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 d-usa wrote:
I’m sticking to my previous impeachment theory:

If stuff turns up, and the Dems come up ahead in the midterms, I can see the GOP come on board with impeachment. If they do, it won’t happen until after January 2019. The GOP wants Pence, and by not impeaching until Trump hits 2 years +1 day Pence will remain eligible for 2 more Terms of his own. So nothing will happen that would take 4 years away from Pence, but I can see the GOP cutting their losses and placing their bets on 10 years of Pence.

I would argue Pence is ultimately poisoned by association.

 Just Tony wrote:
but if there were less government run schools to fund, then maybe the schools left could have a higher caliber staff and curriculum.

Could. . . but wouldn't. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to see what DeVos and her ilk have done with privatized education.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
but if there were less government run schools to fund, then maybe the schools left could have a higher caliber staff and curriculum.

Could. . . but wouldn't. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to see what DeVos and her ilk have done with privatized education.

I think John Oliver has covered charter schools pretty well, and while they're not the same as private schools, I think it's a good example of what happens when schools are run basically for profit instead of for education.

You know things are going badly when you try and lie about the raid on your lawyer's house, and you can't even get back up from the lawyer himself.

In his rant, Trump claimed the FBI raid was a "break-in". But when he talked about what happened, Cohen said "I will tell you that members of the FBI that conducted the search and seizure were all extremely professional, courteous and respectful. And I thanked them at the conclusion."

Fun times ahead.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Yeah, what is more problematic is what FB collects outside of FB, like call history on phones with the app unrelated to FB and what sites you visit just because they might have an visible or invisible link to FB. The attempt to feign ignorance is likely the most annoying though.

Yeah, my point probably wasn't as clear as it should have been. I'm not trying to say its okay that's Facebook does this, I'm saying it was inevitable given what Facebook is.

A couple of weeks ago I was at a kid's party and there was a trampoline. A couple of the older boys thought it would be fun to jump on the trampoline at the same time, and do chest bumps. About the third attempt they misjudged and smashed their faces together. It isn't okay that they got hurt and everyone did everything they should to fix it, but there was also a really strong feeling that the initial idea made the end result really inevitable.

That's the feeling I have about what's happening with Facebook. Of course some sleazy people were going to use a really large supply of personal data for some really sleazy purposes, and of course a company under pressure to meet multi-billion revenue targets was going to look the other way when they learned a purchaser of data was planning on using it for nefarious purposes.

 LordofHats wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I’m sticking to my previous impeachment theory:

If stuff turns up, and the Dems come up ahead in the midterms, I can see the GOP come on board with impeachment. If they do, it won’t happen until after January 2019. The GOP wants Pence, and by not impeaching until Trump hits 2 years +1 day Pence will remain eligible for 2 more Terms of his own. So nothing will happen that would take 4 years away from Pence, but I can see the GOP cutting their losses and placing their bets on 10 years of Pence.

I would argue Pence is ultimately poisoned by association.

Which is sad, given his fiscal track record in Indiana, it'd be nifty to apply that to the current budget issues.


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Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
but if there were less government run schools to fund, then maybe the schools left could have a higher caliber staff and curriculum.

Could. . . but wouldn't. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to see what DeVos and her ilk have done with privatized education.

At that point, you vote with your wallet. Like every other privatized service on the planet.

I realize I'm trying to pitch capitalist solutions to pro-socialist persons here, but since we AREN'T the EU, we need to work in the confines of the US economic system, and stick with what works.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Seems funny to me that when the trickle-down cuts were tried after the 29 crash, and in fact deepened the Great Depression, that politicians on both sides of the aisle recognized the abject failure which is why we went what. . . just a bit under 60 years without major trickle-down policy in place, and most of congress on board with the idea that some level of regulation in the economy was absolutely necessary.

My understanding is the tax cuts were put in place before the crash, and are something that some people claim is a cause of the crash. Which might be true, I've never studied the period in serious detail.

 sebster wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Yeah, what is more problematic is what FB collects outside of FB, like call history on phones with the app unrelated to FB and what sites you visit just because they might have an visible or invisible link to FB. The attempt to feign ignorance is likely the most annoying though.

Yeah, my point probably wasn't as clear as it should have been. I'm not trying to say its okay that's Facebook does this, I'm saying it was inevitable given what Facebook is.

A couple of weeks ago I was at a kid's party and there was a trampoline. A couple of the older boys thought it would be fun to jump on the trampoline at the same time, and do chest bumps. About the third attempt they misjudged and smashed their faces together. It isn't okay that they got hurt and everyone did everything they should to fix it, but there was also a really strong feeling that the initial idea made the end result really inevitable.

That's the feeling I have about what's happening with Facebook. Of course some sleazy people were going to use a really large supply of personal data for some really sleazy purposes, and of course a company under pressure to meet multi-billion revenue targets was going to look the other way when they learned a purchaser of data was planning on using it for nefarious purposes.

Agreed, but the amount of work that has gone into ignoring it if not just covering it up is just staggering. Its hard to assess the full extent but this time they might have broken laws in certain countries regarding privacy. But FB being FB and a monopoly means that they will just get away with it. The way Zuckerberg presents himself is also rubs me the wrong way, its all such a disingenous act.

 Just Tony wrote:
we need to work in the confines of the US economic system, and stick with what works.

Yeah, we'd really be able to have a modern, technological society if we just took a hatchet to literacy rates. Privatization, pretty much by definition, can't deliver service to all individuals and for certain things (like education) that's untenable.

I'll just wait for the "then we could just repeal child labor laws and kids could pull themselves up by their bootstraps!"

 Just Tony wrote:
At that point, you vote with your wallet. Like every other privatized service on the planet.

I realize I'm trying to pitch capitalist solutions to pro-socialist persons here, but since we AREN'T the EU, we need to work in the confines of the US economic system, and stick with what works.

Yeah, this is everything wrong with how people try to use economics. It isn't about competing factions, "I'm team capitalism so I cheer for team capitalist ideas". Economics is a toolset, a set of concepts and models that help people figure out how stuff works, why some stuff doesn't work, and what systems can be put in place to improve how stuff works.

The problem with the US system is that most funding comes from state and local governments. This means wealthy states provide a lot more funding, and kids unlucky enough to be born in poor areas end up poorly resourced schools. The fix is for the federal government to come in and establish a decent base level of funding for each kid, + more for an areas difficulties (poverty, geographic dispersion).

You might want to reply that in America that kind of federal intervention can't happen, and you'd be about 10% right. Because its already been about 90% implemented with NCLB. Everyone focused on the standardised testing nonsense, and missed that the real idea behind NCLB was to get federal funding in to schools to make sure there were resources there to actually help every kid. The problem is the idea was half implemented, the funding was an add on to existing sources, rather than the base amount. But most of the structure is in place.

Unfortunately, ideology and grift are happy bed fellows, and charter schools do a great job of selling their non-solution, and paying a lot of both Democrat and Republican congressmen to pretend it works. A stupid amount of money is flowing to those schools as a result, and the actual problems that cause the US to have middling results remain unaddressed.


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 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Agreed, but the amount of work that has gone into ignoring it if not just covering it up is just staggering. Its hard to assess the full extent but this time they might have broken laws in certain countries regarding privacy. But FB being FB and a monopoly means that they will just get away with it.

All true. And I think it was all entirely inevitable, caused by the very basic business model of Facebook.

The way Zuckerberg presents himself is also rubs me the wrong way, its all such a disingenous act.

This time last year the guy was sounding out a presidential run. It was probably never anything more than the idle dreams of a stupidly rich man, but it's interesting how far things have shifted.

Been a while since I posted on a US politics thread

and as I usually do, I will mostly comment on foreign policy, or in the USA's case, the complete vacuum of a coherent strategy.

The mood music suggests that Trump will adopt the time honoured tradition of lobbing a few Cruise missiles at Syria in response to the chemical attack this week.

Everybody will nod in satisfaction that something has been done, the usual hacks and lackeys in the US media will claim the deaths of a few camels as a sign of the USA sticking it to Putin,

and students of American history like me, will remember Cordell Hull, the Marshall Plan, the Truman Doctrine, Reagan's Crusade, and be reminded of a time when the USA took its foreign policy seriously...

A couple of extra facts on the Cohen raid that might be of interest to people;

1) The investigators aren't just looking for info relating to the Stormy Daniels payment, but also for evidence of what Cohen and Trump might have known about the deal that kept Karen McDougal quiet. She sold her story to the parent company of the National Enquirer, but David Pecker the CEO only bought the story to bury it, as he's a close friend of Trump. It's been suggested for a while now that Cohen and Trump knew about this deal, and McDougal's lawyer knew the deal was crooked but failed to tell his client. If any of this is true and records of Cohen's emails establish it, then we're talking a whole other set of charges for everyone involved, in addition to the election breaches that may have resulted from the payments to Daniels.

2) The FBI's public corruption squad is directly involved in the review of evidence found in the raid on Cohen. Cohen is not a public official. So these guys are there helping to build the case against some public official. No prizes as to who.


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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Been a while since I posted on a US politics thread

That's because there hasn't been one.

 sebster wrote:
A couple of extra facts on the Cohen raid that might be of interest to people;

1) The investigators aren't just looking for info relating to the Stormy Daniels payment, but also for evidence of what Cohen and Trump might have known about the deal that kept Karen McDougal quiet. She sold her story to the parent company of the National Enquirer, but David Pecker the CEO only bought the story to bury it, as he's a close friend of Trump. It's been suggested for a while now that Cohen and Trump knew about this deal, and McDougal's lawyer knew the deal was crooked but failed to tell his client. If any of this is true and records of Cohen's emails establish it, then we're talking a whole other set of charges for everyone involved, in addition to the election breaches that may have resulted from the payments to Daniels.

2) The FBI's public corruption squad is directly involved in the review of evidence found in the raid on Cohen. Cohen is not a public official. So these guys are there helping to build the case against some public official. No prizes as to who.


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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Been a while since I posted on a US politics thread

That's because there hasn't been one.

I know, Seb, I know.

In response to your other point, and it's something I've wanted to say for a while, but is this Trump/Russia circus still rumbling on?

I'll be surprised if it adds up to anything more than a hill of beans. Short of murder or burning the declaration of independence, the only way Trump is leaving 1600 is if he loses the next election.

A lot of people seem to be fantasizing about Watergate, but when it's all said and done, a few junior officials will be sacrificed for the 'greater good,' there'll be the usual hand wringing about lessons learned, committees will be formed, and everybody will promise not to do it again.

And Trump will be fine. Only the lawyers and FBI agents working over time will profit from this.

 sebster wrote:

The way Zuckerberg presents himself is also rubs me the wrong way, its all such a disingenous act.

This time last year the guy was sounding out a presidential run. It was probably never anything more than the idle dreams of a stupidly rich man, but it's interesting how far things have shifted.

Even back then it was a real headscratcher, nothing he stands for really makes him stand out from the crowd, he has zero experience in government and is terrible in public which is not so handy for a potential politician. His only claim to fame is FB, which would have given him a pretty incredible tool to campaign with though, given that he could hold full control of whatever campaign adds would be allowed. But even being the guy behind FB, how many people could realistically pick out his face from a crowd?

 Just Tony wrote:
At that point, you vote with your wallet. Like every other privatized service on the planet.

That's not how it works. You can't vote with your wallet because unlike, say, 40k models education is not optional. You have to have it, no matter bad the local options are. Your only choice if the local options are unacceptable is to move to another area, assuming you have the financial ability to do so. For-profit schools serving people without the ability to pay for elite private schools have all the incentive to cut quality as much as possible to keep profits high, and you have to keep buying. The inevitable outcome of privatization is that a wealthy minority get to have a decent education, while most people are trapped in a cycle of minimal education leading to zero job prospects leading to zero ability to pay for their kids to get better education and escape the cycle.

I realize I'm trying to pitch capitalist solutions to pro-socialist persons here, but since we AREN'T the EU, we need to work in the confines of the US economic system, and stick with what works.

If the US economic system doesn't allow a functioning school system then it's time to end the US economic system and replace it with socialism.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


In response to your other point, and it's something I've wanted to say for a while, but is this Trump/Russia circus still rumbling on?

I'll be surprised if it adds up to anything more than a hill of beans. Short of murder or burning the declaration of independence, the only way Trump is leaving 1600 is if he loses the next election.

A lot of people seem to be fantasizing about Watergate, but when it's all said and done, a few junior officials will be sacrificed for the 'greater good,' there'll be the usual hand wringing about lessons learned, committees will be formed, and everybody will promise not to do it again.

And Trump will be fine. Only the lawyers and FBI agents working over time will profit from this.

I dunno, Trump being a threat seems to be the only think both parties (and most Americans) can agree on. Like those who posted before me, I put money on the Republicans beginning the impeachment process in order to save themselves, as soon as they find evidence to allow it. Pence is damaged goods, so no one really cares about giving him 10 years.


In slightly lighter, but just as irritating, Pennsylvania has its Dog Wardens going door-to-door checking for current licences for dogs. Yes, you have to pay for a licence here, either yearly, or lifetime (its $31.50 for the lifetime licence). If you aren't licenced, its a $300 fine. Granted, this cost funds the animan control program for each county, and also state inspections of kennels and such. But door-to-door is a bit excessive in my opinion

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


In response to your other point, and it's something I've wanted to say for a while, but is this Trump/Russia circus still rumbling on?

I'll be surprised if it adds up to anything more than a hill of beans. Short of murder or burning the declaration of independence, the only way Trump is leaving 1600 is if he loses the next election.

A lot of people seem to be fantasizing about Watergate, but when it's all said and done, a few junior officials will be sacrificed for the 'greater good,' there'll be the usual hand wringing about lessons learned, committees will be formed, and everybody will promise not to do it again.

And Trump will be fine. Only the lawyers and FBI agents working over time will profit from this.

I dunno, Trump being a threat seems to be the only think both parties (and most Americans) can agree on. Like those who posted before me, I put money on the Republicans beginning the impeachment process in order to save themselves, as soon as they find evidence to allow it. Pence is damaged goods, so no one really cares about giving him 10 years.


In slightly lighter, but just as irritating, Pennsylvania has its Dog Wardens going door-to-door checking for current licences for dogs. Yes, you have to pay for a licence here, either yearly, or lifetime (its $31.50 for the lifetime licence). If you aren't licenced, its a $300 fine. Granted, this cost funds the animan control program for each county, and also state inspections of kennels and such. But door-to-door is a bit excessive in my opinion

Let's say for argument's sake that you and the other posters are right, and that the GOP ditches Trump to save their own skin.

The question is: who do they get to replace Trump?

Can I remind people that the GOP candidates at the last election were utterly hopeless. Feeble. Not fit to run a bath, never mind run a super power. 12 traffic cones wrapped in the Stars and Stripes could have ran a better campaign.

Trump, this outsider, this buffoon, emerged from nowhere and picked off the GOP approved candidates one by one with total ease.

Why? Because the GOP is a hollowed out shell, a travesty of what it used to be.

If the American people had any sense, the GOP and the Democrats would be swept away and replaced by new parties. They've long passed their sell by date, and they're now starting to stink the country up.

Here in the UK, we have the exact same situation with our two main parties.

PS

The scary thing for the USA and the GOP is that any future candidate will look at Trump, judge his actions and words to be the path to success, and then double down on that

In 20-30 years, we could have a situation that any future POTUS candidate is so awful, they'll make Trump look like FDR, in much the same way that some people are yearning for GW Bush!

It's what comes after Trump that should worry American dakka members on this forum...

So Trump has essentially confirmed US attacks are on the way. In the thread I opened that, as usual, got closed, I said the air strikes would happen pretty much right away. It looks like its going to take a bit for assets to get moved into place (Like the Truman).

Should be interesting to say the least. The US has assets all over the region while Russia's is kind of confined. They will have ships off the coast so will probably be able to eye ball the launches. They have threatened to retaliate against the sources of those launches, and that could be why the Truman is heading there. I know the Russians have launched cruise missiles from subs from off the coast so I am sure one or two of those will be there. And with our carrier groups, we'll have some too.

And this follows the point I am trying to make about how things have changed with Russia. If the Russians shoot down some missiles, we'll just launch more. If they attack the sources of them, which is a huge escalation, they can kiss everything they have in the middle east goodbye. The same level of animosity the US showed the Wagner Group will be brought to the rest of the Russian units. What happens next I don't know. I am sure there will be all sorts of aerial stuff over the Baltics, Bering Strait, and so on. I think that is also part of the reason Trump has cancelled his trip to Peru. This isn't just a simple cruise missile launch.

On the other hand, if Russia is unable or holds back while the US wrecks far more than they did last time, not only will they look weak in front of everyone, they will continue to empower Trump/US military to take action when it wants.

You cannot look at current event without looking back at previous events to understand how things came to be. I think the groundwork is being laid out for some nasty stuff ahead. Trump and Putin are pretty much like mafia dons, who do not like to be disrespected. And what do mafia dons do when disrespected? They send messages.

Do I think this will lead to all out war? No, but it will get messy.

You guys really think that Republicans in Congress are going to vote to impeach a Republican President who, as of the week ending on April 8, is polling at 89% job approval with Republicans? There is no way that Republican politicians turn on Trump before their Republican constituents do. I don’t know what it will take to make Republican voters turn on Trump but until they do Republicans in Congress aren’t going to impeach him.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Trump, this outsider, this buffoon, emerged from nowhere and picked off the GOP approved candidates one by one with total ease.

Why? Because the GOP is a hollowed out shell, a travesty of what it used to be.

If the American people had any sense, the GOP and the Democrats would be swept away and replaced by new parties. They've long passed their sell by date, and they're now starting to stink the country up.

PS

It's what comes after Trump that should worry American dakka members on this forum...

These are probably the most true statements to be made on this subject. Have an exalt.

KTG17 wrote:
And this follows the point I am trying to make about how things have changed with Russia. If the Russians shoot down some missiles, we'll just launch more. If they attack the sources of them, which is a huge escalation, they can kiss everything they have in the middle east goodbye. It same level of animosity the US showed the Wagner Group will be brought to the rest of the Russian units. What happens next I don't know. I am sure there will be all sorts of aerial stuff over the Baltics, Bering Strait, and so on. I think that is also part of the reason Trump has cancelled his trip to Peru. This isn't just a simple cruise missile launch.

Is it really that different from Russian rethoric the last few years though? The threatening with nukes, the threatening with tank divisions rolling through Europe, threatening to shoot down NATO jets in Syria after one of theirs got downed by Turkey. The aerial stuff has been ongoing since 2014 as well, with Russia getting incredibly reckless and grabbing headlines with dangerous aircraft manouvers close to NATO counterparts. Sure the bear can growl and roar a lot, but why is this the moment they are going to bite? Putin has zero to gain from stepping in between Assad and a limited US strike.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Is it really that different from Russian rethoric the last few years though? The threatening with nukes, the threatening with tank divisions rolling through Europe, threatening to shoot down NATO jets in Syria after one of theirs got downed by Turkey. The aerial stuff has been ongoing since 2014 as well, with Russia getting incredibly reckless and grabbing headlines with dangerous aircraft manouvers close to NATO counterparts. Sure the bear can growl and roar a lot, but why is this the moment they are going to bite? Putin has zero to gain from stepping in between Assad and a limited US strike.

I think its different, or at least building up to be. Its pretty crazy to think where we are even at right now, so I don't think its too extreme to guess where we will be.




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Prestor Jon wrote:
You guys really think that Republicans in Congress are going to vote to impeach a Republican President who, as of the week ending on April 8, is polling at 89% job approval with Republicans? There is no way that Republican politicians turn on Trump before their Republican constituents do. I don’t know what it will take to make Republican voters turn on Trump but until they do Republicans in Congress aren’t going to impeach him.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

Paul Ryan isnt seeking re-election. I wonder if either he is tired of things, or wants to stay clear of them. Or maybe both. It could be a sign how messed up things are going to be for them.


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This is interesting:

https://theaviationist.com/2018/04/11/sabers-rattle-as-new-round-of-brinkmanship-appears-to-unfold-off-syrian-coast/

Someone should take Trump's twitter away. He's veering wildly on Syria/Russia:

Donald Trump on Twitter:
Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and “smart!” You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!

Within the same hour:

Our relationship with Russia is worse now than it has ever been, and that includes the Cold War. There is no reason for this. Russia needs us to help with their economy, something that would be very easy to do, and we need all nations to work together. Stop the arms race?

Uhhhh.... ok then.

Sounds like he is getting a little sad about what is about to be unleashed.

Sounds like a man that doesn't remember what he did a week ago. Just a few days ago the US sanctioned Russia, now Russia needs the help of the US which is very easy? Stop the arms race, said by a man who is pushing the US defense budget higher than it has ever been and wants to build smaller usable nukes? What?

A little fething sad? Jesus fething christ I may love the movie 'Mad Max' but I don't wanna live it. I'm gonna vomit at work today at this rate.

No, I think he is pretty transparent. I think he, like most of us, goes through a period of reflection about things and is quick to talk about it. I am sure Obama, Bush, Clinton, all went through it just didn't post it on twitter.

There are periods of reflection and making a 180 so fast that it sounds like two different people. It shouldn't happen this fast or that extreme. He's the leader of the strongest country in the world with a host of international responsibilities. You can't just go from "I'm going to blow the gak out of you" to "poor guys, we can help" in half an hour, its incredibly unstable and dangerous with the power he wields. If he really does reflect he wouldn't have tweeted those things in the first place. He isn't just a citizen anymore, he has responsibilities that go beyond just him as a person with opinions.

Well, regardless of what he is, he is still an emotional guy who is still new to politics.

Not defending him here, just speculating as to why he says what he says.

The decision to bomb Syria was made a couple of days ago. I am sure several times since he has thought about what he has ordered, and feels bad about what is to come and how we got here. I am sure at times Putin (for different reasons) does too, but doesn't show it.

Clinton didn't do some of the things he should have, I am sure Bush was kept up at night over what was happening in Iraq, and even Obama dropped leaflets over ISIS oil trucks warning them they were about to be bombed. Despite welding all that power they are still human and even though have made a decision, no doubt understand what is going to follow. Its just most do not talk about that guilt.

There is a terrible Michael Douglas movie about him being president... but in the movie he orders some arab country's intelligence service building to be bombed in retaliation for something they did. They decide to do it at night to limit casualties. After saying, "This is a very strong and presidential action you are making", Douglass responds how some custodian is going to be cleaning the floors when the bombs hit, and had nothing to do with what happened, while the decision makers are home asleep, and he feels bad about that.

While just a movie, I am sure that goes on a lot in the White House.

He's been running for two years and a President for almost 1.5 years. There is a moment that being new just doesn't cut it anymore. There has been zero improvement in his way of communicating. When he did it on the campaign trail people could still laugh about it, when he does it now he offends allies and causes the stock market to lose millions.

Also I doubt Trump, the man that is pro torture and killing the family members of terrorists would feel bad about dropping a few bombs. Clinton, Bush and Obama, while still killing people, were on entirely different levels of morality at least.

I also doubt Trump feels guilt regarding this topic seeing as how he refuses to accept refugees from Syria into the US, the very people he suddenly pretends to care about. Actions speak louder than empty words. The problem is that Trump just doesn't really seem to care, not that he cares too much.

I don't understand this bizarre fantasy that the republicans are going to want to impeach President Trump. And even if they wanted to, for what crime?