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I would argue that there is an actual difference between active genocide, and simply not caring if people die.

So much for the "Trump only meant MS-13 when he called them animals" narrative.



And this was from last February.

Does the US federal government keep all its records on paper?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Does the US federal government keep all its records on paper?

I think it is starting to switch to other mediums, I know the LoC is for sure

Its quickly becoming a soap opera. The "will they, won't they?" North Korea-US summit saga continues:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44257383

US President Donald Trump has said his summit with North Korea's leader could still happen on 12 June, despite earlier cancelling the meeting.

"We'll see what happens. It could even be the 12th. We're talking to them now. They very much want to do it, we'd like to do it," he told reporters.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Does the US federal government keep all its records on paper?

There's a lot that's electronic, but there's still a lot that's also on paper. There are still a lot of outdated policies that require things like original signatures and such on important forms. My own agency is getting better at adopting electronic signatures, but we're only halfway there, and it'll still be a few years before our next big step.

Crispy78 wrote:
Right, what is ICE doing? Can anyone explain this in a way that doesn't make it sound like Auschwitz 2.0 in the making?

https://twitter.com/yonatanzunger/status/999827396046995456?s=19

The answer to your question is: no. ICE has been building precisely the kind of infrastructure you need for concentration camps.

Crispy78 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
Right, what is ICE doing? Can anyone explain this in a way that doesn't make it sound like Auschwitz 2.0 in the making?

I think that's a fairly odious comparison.

The story from a month ago.

Why are ICE actively separating migrant children from their families in the first place?

https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border-patrol-abuses/ice-separates-18-month-old-mother-months

The whole idea seems to be 'no one's going to want to come to this country if we make ourselves a crueler, worse place to be'.

ICE is awful.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
If you're hoping to steer me into agreeing that the US government is trying to herd immigrant children into death camps, then I'm going to disappoint you.

Will you deny that it's already done that once before with Native Children?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/army-begins-unearthing-remains-of-children-killed-at-carlisle-indian-school-20170808.html

https://www.indianz.com/News/2013/09/05/native-sun-news-death-rate-cov.asp

It feels like you're trying to equate my refusal that the US government is currrently organizing concentration camps for migrant children as apologism for atrocities the government committed 150 years ago.

I'd like to be able to just say no, of course the government did lots of horrific things in the history of the country, but then I've also got to acknowledge the mistreatment of Chinese railroad workers and then slavery and so on and I really only have so much time to spend on these forums that I'd prefer not to have to try to hit an endlessly moving target of victimhood whataboutism.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Does the US federal government keep all its records on paper?

I can name at least one agency that almost completely does, and it's 100% intentional because this country is just dumb as gak sometimes.

 Ouze wrote:

 sebster wrote:
For all his talk of growing jobs, they're growing slower than Obama's last five years in office. That isn't Trump's fault, the economy is leveling off, but it should make clear to people that a lot of economic activity is beyond the control of any president. Meanwhile, Trump did claim that the cut to corporate taxes were great because they'd drive up wages, yet wage growth just took a sudden turn for stagnation, which is almost impossible to understand in an economy nearing full capacity.

The net result of all that is basically all Trump has done is inherit an economy reaching peak activity, then pass a tax cut that means even in the best economic times the US has an unsustainable deficit.

This is where your hateful, left wing-bias really comes through. If it weren't for that tax cut, American companies wouldn't have been able to increase wages for their workers and invest the way they have.

#maga

Hey, it's change I can believe in!

 Ouze wrote:

It feels like you're trying to equate my refusal that the US government is currrently organizing concentration camps for migrant children as apologism for atrocities the government committed 150 years ago.

Why are you refusing to believe this? You admit there is considerable precedent and the various reports of ICE's activities and lack of oversight are certainly troubling.

You're asking why I don't think the US government is establishing concentration camps for migrant children? Because I'm not a fething idiot, I guess.

There is a difference between ICE doing bad things and saying we're at Nazi level concentration camps.

 daedalus wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 sebster wrote:
For all his talk of growing jobs, they're growing slower than Obama's last five years in office. That isn't Trump's fault, the economy is leveling off, but it should make clear to people that a lot of economic activity is beyond the control of any president. Meanwhile, Trump did claim that the cut to corporate taxes were great because they'd drive up wages, yet wage growth just took a sudden turn for stagnation, which is almost impossible to understand in an economy nearing full capacity.

The net result of all that is basically all Trump has done is inherit an economy reaching peak activity, then pass a tax cut that means even in the best economic times the US has an unsustainable deficit.

This is where your hateful, left wing-bias really comes through. If it weren't for that tax cut, American companies wouldn't have been able to increase wages for their workers and invest the way they have.

#maga

Hey, it's change I can believe in!

The article is exactly what my Mega-Corporation decided to do with the Tax Break as well. From the article:

Days later, Harley-Davidson announced a dividend increase and a stock buyback plan to reward shareholders, repurchasing 15 million of its shares, valued at nearly $700 million.

They were very open about it at the all-corporate meetings.

I guess if your sole Presidnetial "accomplishment" is the economy based on the success of the Stock Market.... i guess that is one way to juice your own "success" as a President.

In this country... separating parents from their childrens happens all the time... especially when said parents breaks the law and goes to jail.

Quick, device a system where you have to deal with families, including children, in a detained setting. Also, you aren't allowed to build new detention centers, you must figure out how to use the ones you've got.

One solution is to release the children into the custody of guardians - usually family, but sometimes not. And sometimes - not always, but not a trivial number - those children do not appear for their court dates.

Pick your poison... you want DHS/HHS to keep track of them? Okay, they'll stay in detention with their parents until their court date.

Oh? That's inhumane?? Well.. they can be released to guardians. Which means DHS/HHS can't watch them and ensure they make their court date to adjudicate their immigration status.

Also, force the families to go back instead - (if they're attempting to claim asylum, which most are...) is a no-go either, as it would be a horrible policy. They're here... now what?

 Ouze wrote:
You're asking why I don't think the US government is establishing concentration camps for migrant children? Because I'm not a fething idiot, I guess.

Hm.

 whembly wrote:
In this country... separating parents from their childrens happens all the time... especially when said parents breaks the law and goes to jail.

Quick, device a system where you have to deal with families, including children, in a detained setting. Also, you aren't allowed to build new detention centers, you must figure out how to use the ones you've got.

One solution is to release the children into the custody of guardians - usually family, but sometimes not. And sometimes - not always, but not a trivial number - those children do not appear for their court dates.

Pick your poison... you want DHS/HHS to keep track of them? Okay, they'll stay in detention with their parents until their court date.

Oh? That's inhumane?? Well.. they can be released to guardians. Which means DHS/HHS can't watch them and ensure they make their court date to adjudicate their immigration status.

Better idea: not nabbing people and throwing them into detention under shady circumstances.

I think it's pretty clear that every single child that DHS loses track of gets promptly shoved into an oven, no exceptions.

Man WTF, you guys.

 Ouze wrote:
I think it's pretty clear that every single child that DHS loses track of gets promptly shoved into an oven, no exceptions.

Man WTF, you guys.

Hey, its happy hour somewhere this friday

 Ouze wrote:
I think it's pretty clear that every single child that DHS loses track of gets promptly shoved into an oven, no exceptions.

Man WTF, you guys.

Wait... don't they get on trains first or something?

Rosebuddy wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
You're asking why I don't think the US government is establishing concentration camps for migrant children? Because I'm not a fething idiot, I guess.

Hm.

That didn't quite come out the way I meant it, re-reading. To be clear, I'm not saying you're an idiot, or implying it; just that I think this "Auschwitz 2.0" theory is absolutely pants on head Alex Jones style crazy talk. This country did some awful things and still does some rather crappy things but that is really, really out there.

Rosebuddy wrote:


Better idea: not nabbing people and throwing them into detention under shady circumstances.

I totally agree. I think this policy of separating the minor children serves no serious, useful purpose other than cruelty. I would prefer to see the current sort of ridiculous barriers to legal immigration be substantially relaxed rather than this weird action we have currently where a family fleeing Honduras is treated as if they're Osama bin Laden.

(Edit - that was hyperbole, I'm not saying the Navy Seals are dropping out of helicopters and shooting migrant children)

 Easy E wrote:

I guess if your sole Presidnetial "accomplishment" is the economy based on the success of the Stock Market.... i guess that is one way to juice your own "success" as a President.

And really, the success of "the stock market"* doesn't help anyone above the upper half or so of the population, really. The guy making a lifetime of pumping gas with no 401(k) and no investments gets virtually nothing out of this. Meanwhile, I see jobs lost and am lubing up for what things are going to look like when the fallout once the trade war hits full stride.

* I don't know what the feth the stock market is here, but everyone keeps repeating it. I assume that it's referring to securities, and not, like, commodities or forex? Doesn't unjustifiable rise there usually imply that there's an impending crash when overconfidence in the market suddenly shrinks back down? I know barely enough about this kind of stuff to know I don't know for sure WTF it implies.

 Ouze wrote:

That didn't quite come out the way I meant it, re-reading. To be clear, I'm not saying you're an idiot, or implying it; just that I think this "Auschwitz 2.0" theory is absolutely pants on head Alex Jones style crazy talk. This country did some awful things and still does some rather crappy things but that is really, really out there.

I actually don't think they are either, but at the same time to dismiss it out of hand is also a bad idea. After all, reading through the Nuremberg tribunal testimony, a lot of Nazis dismissed the idea that they were committing genocide even as they aided in the commission of genocide. Things got that pidgeonholed.

As far as paper documents in government, not all agencies do, some, such as SSA had been storing it on ten million miles of microfilm. The decay of said microfilm is why documents have been lost, and digital copies are being made.

And then there's the Office of Personnel Management, who's offices literally overflow with actual paper documents, and covers an area bigger than a football field with filing cabinets stacked four and five high.

Veterans Affairs actually had a concrete building collapse under the weight of it's documents.

At this point, president Trump may have to send all "alien" childs to North Korea the 12th June instead of him. Or at a later date, who knows, we'll see.

Nonsense ? Yeah, pretty much. America is totally unreliable to anyone in the world with the Orange in charge. Allies, enemies.. it doesn't matter.

Wonder how much you americans will be able to endure before you finally stand up and say "enough".

 Sarouan wrote:

Wonder how much you americans will be able to endure before you finally stand up and say "enough".

Based on my own experience, until he starts gaking himself on live TV, while screaming incoherently about how the government must all die! He'd still get about 20% support at that point, just because 20% of the population gives no gaks but wants to troll the other 80%

Hell some people can't wait for the end of the world because they're convinced the "dam liberuls" won't survive it, so Trump has a pretty safe supporter base regardless.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:

Wonder how much you americans will be able to endure before you finally stand up and say "enough".

Based on my own experience, until he starts gaking himself on live TV, while screaming incoherently about how the government must all die! He'd still get about 20% support at that point, just because 20% of the population gives no gaks but wants to troll the other 80%

his approval rating would probably actually go up in GOP circles, starve the beast!



But more seriously, people have been standing up since election day, and the fundamental mechanisms of checks and balances (or Deep State if you prefer) of government are rolling. We'll see where it all ends up, but people have been standing up for a while.

 Ouze wrote:
I think it's pretty clear that every single child that DHS loses track of gets promptly shoved into an oven, no exceptions.

Man WTF, you guys.

I don't mean to say that ICE is currently operating extermination camps. Not that I know yet, anyway. I'm saying that what they are doing is building all the infrastructure needed to get there. Both the practical side of assembling a corps of unaccountable agents to whisk off undesirables and of the propaganda effort to mark a population as undesirable. Not caring precisely how it was done and wanting a part of the population just gone was how the Nazis ended up with the extermination camps, after all. We already know that ICE doesn't much care whether the people they take die. There aren't many steps more needed for that to become inofficial policy and then official policy.

Why does ICE need to build any camps? Can't they just use FEMA's?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Why does ICE need to build any camps? Can't they just use FEMA's?

No, the Illuminati need those for when they assert total control over the government and enslave the citizenry.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Why does ICE need to build any camps? Can't they just use FEMA's?

No, the Illuminati need those for when they assert total control over the government and enslave the citizenry.

I thought the Illuminati was just a front for the Berenstain, er, Berenstein Bears?