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Hi, just need some help here, so I decided to get myself a Lucius Titan, I always liked the looks of it and it goes well with my square thunderhawk,

But I have a question, which Titan is more collectable, the Lucius Jackel or the Lucius Wolf?
I think poeple say there is a difference in the head though I cannot see it in the pictures.

I always liked the Lucius Warhound wanted it since day one I got into the hobby, managed to get the last metal thunder hawk which I plan to build, but I think this will be my last true big piece.

I also need it with a certificate otherwise my local FLGS wont allow it in tournaments.

Kind regards

Realistically? None of them are collectible.

Ok Thanks,

will.patrick123 wrote:

I also need it with a certificate otherwise my local FLGS wont allow it in tournaments.

Kind regards

Does your FLGS ask for receipts for all of your other GW minis?

No just the Titans mostly, the manager of the shop is happy as long as it is offical GW models or made from GW models, so I have rogue trader stuff no problems, bought 3x Knights for $200 on gumtree 2nd hand, again all good, but nothing that rips off GW.

sounds like his local GW manager just wants to make sure big ticket items like that aren't recasts.

collectible, no. Worth it yes.

I'm currently saving up for one but i have a bunch of other purchases that are ahead. Sisters in how ever long.

What you mean by collectible? I don't think you can easily get even same amount of money if you plan to sell it let alone more UNLESS you are VERY good at painting and basically can make profit by paint job. And I doubt actual head variant is going to be decider but your paint job.

Titans are basically have fun painting it type of models. Very expensive models, stinks rulewise. Especially now with GW killing any pretence of them being balanced. There's not much LESS useful models gaming wise than titans.

what you said is true, but like all things they always seem to balance them out, stormtrooper are better and more viable then last edition, I think the Warhound will also come back, now they made them terrible so most people do not want them or want to use them, but in a few editions away they always bring them and balance them out again, I have seen this too many times, I also seen where they never balance them out, poor orcs.
but I am betting they will balance the warhound as it one of there biggest sellers, when a new warhound comes out to replace the mars. as for collectability, I guess I mean the rareness, it not collectable now but maybe in another 10 years it will be. prices of rogue trader stuff have gone up the last two years, heck I can even find some pieces I am looking for.

BrianDavion wrote:
sounds like his local GW manager just wants to make sure big ticket items like that aren't recasts.

Is this a GW store, OP didn’t say other than an FLGS? I’d also be curious if someone had the old Armorcast warhound (like me), if they’d just be out of luck using it in that tournament scene.

 Stormonu wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
sounds like his local GW manager just wants to make sure big ticket items like that aren't recasts.

Is this a GW store, OP didn’t say other than an FLGS? I’d also be curious if someone had the old Armorcast warhound (like me), if they’d just be out of luck using it in that tournament scene.

There're rumours that FLGS's which deal direct with GW and upset their point of contact have 'hidden' parts of their "official stockist programme contract" activated - they're 'obligated' to ensure re-casts and 3rd party models are not used in GW events hosted by them, for example.
(No idea if this is actually true, or how it's enforced - but I've heard it repeated in a few different places)

BrianDavion wrote:
sounds like his local GW manager just wants to make sure big ticket items like that aren't recasts.

Yea, there's a guy where I play who owns 13 recasted baneblade variants...

will.patrick123 wrote:
Hi, just need some help here, so I decided to get myself a Lucius Titan, I always liked the looks of it and it goes well with my square thunderhawk,

But I have a question, which Titan is more collectable, the Lucius Jackel or the Lucius Wolf?
I think poeple say there is a difference in the head though I cannot see it in the pictures.

I always liked the Lucius Warhound wanted it since day one I got into the hobby, managed to get the last metal thunder hawk which I plan to build, but I think this will be my last true big piece.

I'd say none of the above. The rarest one would probably be the old armorcast one.

I also need it with a certificate otherwise my local FLGS wont allow it in tournaments.

Well, then, not the armorcast one. Also, that sounds more like an LGS, not a FLGS.

If you were to scratch build one even nicer than the FW ones, would they accept a scratch built certificate?
What about the rest of the army? Do you need proof you bought those too? Can they be out of print?
What about ebooks?
What if someone made greenstuff plasmaguns? Would greenstuff plasmaguns be okay?
Could I use non-GW bases? What about non-GW flocking and paint?
Is this catching on anywhere else? Should I be saving my receipts for my GW super glue?

will.patrick123 wrote:
what you said is true, but like all things they always seem to balance them out, stormtrooper are better and more viable then last edition, I think the Warhound will also come back, now they made them terrible so most people do not want them or want to use them, but in a few editions away they always bring them and balance them out again, I have seen this too many times, I also seen where they never balance them out, poor orcs.
but I am betting they will balance the warhound as it one of there biggest sellers, when a new warhound comes out to replace the mars. as for collectability, I guess I mean the rareness, it not collectable now but maybe in another 10 years it will be. prices of rogue trader stuff have gone up the last two years, heck I can even find some pieces I am looking for.

Warhounds have never been super good units in game. They are even hard to field. They are generally what you buy for collection and for big battles at which point competive rules are irrelevant.

They don't have to be good for points. When their primary use is "bring all you have" apoc games what they just need is big shooty guns and enough survivability stray lascannon or two doesn't bring one down.

If you were to scratch build one even nicer than the FW ones, would they accept a scratch built certificate?
What about the rest of the army? Do you need proof you bought those too? Can they be out of print?
What about ebooks?
What if someone made greenstuff plasmaguns? Would greenstuff plasmaguns be okay?
Could I use non-GW bases? What about non-GW flocking and paint?
Is this catching on anywhere else? Should I be saving my receipts for my GW super glue?

already said you can buy 2nd hand, it as long as it not made from China and others, paint and that are fine, anything that need to be scratchbuilt is fine as long as it mostly made from GW stuff, this is a GW store, though I never seen anyone playing with a scratch build titan unless the store owner knows them and if it is one you had for a long time.

his easy to talk to and will let you get away with a lot, if you had it for a long time I am sure he will let you play it, but he does not want recast's, and if scratch built ages ago before they had the model his fine, really I actually support this at least it keeps the business going, recast are a bit of a problem, so many Titan on ebay, no certificate's.....

will.patrick123 wrote:

already said you can buy 2nd hand, it as long as it not made from China and others, paint and that are fine, anything that need to be scratchbuilt is fine as long as it mostly made from GW stuff, this is a GW store, though I never seen anyone playing with a scratch build titan unless the store owner knows them and if it is one you had for a long time.

But if 2nd hand is okay but not china how to differentiate them?

tneva82 wrote:

will.patrick123 wrote:

already said you can buy 2nd hand, it as long as it not made from China and others, paint and that are fine, anything that need to be scratchbuilt is fine as long as it mostly made from GW stuff, this is a GW store, though I never seen anyone playing with a scratch build titan unless the store owner knows them and if it is one you had for a long time.

But if 2nd hand is okay but not china how to differentiate them?

If you bought second hand you would likely receive (or could ask for) the certificate as a part of the sale.

 JamesY wrote:
If you bought second hand you would likely receive (or could ask for) the certificate as a part of the sale.

Assuming the seller bothered to keep the certificate. It's not like it has any practical purpose, so a lot of them probably end up in the trash along with all the other packing material.

It doesn't look too difficult to forge, to be honest.

will.patrick123 wrote:
Hi, just need some help here, so I decided to get myself a Lucius Titan, I always liked the looks of it and it goes well with my square thunderhawk,

But I have a question, which Titan is more collectable, the Lucius Jackel or the Lucius Wolf?
I think poeple say there is a difference in the head though I cannot see it in the pictures.

I always liked the Lucius Warhound wanted it since day one I got into the hobby, managed to get the last metal thunder hawk which I plan to build, but I think this will be my last true big piece.

I also need it with a certificate otherwise my local FLGS wont allow it in tournaments.

Kind regards

There's a small difference in the head, the vents on the Wolf's "snout" are square while the Jackal's are triangular, giving the impression of teeth, and the canopy on the Wolf is angular at the front; on the Jackal it slopes forward so there is no window at the front, just the "eyes" on the side.

The main difference stems from when they were originally produced, you didn't get the choice of weapon; the Wolf always came with Turbo/Plasma while the Jackal had the Inferno/Vulcan. Now that every Titan can take every weapon the difference is solely down to the slight aesthetic changes.

I myself have one of the Wolf-class and it's a great model, shame FW stopped producing it. Honestly there's not much demand for them at the moment, occasionally you'll see one go up on eBay but they're not super-duper-collectible.

In terms of the certificate however, I can honestly say that seems like a load of BS. I've played both my Warhound and Reaver at many events, both GW and FLGS, and not once have I been asked for a certificate, or even asked if it's genuine. In my opinion, the owner is kinda shooting himself in the foot to be honest; Titans and the such are often a nice bit of eye-candy to attract other players/shoppers, and unless like mentioned previously there's some weird clause in his contract saying he has to check every model seeing if it's genuine, there shouldn't be an issue.

Like someone said, if you've bought this thing second hand, it's possible the original owner still has/threw away the certificate, just tell him that.

Is this a GW store, OP didn’t say other than an FLGS? I’d also be curious if someone had the old Armorcast warhound (like me), if they’d just be out of luck using it in that tournament scene.

Armorcast models were officially licensed. You should be fine to use that in any tournament.

will.patrick123 wrote:


already said you can buy 2nd hand, it as long as it not made from China and others, paint and that are fine, anything that need to be scratchbuilt is fine as long as it mostly made from GW stuff, this is a GW store, though I never seen anyone playing with a scratch build titan unless the store owner knows them and if it is one you had for a long time.

his easy to talk to and will let you get away with a lot, if you had it for a long time I am sure he will let you play it, but he does not want recast's, and if scratch built ages ago before they had the model his fine, really I actually support this at least it keeps the business going, recast are a bit of a problem, so many Titan on ebay, no certificate's.....

Okay, it's a GW store. That at least does makes it make more sense. For whatever reason, I had the impression it was an independent. I don't know why I thought that.

I still think the armorcast is the most "collectable". I think the general belief is that there have been more recasts sold on ebay of that thing than originally existed, so the odds of getting a real one are pretty slim.

I apologize for my snarky remarks.