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I notice that with this being the year of xenos it just seems like Chaos in general has lost a lot of its original hitting power plus everyone knows all the gimmicks now. There is still Harlequins and maybe some more xenos codices on the way as well. I just feel like Chaos is not at the top any more now. Thoughts?

Don't know about that.

I've been enjoying playing 8th edition with my Black Legion army. 3 viable builds, plenty of modelling options, Forgeworld expansions make list building more interesting.

It's gotten to the point where I need something new. Recently started Grey Knights and Deathwatch armies. I guess because I miss losing.

Chaos Soup is still pretty competitive. We'll see how things go if the rumors are true and poxwalkers and tide of traitors both get nerfed in the FAQ.

Chaos has been doing well since the jump, both at major events and RTTs. It is still top tier if you look at the game holistically and not just the last major event as the sole indicator of balance.


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 Arachnofiend wrote:
Chaos Soup is still pretty competitive. We'll see how things go if the rumors are true and poxwalkers and tide of traitors both get nerfed in the FAQ.

Which they absolutely should be, everyone else has to pay reinforcements for this kind of thing. And allowing a Poxwalker squad to grow beyond its max size, and at no cost, is nuts.

You killed 33 cultists. Your opponent got 33 Poxwalkers. Now, the Cultist unit respawns at full 40 man strength, again with 7" of the poxwalkers. Oh and you can't target the Poxwalkers in the shooting phase. It's just dumb. Infinite bodies at no point cost.

Chaos has been doing the best they have in a decade.

But CSM and SM will still suffer First Codex syndrome.

I've shelved my Loyalist marines, and I'm holding off on Orks till they get theirs, but my Chaos armies have blossomed in 8th. What started out as a Death Guard army in 7th has expanded into Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Fallen, and Night Lords with Nurgle Daemon allies.

Play on.

I mean i'm surprised by this question anyway. Have you faced Mortarian when he's surrounded by a decent list?

Considering that you can do just about every playstyle within 4 codexes that can all soup together, i'd say it's a pretty fine place to be. Heck, even just inside the CSM codex you've got plenty of different ways to go.

Maybe it's my meta, but I run a pretty cut & dry berserker rush list and I've done fantastic. I've fought pre-nerf conscripts and won, laughed through a dark reaper spam list. My other army is nids so I know their weaknesses inside and out.

Granted, at the end of most games I have 4 models left, but my opponent tends to have 0. Anecdotal I know, but If my army which was a BAD joke in 6th/7th is suddenly able to tangle with the top tier in 8th, and can cause some of the most hardcore lists stop and think *huh, I need to kill all 60 something of those berserkers or I could lose if/when they hit my line*.

I've seen lots of very viable Chaos lists.

My friend's been winning with a list that's got Ahriman, Abaddon, a bunch of Slaanesh cultists and Tzaangors and a few other support squads that you wouldn't expect.

Abaddon, in an actual list! Winning! No poxwalkers!

They're doing plenty good.

CSM does have a lot of solid units like daemon princes and Obliterators. I still think princes are one of the best units. I don’t really know that much about the new daemons because I haven’t seen a lot batreps featuring them. I suppose Chaos just has a lot more competition to contend with now.

 Primark G wrote:
CSM does have a lot of solid units like daemon princes and Obliterators. I still think princes are one of the best units. I don’t really know that much about the new daemons because I haven’t seen a lot batreps featuring them. I suppose Chaos just has a lot more competition to contend with now.

Go to a tournament, you will see all kinds of chaos.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
CSM does have a lot of solid units like daemon princes and Obliterators. I still think princes are one of the best units. I don’t really know that much about the new daemons because I haven’t seen a lot batreps featuring them. I suppose Chaos just has a lot more competition to contend with now.

Go to a tournament, you will see all kinds of chaos.

Yep.

Chaos is very close to the top tier lists. And not with a single built.

chaos is still doing great

chaos 'space marines' actual space marines however... dont remember seeing many of them at tournaments XD

I swapped over to Chaos recently and I have to say that as far as variety of 'power' builds go - chaos players are spoiled. There are so many options you can draw together to create viable lists. I very quickly went from having enough for a Tzaangors and Cultists list to having enough for probably 4 or 5 variants of Chaos builds.

Chaos is in a pretty good place right now. And chaos being in a good place is a good thing for the game overall.

Chaos have fewer tricks than some of the later books, but they do the bread and butter stuff of winning games very well and are insanely flexible. It's a very good faction.

 Corrode wrote:
Chaos have fewer tricks than some of the later books, but they do the bread and butter stuff of winning games very well and are insanely flexible. It's a very good faction.

"We need no Eldar trickery nor Tau toys. We have brotherhood, but we not utterly dependent on each other like the mewling, cowardly dogs of the Imperium. Each of us, followers of the Warmaster, only need to trust in Abbadon, Chaos and our own martial strength to carry us to bloody victory toward the Golden Throne where a new empire will rise on the foundation of our raw strength and power. Only then can humanity truly take its place as gods of the galaxy. And us, kings over all. Death to the false emperor!" Lord Galvanius, random Chaos Lord of the Black Legion

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 Corrode wrote:
Chaos have fewer tricks than some of the later books, but they do the bread and butter stuff of winning games very well and are insanely flexible. It's a very good faction.

"We need no Eldar trickery nor Tau toys. We have brotherhood, but we not utterly dependent on each other like the mewling, cowardly dogs of the Imperium. Each of us, followers of the Warmaster, only need to trust in Abbadon, Chaos and our own martial strength to carry us to bloody victory toward the Golden Throne where a new empire will rise on the foundation of our raw strength and power. Only then can humanity truly take its place as gods of the galaxy. And us, kings over all. Death to the false emperor!" Lord Galvanius, random Chaos Lord of the Black Legion

or 120 cultists some obilts and a smelly tree XD

 Primark G wrote:
I notice that with this being the year of xenos it just seems like Chaos in general has lost a lot of its original hitting power plus everyone knows all the gimmicks now. There is still Harlequins and maybe some more xenos codices on the way as well. I just feel like Chaos is not at the top any more now. Thoughts?

Chaos as an army is still plenty powerful on the tabletop.

Chaos as a faction has been played out since the 80s.

They have a lot more competition now with dark eldar, Necrons, Tau and Tyranids.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
CSM does have a lot of solid units like daemon princes and Obliterators. I still think princes are one of the best units. I don’t really know that much about the new daemons because I haven’t seen a lot batreps featuring them. I suppose Chaos just has a lot more competition to contend with now.

Go to a tournament, you will see all kinds of chaos.

Well, if the organisers won't check lists, what do you expect?

As an aside - the interweb dubbed 2018 the "Year of Xenos", not GW. And I think the impetus for that was the lack of Xenos books released in 2017, meaning there was an inevitable focus on Xenos Codex releases this year.

I won't be surprised if we see another Chaos release by the end of the year (hopefully not just Renegade Knights, though).

Are there any viable chaos lists that don't involve alpha legion, oblits, poxwalkers, brimstones, or a chaos primarch?

Are there any viable chaos lists that actually use marine units of any sorts other than HQs or Berzerkers?

Cant wait for fulgrim to slither in with the emperors bdsm melted sonic children.

Wouldnt be suprised if they came along side sob the way roimaris and deathguard launched

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Are there any viable chaos lists that don't involve alpha legion, oblits, poxwalkers, brimstones, or a chaos primarch?

Are there any viable chaos lists that actually use marine units of any sorts other than HQs or Berzerkers?

yea Tzaangor and other daemonic spam

every chaos list is 'viable' its just what is 'hyper' competitive... no there are a few builds thats it. But thats the same with every army. GW wanted 8th to be bullet proof but the community broke it and now they patch it every few months...

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Are there any viable chaos lists that don't involve alpha legion, oblits, poxwalkers, brimstones, or a chaos primarch?

Are there any viable chaos lists that actually use marine units of any sorts other than HQs or Berzerkers?

Are there any viable space marine lists that don't spam flyers?

ERJAK wrote:
Chaos as a faction has been played out since the 80s.

If shooting people with electric guitars is wrong, I don't want to be right!

Lol so true - rock n roll Marines FTW!

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Are there any viable chaos lists that don't involve alpha legion, oblits, poxwalkers, brimstones, or a chaos primarch?

Are there any viable chaos lists that actually use marine units of any sorts other than HQs or Berzerkers?

The amount of spoiled in this post is ridiculous.

Is there a chaos list that doesn't include...

Poxwalkers
Brimstones
Obliterators
Magnus
Mortarian
Alpha Legion
Berzerkers
Sorcerers
Daemon Princes

Could you imagine placing this kind of restriction on literally ANY other army? Some factions don't even have this many unique units to choose from in the first place. Holy god.

The the hilarious part is yeah, there actually are. Plagueburst Crawlers are amazing, you can build a list around them. There are also viable daemon lists, too.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Are there any viable chaos lists that don't involve alpha legion, oblits, poxwalkers, brimstones, or a chaos primarch?

Are there any viable chaos lists that actually use marine units of any sorts other than HQs or Berzerkers?

The amount of spoiled in this post is ridiculous.

Is there a chaos list that doesn't include...

Poxwalkers
Brimstones
Obliterators
Magnus
Mortarian
Alpha Legion
Berzerkers
Sorcerers
Daemon Princes

Could you imagine placing this kind of restriction on literally ANY other army? Some factions don't even have this many unique units to choose from in the first place. Holy god.

The the hilarious part is yeah, there actually are. Plagueburst Crawlers are amazing, you can build a list around them. There are also viable daemon lists, too.

To be fair, they left Chaos Space Marines their most potent unit: Cultists.

However, that list of restrictions is pretty hard not to have something in a CSM army list. Even my terminator heavy Black Legion list with a land raider still includes a Sorcerer (in Terminator armor no less, and yes I plan to use him how you think I plan to use him). Heck, the only other model I have on that list is a daemon prince (my latest purchase) mostly so I could actually make use of the stratagem if I am feeling saucy and Tzeentch rewards me.