelent) jump and finish them off. The Chosen themselves also have 2 attacks a piece base as well which means they can be good for helping the other squad or soaking up overwatch.

I do run Plasma Chosen which I know is a bit hit or miss, but they are Iron Warriors, so its useful when combined with cover denial.

Good thoughts.

Help me understand: Do you mostly run the Chosen with TL Bolters or Plasma Guns? Do you find the choice of gun actually deters some opponents? I was thinking about mixing the weapon load out for this purpose - 2 Plasma are a lot less scary than 4.

I usually run them with Plasma most of the time. This is simply because I don't have any Obliterators and only one lonesome Havoc squad.

I do have a LasPred, but it is usually targeted early on, so the Plasma acts as insurance if I lose my AT early on in the game. My play style tends to revolve around Berzerkers and Flesh Hounds though, so the Plasma Chosen represent a flexible unit with rare dakka in my lists.

Sorry if I'm rambling, it's just to explain why I use what I use.

What I have found, is when I bring Bolter Chosen, my opponents tend to ignore them in favour of harder hitting models, but I imagine it depends on your opponents and what else you'll be bringing for any given game.

A mix of bolters and Plasma sounds good though, might make them less of a priority.

My experience is that you are better off with havocs. Not really much else to say about that

I plan on running some with meltas in my slannesh Renegade list in a rhino to make use of their CT

double shot CP will probably make them really good at eating any number of tanks or large monsters.

noahprickett wrote:
My experience is that you are better off with havocs. Not really much else to say about that

Very true. Havocs do the exact same thing for less points. I still think they are not worth taking though. They are fragile and unreliable for the points you pay for the unit. From a pure efficiency standpoint those points are far better spent on oblits.

Manfried wrote:
From a pure efficiency standpoint those points are far better spent on oblits.

Unfortunately, Obliterators are so strong and Chosen / Havoc / any other shooty unit (except maybe Noise Marines) so bad that it's *always* better to just run Obliterators.

But if someone wants to try Chosen, I'd recommend 10 of them with Combi-Bolters in a Rhino with dual Combi-Bolters. Very strong horde clearing and still better than Rubric Marines against MEQ (yes, I know, it's weird...).

 Nym wrote:

Manfried wrote:
From a pure efficiency standpoint those points are far better spent on oblits.

Unfortunately, Obliterators are so strong and Chosen / Havoc / any other shooty unit (except maybe Noise Marines) so bad that it's *always* better to just run Obliterators.

But if someone wants to try Chosen, I'd recommend 10 of them with Combi-Bolters in a Rhino with dual Combi-Bolters. Very strong horde clearing and still better than Rubric Marines against MEQ (yes, I know, it's weird...).

Yeah. I am currently running 3 units of Obliterators in the Heavy Support slots to fill out a Battalion. They work nicely.

Part of the reason I am looking at Chosen is they fit into the elites slot with AP - weapons. This keeps me from paying the HQ tax for another detachment.

While I get the previous point about Terminators, the problem is with deep strike. They would need to arrive by turn 3 (or footslog) and that makes it hard to deal with things late game. Plus the price.

I miss having min squad of 3 termicide for 95pts from 7th ed.

Have you considered minimal squad of 5 chosen with combi bolters and just march them and try to shoot 24" away?

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
I miss having min squad of 3 termicide for 95pts from 7th ed.

Have you considered minimal squad of 5 chosen with combi bolters and just march them and try to shoot 24" away?

You're not the first person to suggest as much.

Played 2 games this weekend and think I found a way to make them work.

Brought 2x 5x Chosen in a single Rhino, with 2x Plasma and 2x Heavy Bolters each. Little more expensive than a Terminator squad, had to cut down on other units to fit them.

Played against DE / Harlequins and Salamanders in objective point games. In the first few turns, the lowly Rhino was ignored in favor of bigger threats on the table. Both games ended in a dash to grab objectives.

Vs Eldar, I was able to disembark a Chosen squad on an objective while the other stayed in the Rhino to challenge a group of Witches standing on the other. The Chosen gunned down enough models to eventually control the objective, my opponent would have had to leave it to charge me so I had 2 good turns of shooting.

Vs Salamanders, my opponent dropped a Terminator squad on the objective the first turn. It shot up the Rhino on approach, leaving it with a single wound remaining. The Chosen disembarked and managed to kill 2 Terminators in shooting before moving and advancing to take the point (with 3 Terminators still there - we outnumbered them.) I also had a Jump Pack Sorcerer with them to cast Prescience before the shooting started, which made a difference.

My main observation is the cost, you have to commit to using them and need plenty of distraction units to keep them on the table. The fact there were 2 units in the Rhino worked in my favor, doubling up was a sneaky trick that worked out well. Both games had most of the action happening on the other side of the board. While I was losing a lot of models, it didn't really matter in a game that was about table control. A tiny skirmish on the other end of the table decided both games.

The 2 attacks didn't really matter much against Wytches and Terminators. They did get into combat both times and a few bad saves could have lead to a morale check I did not want. Bringing the Sorcerer was nice, but having a morale buff would have made me sweat a bit less.

The one thing I did not get to do was Tide of Traitors, to drop in a ton of Cultists the same time the Chosen were springing out of Rhinos. I actually had the command points in one game but decided to leave the Cultists where they were.

I use Chosen, but for a very specific use.

For 90 points, a 5 man squad of Chosen with Combibolters and nothing else allows 20 bolter shots in rapid fire.As far as raw dakka goes, it's the cheapest bang for your buck in the codex.

They're also very resilient from morale with their 8 LD, and the cheapest way to fill an elite unit in a detachment.