Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Will the stompa ever be good? I want to so badly have my stompa fielded but it's so trash for its points it's not even for fun games. Will he reduce its points so much that it'll make it playable? I've never seen a unit that needs at least a 50% point reduction

Unpopular opinion, but I hope he remains prohibitively expensive. Large single expensive units make for tactically uninteresting games and very rock/paper/scissor tournament experiences.

Well, they made the tesseract vault good.

On the other hand, the obelisk and monolith are still terrible. So whether or not your favorite big thing happens to get buffed into usefulness is a big shrug emoji.

Honestly I think its price is appropriate, maybe I'd even make it more expensive. He just needs to be 10x more killy and way more resilient.

The model is huge, it should be a titan equivalent. Something that you never see in games below 3000 points.

Pretty sure before chapter approved he was only a few points (like 200) of a warhound scout titan. So you're telling me, gw looked at them both and said "yep, that's about right!"

Personally they need to rethink what the Stompa is trying to be, either go back to what it was in Epic, basically an Ork Knight, drop the points significantly and reprofile it to fit that role.

or go for what the model appears to be trying to be, a Slasher Gargant without the belly gun, and create the stats and points to suit the Ork Warhound type role.

Currently you are paying way too many points for what it does, assuming because weapons are costed on what they can do, not what they actually will do

Also while I doubt it would happen, an upgrade frame to give it a belly gun, and alternative feet so you can have two in different poses would be nice

leopard wrote:
Personally they need to rethink what the Stompa is trying to be, either go back to what it was in Epic, basically an Ork Knight, drop the points significantly and reprofile it to fit that role.

or go for what the model appears to be trying to be, a Slasher Gargant without the belly gun, and create the stats and points to suit the Ork Warhound type role.

Currently you are paying way too many points for what it does, assuming because weapons are costed on what they can do, not what they actually will do

Also while I doubt it would happen, an upgrade frame to give it a belly gun, and alternative feet so you can have two in different poses would be nice

Even with 3+ to hit those weapons wouldn't be worth taking for that point value. And the armor save for that thing teamed with its complete lack of invuln and its not even durable.

To make it worth it if drop it 400 points give it a 5 involn and bs 4

It's still useless even with a point drop. Fixing the ork shooting phase would help dearly with this. It needs to be killy which it's not. I also find it odd that the stompa lost stomp even though smaller walkers have it.

It's freaking called the stompa!

ballzonya wrote:
To make it worth it if drop it 400 points give it a 5 involn and bs 4

I'd make it 1200 points with 120 W and tons of devastating weapons instead.

The nauts should be our knights equivalent.

Stompa used to be walking land raider before gw screwed up with names...

Remember when they dropped the price on the Morkanaut by 30 points and then declared it to be "much more tempting"?

Yeah they're going to slap a 100 point discount on the Stompa, declare that it had a "massive points drop!" and wipe their hands of it. I resigned myself to my glorious walking bucket only showing up in open play or narrative games of Apoc a long time ago.

People I know have heard gw devs say in multiple occasions that they don't know what to do with orks.

 lolman1c wrote:
People I know have heard gw devs say in multiple occasions that they don't know what to do with orks.

That isn't true at all, they know what they are doing, anything good and fun about orkz they are stripping away and giving to other factions. We used to be the kings of Dakka, not so much, we used to be the coolest horde army, not anymore, we used to have the best vehicle that rammed things, again, not anymore. one of the best anti-tank units in the game (Tankbustas) not anymore.

SemperMortis wrote:

leopard wrote:
Personally they need to rethink what the Stompa is trying to be, either go back to what it was in Epic, basically an Ork Knight, drop the points significantly and reprofile it to fit that role.

or go for what the model appears to be trying to be, a Slasher Gargant without the belly gun, and create the stats and points to suit the Ork Warhound type role.

Currently you are paying way too many points for what it does, assuming because weapons are costed on what they can do, not what they actually will do

Also while I doubt it would happen, an upgrade frame to give it a belly gun, and alternative feet so you can have two in different poses would be nice

Even with 3+ to hit those weapons wouldn't be worth taking for that point value. And the armor save for that thing teamed with its complete lack of invuln and its not even durable.

didn't say GW had the costs for the weapons right, they have just assumed they do a hell of a lot more than they typically actually do - across the board with Orks they haven't considered what BS:5 actually does


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lolman1c wrote:
People I know have heard gw devs say in multiple occasions that they don't know what to do with orks.

Makes sense, bit like how Battlefront have no idea what to do with Soviets.

"Green Tide" & "Mob Rule" allow the boyz to actually work for the first time in ages, coupled with a way to advance then charge and an army wide charge re-roll the infantry actually finally do what they should.

Kill most things they can catch, but die to just about anything that can catch them first.

Ork range weapons to me need a couple of things, not all at once:

1. twice the rate of fire for the "more dakka" rule, perhaps only at half range or less, to represent all the shots that at long range are so wide you don't roll for them (so they are dangerous as they close in, but are emphatically not a gun line)

2. less randomness, i.e. take out the "d6" shots stuff and "d3" damage stuff for fixed numbers, you roll enough dice anyway, mostly to no effect,

3. give orks "exploding dice" ala Dystopian wars, so say a six to hit always allows another shot, and let this cascade, so while there shooting is generally pants on occasion it will be spectacular

4. actually understand what BS:5 means in the game, either let them advance and fire without penalty (in effect stating they are given a stat line that assumes they never stand still or advance cautiously) with <ASSAULT> weapons, or provide a way to mitigate negative to hit modifiers within the game (my favoured option is for every time you halve the dice you roll you can ignore a -1 on the dice, so quarter your dice to ignore -2 etc and provide this game wide, note not a bonus to hit, the ability to ignore a negative)


GW have finally made the green tide work, they need to follow up on this with the other supporting units, so perhaps they also gain benefit from being near a huge unit of orks or in a large unit (A bit like how grots get +1 to hit when there is a lot of them, kills fans a bonus attack when there is a lot etc) - amplify the effect of large units which is how orks are shown in the fiction, make them unsubtle clunking great fists, but ones that can be danced around by a more mobile enemy

Yeah... there is a 1 in 100 chance it will do 6 wounds.... but it might do those 6 wounds so let's make it more expensive than the weapons that have a 1/3 chance!

I want a devils advocate though! Who here can defend the stompa? (I'm looking at you Daedalus!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hoing off topic. I like how Orks play in Epic 40k. Their mobs stay mobs and benefit each other... like it's all just one giant unit rather than lots of different units. Would be cool if thry could just let Orks free flow between mobs like you all get out of the trukks and mob up without having to use command points.

 lolman1c wrote:
Yeah... there is a 1 in 100 chance it will do 6 wounds.... but it might do those 6 wounds so let's make it more expensive than the weapons that have a 1/3 chance!

I want a devils advocate though! Who here can defend the stompa? (I'm looking at you Daedalus!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hoing off topic. I like how Orks play in Epic 40k. Their mobs stay mobs and benefit each other... like it's all just one giant unit rather than lots of different units. Would be cool if thry could just let Orks free flow between mobs like you all get out of the trukks and mob up without having to use command points.

would you plant flowers in any of the other Ork units?

or fill any of the other Ork units with fried chicken?


To me they either need to make it a knight, with a knight points cost, much better in combat due to the bulk fo the thing, much better at anti infantry but much weaker at range and more able to absorb damage due to its bulk (so dangerous if it gets close, but not overly fast or nimble)

or make the thing a full blown baby gargant and do basically the same but scaled against a warhound - so again slower, less powerful at range, but much nastier close up and taking more firepower to bring down - power fields in place of void shields that soak damage but cannot be repaired.


I see the things role almost like a siege tower, it slowly lumbers towards its target, and if the target is unable to move if it gets there it will make a mess, but not something you use to chase down a mobile enemy, and not really suited to being a giant firebase which improving its shooting will lead to

Yeah, either decrease the points to the knight level (maybe make it like that new knight with more dakka and stuff but not titan level fire power)or keep it the same points and make it titan level fire power.

STOP MAKING THINGS SLOWER! Jesus, we are already one of the slowest armies in the game and I would argue we ARE the slowest CC army.

The stompa needs a close combat profile that matches it's point costs, with six or seven attacks. Four attacks is laughable, especially when they WS can degrade to 5+ when you still have 20 wounds left. A stompa struggles to kill as much as unit of guardsmen at that point, shooting and combat combined.
Then add some shooting that actually does something. The freakin' Khorne super heavy outshoots it. Mortarion outshoots it and he only brings grenades and a pistol!

SemperMortis wrote:
one of the best anti-tank units in the game (Tankbustas) not anymore.

I don't know about you, but when I bought my metal tank bustas, they were forced to shoot, move towards and attempt to charge the closest vehicle. Even if it was a basilisk 90" away. You literally had no control of them in 5th edition codex.
Besides that I agree. My favorite part is when they nerfed the KFF to be 5++ instead of 4+ cover because it was to powerful and gave Azrael a 4++ force field three months later.

Who in the dev team is even a primary Ork player?

 lolman1c wrote:
Who in the dev team is even a primary Ork player?

Can you even name 5 members of the dev team? Or three of their primary armies? This is such a tired and bad line of thought.

People like to sling vitriol about "The dev team [XYZ]" but its massively overblown. What they do, they do behind closed doors. No one who knows anything about whats happening with the dev team is talking about it, and especially not in threads full of people complaining about them.

 davou wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Who in the dev team is even a primary Ork player?

Can you even name 5 members of the dev team? Or three of their primary armies? This is such a tired and bad line of thought.

People like to sling vitriol about "The dev team [XYZ]" but its massively overblown. What they do, they do behind closed doors. No one who knows anything about whats happening with the dev team is talking about it, and especially not in threads full of people complaining about them.

I know they don't own 4k points worth of Orks now go get a hug while I totally ignore you and continue to complain because I'm an ork player and enjoy complaining. But I do know a few things about the devs and know (supposedly) they all work on the codex together with nobody taking priority lead. This was explained to me when i asked GW'S question team about how 8th edition codecies are made. I also had a mate who worked at GW's head office but that information is a few years out of fate now so things may have changed.

 lolman1c wrote:

 davou wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Who in the dev team is even a primary Ork player?

Can you even name 5 members of the dev team? Or three of their primary armies? This is such a tired and bad line of thought.

People like to sling vitriol about "The dev team [XYZ]" but its massively overblown. What they do, they do behind closed doors. No one who knows anything about whats happening with the dev team is talking about it, and especially not in threads full of people complaining about them.

I know they don't own 4k points worth of Orks now go get a hug while I totally ignore you and continue to complain because I'm an ork player and enjoy complaining. But I do know a few things about the devs and know (supposedly) they all work on the codex together with nobody taking priority lead. This was explained to me when i asked GW'S question team about how 8th edition codecies are made. I also had a mate who worked at GW's head office but that information is a few years out of fate now so things may have changed.

Go ahead and ignore me, but if you want to be taken seriously then you should present yourself seriously. None of us have any insight about the dev team. For all we know its an office full of people like you and me who were as upset about how things went in the past as we are, but got told to do it that way. I can say for sure I don't envy the devs when their names went on the codices; Cruddace's name literally became the defacto word for 'gakky'.

I've seen almost nothing this edition out of the game dev team that warrants complaints and vitriol on the level we see on dakka... Worse it seems like an attitude of conspiracy has permeated. "They hate orks" "They only make strong rules for eldar" "They overnerfed guard"... Hell they're even getting flak for the FAQ flyrant nerf that is only a rumor at this point.

Stompa sucks; its horrible for its points... But I will be honest, I'm kinda okay with it staying low tier because the invasion of titans and baneblades into 40k is not something I liked the thought of too much. I think the game devs realized at the end of 7th/start of 8th that trying to mix apoc into 40k totally wasn't a super hot idea.

Oh, okay. I geuss I can't have fun on this site then. Have to structure everything like a academic essay and can't ever say anything negative. Wouldn't want to hurt anybodies feelings. Sometimes people see things you don't see and have different experience that warrant their anger.

And how can I take you seriously if you want a unit to be crap just because you don't like it... what about all those people who own them? Put time and effort into building and painting them? Oh but no... geuss we wouldn't want to have large units in our game... especially when they advertised it as okay for so long... geuss those people just wasted all their money then. Guess if you bought the wrong unit you can't have fun anymore! Join the line to buy more boyz! But I will take you seriously because it's important to listen and debate in order to mold greater ideas.

I've debated with you in the past and I'll continue to debate with you until the end of time if I have to. But do not mistake my carefree and comedic attitude for ignorance. Never not take anyone seriously! I'll accept you dislike this criticism but you have to accept some of us have criticism. We're GW'S customers and have a lot of investment in this game (we have received nothing from this game for free) but have been seriously trampled on for years. If we didn't love it we wouldn't be here complaining, we would have moved onto something else to complain about. But just because this edition is better than 7th (a child could have done that), and the editions before, doesn't mean I should let my guard down. I've been in situations like these before and if you don't keep an eye of tgese things and don't send a crusade you end up with a WAAAAGH! Of problems like we have had.

I think the Stompa is fine where it is in points, points are a band-aid. They need an invuln of maybe a 5++, and either more wounds or better weapon profiles. I don't think their BS should get increased, just the weapon profiles, with points standing still.

 vaklor4 wrote:
I think the Stompa is fine where it is in points, points are a band-aid. They need an invuln of maybe a 5++, and either more wounds or better weapon profiles. I don't think their BS should get increased, just the weapon profiles, with points standing still.

this is what I keep saying. You make the stomp expensive but comparable to a titan then there aren't going to be many players bringing it to normal battles anyway. But if you make it like that new knight then at least it would be a useful troop to have an option in your mech army. In epic you usually have 3-5 in a squad so I presumed GW don't see them as titans. The gargant would make a cool titan though.

 lolman1c wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
I think the Stompa is fine where it is in points, points are a band-aid. They need an invuln of maybe a 5++, and either more wounds or better weapon profiles. I don't think their BS should get increased, just the weapon profiles, with points standing still.

this is what I keep saying. You make the stomp expensive but comparable to a titan then there aren't going to be many players bringing it to normal battles anyway. But if you make it like that new knight then at least it would be a useful troop to have an option in your mech army. In epic you usually have 3-5 in a squad so I presumed GW don't see them as titans. The gargant would make a cool titan though.

That's because GW screwed up naming etc when they made 40k versions. In epic(where they first came up) stompas were in terms of survivability LAND RAIDERS. That's it. Not titan level. Not even baneblade! Land raider.

If one wanted 40k names/ability to be roughly same the morkanaut/gorkanaut are actually stompa's and the 40k stompa would be supa-stompa(these were roughly warhound type of walkers). Then would be(in size order) mek-boy gargants, gargants, great gargant and heaven forbid at the idea of one at 40k battlefield mega gargant(somewhere between warlord and imperator)

 vaklor4 wrote:
I think the Stompa is fine where it is in points, points are a band-aid. They need an invuln of maybe a 5++, and either more wounds or better weapon profiles. I don't think their BS should get increased, just the weapon profiles, with points standing still.

I kind of agree, it doesn't really need an invulnerable save though. 40 wounds is a crapton of T8 wounds you need to get through, the issue is that it's completely useless once it has lost the first 20 wounds. If the guns and attacks were more powerful and it would degrade less quickly (at 50% and 25% wounds instead of 75%, 50% and 25%), I would be fine with paying 1k points for it. But currently it's inferior to any of the daemon primarchs, who cost less than half of what the stompa is.