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I for one still hate AoS it can burn in a fire.

AoS is great. It's in a much better place than 40k right now.

 Fafnir wrote:
AoS is great. It's in a much better place than 40k right now.

Some nice models held back by a bland and boring ruleset ?

I’d say it’s in exactly the same place as 40k right now.

 Fafnir wrote:
AoS is great. It's in a much better place than 40k right now.

The fires of Hell are a good place for AoS, it is true.

#oldworld4life

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Did you honestly think 7th edition was going to exist forever? I've got books from 3rd I can't use, woe is me. The 6th-7th cycle of replacing the ruleset was not typical. 3rd and 4th had 6 years between them, 4th to 5th and 5th to 6th had 4 years apeace.

I highly doubt 9th ed will come in 2019, since GW is willing to change rules and points via errata and chapter approved now. Once all the codexes come out there will probably be mini-dexes, or a re-release of the Space Marine codex.

They sell a lot of books.
Books are cheap to produce on demand,
especially when done poorly.
Books make money.
I bet they will do what it takes to make more books.
I bet that we will see an updated official rulebook
that people like us will call 9th edition,
and we will see it soon.

So much salt! 8th is pretty great: the relative balance and constant updates/recosting of units is on another level from previous incarnations, armies are finally getting rules that reflect their fluff (regiments, cults, dynasties, etc.) and CPs and strategems are a great addition to the game.

 Formosa wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
AoS is great. It's in a much better place than 40k right now.

Some nice models held back by a bland and boring ruleset ?

I’d say it’s in exactly the same place as 40k right now.

It's considerably less homogeneous than 40k, and the ruleset is far better for the scope and range of firepower it brings to the table. It's far better than it was at launch. In fact, it's far better than it was even a year ago.

No, its not.
Its a bloated board game.
No need to maneuver a tank since facing is no issue anymore.
Its too simplistic for my liking. It is lacking depth.
Just place your (bubble-wrapped) LRBTs as central as possible and shoot the enemy into peaces.
The worst edition since 3rd ed for my liking.
The 7th ed was the other extreme but it was much more challenging.

Best editon by far.

Finally a challenging Psy phase, a more developed fight phase, better cover system , better AP system, meaningful HQs, no deathstars, excellent missions in CA...

Yeah, if it had just a little more in the vehicle facing department, it would be hard to think of a better edition.

The biggest problem of this edition is AoS, it's such a good game that i'm always torn between playing one or the other.

Some hate and some love 8th edition and some hate and some love 7th edition - there are of course those in-between who don't have strong feelings for either, but are the editions so far from each other, that they could merit two different editions for two different types of people released at the same time? It didn't had to be the exact rules of 7th and 8th edition, just rules which are significantly different...
Or would it not raise the satisfaction and purchasing power of the consumers?

AoS is possibly the worst game ever created. I could eat alphabet soup and gak out a more in depth and coherent rules set. The worst part is that they destroyed their best game for it, and they’re somehow proud of it.

Old World for life!

8th ed 40 is “better” in some aspects and worse in others than it’s predecessors. I will say that I am having more fun with it, but I find some things to be frustrating.

Pros:
-movement value is back
-split fire on everything
-degenerating monsters/vehicles
-AP system
-stratagems

Cons:
-terrible terrain rules
-cover seems to largely make no sense
-still stuck with an antiquated alternating turns system
-psychic phase that requires no thought at all to use. No dice/spell management system, so it’s just basically spam smite. But also nerf smite for some armies because we couldn’t figure out how to make a good psychic system.
-a morale phase that is basically useless. Why even have this in the game if you are just going to remove psychology as a whole?
-Ridiculous targeting restrictions on characters because they removed the ability for characters to join units. All they had to do was keep characters in units. There’s no point of removing that.
-The unnecessary and overly complex change to dice modifiers where sometimes your plasma weapons overheat at night because reasons. They should have just kept the old way or rolling dice. A 1 is a 1, a 6 is a 6. It doesn’t change based on modifiers. It’s way more intuitive.

It’s all very frustrating. Whoever decided to go in this direction with AoS and 40k should honestly be fired.

8th is as good or bad as every other edition was in the middle of its life
We have a good chance to end up equal to the better or worst editions we had depending on what comes after the last old Codex

Main trade off from the past editions, replace Deathstars with Soup, and Monsters/Tanks with Mass Infantry


So for me its the worst Edition so far as 40k started as Squad sized game and is now a Bataillone/Division sized game that still uses rules made for a squad based game.

Increasing the size of the game and at the same time scaling the rules down to 1 model by 1 model was just a very bad idea

No. But it's early days yet and it's better than 7th.

It's also carrying a lot more baggage than earlier editions with the introduction of superheavies, flyers, and faction overload

5e had issues with objectives and gradually went down the pan with codex creep and parking lots but it gets my vote. Though it's also the edition where GW turned from light and went full Cruddace/Ward.

It is very good. The rules are pretty clean and the games go fast and it is mostly satisfying. Most things work logically and coherently until you get to the upper echelons of competitive play.

There are a few issues;
- terrain rules are just strange
- an abundance of long range heavy weaponry in certain armies
- I think the faction/detachment rules should be much tighter. You should only be able to get one faction per deployed army. I don't mind allies - it is often very fluffy - but you shouldn't get the benefits of a Custodes army and an Ultramarines one, for example.

I've never quit an edition as fast as I quit 8th, once codexes came out it was clear they lied about play testing and what we got wasn't a full game but a beta test.

8th is significantly better than 7th, but It is really hard to be 5th for me. It has it's pros and cons for sure.

I would say 8th has some excellent ground work, that they can take away the good and work on the bad for 7th. I much prefer a simpler ruleset, compared to the bloat that was 7th.

Troll thread.

While the game continues to resemble a board game with CCG core tenants injected into it, I cannot agree.

It's certainly the most playable edition I can remember for 40K, but GW seems hell bent on making it as complicated as possible with every codex release. It's somehow "streamlined" but still clunky. I'm not even sure how to describe it at this point. Playable but messy I guess.

I'd give it a big two thumbs up comparatively except it's frankly just boring as any game I've played in recent memory. As long as it's just another game on the shelf and I keep it about the models, terrain, etc... it's fine. Just don't think too much and you can have fun pushing your models around and rolling dice.

It is a great edition.

But I still think that the psychic is lacking some flavor, changing every damage power into a Dx mortal wound upon an enemy unit feels kinda bland. 7th did this slightly better in the variations spells had, I especially miss the beam spells. Really loved playing around with sorcerers on disks flying around shooting beams for days.

Best change for me is the removal of facings on vehicles, sure it was a great tactical part of 7th. But the inconsistency they had with it made vehicles absurdly bad and monstrous creatures absurdly good. Stuff like dreadknights and riptides being treated as monsters while clearly being walkers was not something to like.
8th does this a lot better with giving everything the same stat line but adding a degrading table to models with 10+ wounds.

Weapon profiles are a lot better now. Really like that they ported (an slightly altered version of) damage over from AoS. One of the better mechanics in that game.
Rend and the way cover works now are also great additions to the game. I do however agree that the terrain rules are a bit botched, but I can say the same about 7th.

Stratagems and the basic detachments are a great addition to the game and a good alternative on the formation system that in the end ruined 7th for me.

So while I'm not a old timer in 40k, only started at the end of 6th, 8th is a clear improvement of those two editions.

hobojebus wrote:
I've never quit an edition as fast as I quit 8th, once codexes came out it was clear they lied about play testing and what we got wasn't a full game but a beta test.

Grey Knight player?

I kid, I kid.

7th was a great edition, too. And then the codexes started rolling out and it just got more and more obscene. It was more codex leap-frog instead of creep. I, personally, hated the psychic phase in 7th, I preferred the old leadership test... so when they changed it to flat warp charge, I was pretty happy about it. Now it is faster, easier, and even the opponent has a say in the process... and it is still faster.

I was down for the start of 7th, and came back periodically, but every time the game was either some poor guy getting rolled by some untouchable deathstar or two people arguing about rules interaction. I've seen a lot less of both of those since 8th, and both of those things made the game quite a disappointing experience. I'll take it

Nope.

The character rules are stupid. Being able to hurt a titan with a swift left boot is stupid. Rolling vehicles into the same rules as everyone else was good... but removing facings from vehicles rather than adding them to everyone else is stupid. Arbitrary limitations on psychic powers (Hey, Phil, I was gonna cast that one! Now I gotta think of something else to do!) are stupid. Primaris Marines are stupid.

I really, really wanted to like 8th edition after the mess of 6th/7th, and the early indications prior to release were largely promising... but what we got just has too many wrong turns and too many arbitrary restrictions in place of actual structure, and I just can't see the appeal in that.

 Fafnir wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
AoS is great. It's in a much better place than 40k right now.

Some nice models held back by a bland and boring ruleset ?

I’d say it’s in exactly the same place as 40k right now.

It's considerably less homogeneous than 40k, and the ruleset is far better for the scope and range of firepower it brings to the table. It's far better than it was at launch. In fact, it's far better than it was even a year ago.

I know, I still play it, but its a game held back by its lack of depth and I would much prefer a more complicated AOS game, but thats probably just me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and come on people, 7th rules were not that bad, it was the CODEXS !!! that caused most of the issues, the main ruleset had a few problems but they could have been easily fixed.

I personally love 8th edition more than all the other editions(well, I can't speak for Rogue Trader as I never played that one), warts and all. Mostly because 8th edition tends to have less gak going on and more focus on just having an enjoyable experience.

Hell, I even enjoy Age of Sigmar a lot after initially having reservations about it.

There is one thing I think 8th and AoS have over many other games: Green Fields. By having the core ruleset simple they have a chance to build on top of it and make it more interesting instead of throwing together an overtly cumbersome and complex ruleset for the sake of complexity.

I am already seeing this happen in AoS. The ruleset is dead simple, but they are slowly learning how they can flex and modify it with the new stuff, and in turn they are making the game complex in an organic way.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I personally love 8th edition more than all the other editions(well, I can't speak for Rogue Trader as I never played that one), warts and all. Mostly because 8th edition tends to have less gak going on and more focus on just having an enjoyable experience.

Hell, I even enjoy Age of Sigmar a lot after initially having reservations about it.

There is one thing I think 8th and AoS have over many other games: Green Fields. By having the core ruleset simple they have a chance to build on top of it and make it more interesting instead of throwing together an overtly cumbersome and complex ruleset for the sake of complexity.

I am already seeing this happen in AoS. The ruleset is dead simple, but they are slowly learning how they can flex and modify it with the new stuff, and in turn they are making the game complex in an organic way.

100% agree with this. However I think with AOS a lot more thought has gone into how each new book works. Not every book is a hit but they are firing on all cylinders with it. In 40k the codices feel rushed and a little messy(although the spirit of getting everything released ASAP is to be respected). The layers of complexity being added feel a bit cumbersome in certain spots, particularly surrounding army composition.

For AoS, GW learned that minis alone do not make people playing it and they need to bring good rules to stop the game from dying

40k is selling good enough and just the announcement of "new style GW" brought people back, so no one really cares about the rules as long as sales are going well

 Formosa wrote:

Oh and come on people, 7th rules were not that bad, it was the CODEXS !!! that caused most of the issues, the main ruleset had a few problems but they could have been easily fixed.

same as 8th edition core rules are not that bad
and using 8th core rules with Index Power Points on small scale (50 PP) is still a good game

the advanced and codex rules that are killing it

7th edi core rules are fine, that is why HorusHeresy is still a very good game

100% agree with this. However I think with AOS a lot more thought has gone into how each new book works. Not every book is a hit but they are firing on all cylinders with it. In 40k the codices feel rushed and a little messy(although the spirit of getting everything released ASAP is to be respected). The layers of complexity being added feel a bit cumbersome in certain spots, particularly surrounding army composition.

Yep, 40k is encumbered by the problem of having to give us updated codexes in a hurry, but AoS does have the reverse problem where existing armies still don't have representation yet. I think a problem with AoS is that there are ton of people who have fantasy models, but aren't really being supported by a proper battletome. I at least feel it with my Dark Elves. Can't really use any of them until now where I can use a portion for Daughter's of Khaine.

I find 8th to be okay. It's less of a cluster than 7th was in some ways, but the "depth" is extremely shallow, terrain might as well not exist, and it's quickly becoming an unbalanced mess just like all its predecessors.

Purifying Tempest wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
I've never quit an edition as fast as I quit 8th, once codexes came out it was clear they lied about play testing and what we got wasn't a full game but a beta test.

Grey Knight player?

I kid, I kid.

7th was a great edition, too. And then the codexes started rolling out and it just got more and more obscene. It was more codex leap-frog instead of creep. I, personally, hated the psychic phase in 7th, I preferred the old leadership test... so when they changed it to flat warp charge, I was pretty happy about it. Now it is faster, easier, and even the opponent has a say in the process... and it is still faster.

I was down for the start of 7th, and came back periodically, but every time the game was either some poor guy getting rolled by some untouchable deathstar or two people arguing about rules interaction. I've seen a lot less of both of those since 8th, and both of those things made the game quite a disappointing experience. I'll take it

Nah vlka frenryka!

I won't get my codex till October if gossip proves true, not that I have any faith they'll deliver a codex that'll bring me back.

In terms of advancement of story and miniatures? Yes.
Yes the Primarus Marines are horrible fluff wise, but the miniatures are fantastic. We are past 999 M41, the custodies are out and about, we have a Primarch back and things are still nice and grim dark with just a pin prick of light.
Also, Plastic Sisters of Battle. Thank the Emperor.

In terms of game mechanics?
IMO No. 8th just feels like Warmachine mixed with a pseudo CCG with the command points, stratagems, and that fact that so many thing no longer impact gameplay. Looking at you terrain. Its a very different game from earlier editions and just does not feel like 40k to me.

That said, more power to the people who enjoy it because end of the day its supporting the IP we all love.

7th edition was a burning tire fire due to power creep and terrible codex writing. The base rule set is fine imo. 30k works just fine and is a fun game system.