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First, plasma is in and hot. All the MT lists have tons of 4-man plasma gun command squads. Where do MT players get all of those plasma guns? The scions box only has one...

I personally dislike the plasma gun the box set includes because its weird having all my plasma guns held only on one arm.

Second, I’d never use the flamer on the scions sprue for my MT, but it seems that flamers got nerfed in the 8th. The template was auto-hit for blobs and now it seems a crappy D6. Any point giving the MT scions flamers to acolytes in my small Inquisition detachment?

A good alternative is the FW's hostile environment series.

A friend has converted his scions/TM CMS to mimic the old Stormtrooper looks.

Ether they spend the mons on extra kits for the gun,

they get them on bits sites

they dont bother and proxy

they spend time converting it with plasma guns or pistols.

the plasma pistol bits are pretty common and not that hard of a conversion.

 Desubot wrote:
Ether they spend the mons on extra kits for the gun,

they get them on bits sites

they dont bother and proxy

they spend time converting it with plasma guns or pistols.

the plasma pistol bits are pretty common and not that hard of a conversion.

Thanks guys. This is a great option. Can the pistols be converted to guns by chance?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/361875.page

Good old local dakkamite conversion



you should be able to do the same thing on the scion rifle.

 Desubot wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/361875.page

Good old local dakkamite conversion



you should be able to do the same thing on the scion rifle.

Thanks Desubot. Sweeeetttt!!!

 Popsghostly wrote:
First, plasma is in and hot. All the MT lists have tons of 4-man plasma gun command squads. Where do MT players get all of those plasma guns? The scions box only has one...

I personally dislike the plasma gun the box set includes because its weird having all my plasma guns held only on one arm.

Second, I’d never use the flamer on the scions sprue for my MT, but it seems that flamers got nerfed in the 8th. The template was auto-hit for blobs and now it seems a crappy D6. Any point giving the MT scions flamers to acolytes in my small Inquisition detachment?

The "crappy d6" isn't as much a problem as the 8" range, which is just too short to ever be practical by 2". Even 9.5" would be practical.

The thing is, 8" is too short to ever fire at incoming deepstrikers or be fired by incoming deepstrikers.

The other problem is that Storm Bolters are 2 points, while Flamers are 9. I did the math for the Sisters, but the basics of it is that the Storm Bolters only average about half a hit less and have lower maximum potential, but they also reach to 12", 24" with 50% effectiveness. Guardsmen don't get Storm Bolters, but the point is pretty much the same, Flamers are really expensive for what they offer. The auto-hitting may be worth it if they could fire overwatch, but the 8" pretty much means they can't.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Popsghostly wrote:
First, plasma is in and hot. All the MT lists have tons of 4-man plasma gun command squads. Where do MT players get all of those plasma guns? The scions box only has one...

I personally dislike the plasma gun the box set includes because its weird having all my plasma guns held only on one arm.

Second, I’d never use the flamer on the scions sprue for my MT, but it seems that flamers got nerfed in the 8th. The template was auto-hit for blobs and now it seems a crappy D6. Any point giving the MT scions flamers to acolytes in my small Inquisition detachment?

The "crappy d6" isn't as much a problem as the 8" range, which is just too short to ever be practical by 2". Even 9.5" would be practical.

The thing is, 8" is too short to ever fire at incoming deepstrikers or be fired by incoming deepstrikers.

The other problem is that Storm Bolters are 2 points, while Flamers are 9. I did the math for the Sisters, but the basics of it is that the Storm Bolters only average about half a hit less and have lower maximum potential, but they also reach to 12", 24" with 50% effectiveness. Guardsmen don't get Storm Bolters, but the point is pretty much the same, Flamers are really expensive for what they offer. The auto-hitting may be worth it if they could fire overwatch, but the 8" pretty much means they can't.

Its short because they didnt want deep strikers flaming in when they come in. simillar to how it works for flamers (at least warp flamers) in aos (except herp derp no brainer skryer list).

the better question is should they be that way.

it could and it probably wouldn't do anything to the game in that plasmas gain no penalties for deep striking in (always within rapid fire) so its not like people would suddenly take flamers if they could deep strike and flame. (sorry monday brain. basicly saying no one would really care about being able to flame out of deep strike because even with the D6 and range it really wouldnt impact much outside of the very lucky max flame rolls. flamers need more than range. they also need bonuses in damage potential to large units. so at the least they have a more directed target. it should be a D3 weapon then D6 for 10 man then 6 for 20 man or some flavor of that)

 Desubot wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Popsghostly wrote:
First, plasma is in and hot. All the MT lists have tons of 4-man plasma gun command squads. Where do MT players get all of those plasma guns? The scions box only has one...

I personally dislike the plasma gun the box set includes because its weird having all my plasma guns held only on one arm.

Second, I’d never use the flamer on the scions sprue for my MT, but it seems that flamers got nerfed in the 8th. The template was auto-hit for blobs and now it seems a crappy D6. Any point giving the MT scions flamers to acolytes in my small Inquisition detachment?

The "crappy d6" isn't as much a problem as the 8" range, which is just too short to ever be practical by 2". Even 9.5" would be practical.

The thing is, 8" is too short to ever fire at incoming deepstrikers or be fired by incoming deepstrikers.

The other problem is that Storm Bolters are 2 points, while Flamers are 9. I did the math for the Sisters, but the basics of it is that the Storm Bolters only average about half a hit less and have lower maximum potential, but they also reach to 12", 24" with 50% effectiveness. Guardsmen don't get Storm Bolters, but the point is pretty much the same, Flamers are really expensive for what they offer. The auto-hitting may be worth it if they could fire overwatch, but the 8" pretty much means they can't.

Its short because they didnt want deep strikers flaming in when they come in. simillar to how it works for flamers (at least warp flamers) in aos (except herp derp no brainer skryer list).

the better question is should they be that way.

it could and it probably wouldn't do anything to the game in that plasmas gain no penalties for deep striking in (always within rapid fire) so its not like people would suddenly take flamers if they could deep strike and flame. (sorry monday brain. basicly saying no one would really care about being able to flame out of deep strike because even with the D6 and range it really wouldnt impact much outside of the very lucky max flame rolls. flamers need more than range. they also need bonuses in damage potential to large units. so at the least they have a more directed target. it should be a D3 weapon then D6 for 10 man then 6 for 20 man or some flavor of that)

It matters defensively for overwatch against deep strikers. Flamers are fine at D6, they just need to be cheaper and able to hit guys trying to drop-and-charge.

I'm fine with flamers the way they are, though you could ditch a couple points and it'd be fine. I was upset to see Heavy Flamers not return to their glory - by gaining a longer range than normal flamers (as they used to when they had their own template). Heavy Flamers are expensive, and an extended range would make them fill a niche which would be great - fending off Deep Strike charges, and countering a lot of stuff. Would also make them worth taking more on vehicles.

I use Kasrkin and FW Cadian hostile environment plasma gun guys for my Scions so they come with their own plasma. They're part of my retirement plan along with my metal ogryn and original GKT.

For my Mordians though, I use the 5-pack failcast plasma gun packages you can order from GW from their website. They're kind of annoying to attach to guardsmen, but they're way easier than the old metal ones used to be, and they probably require less cutting overall than making one with a plasma pistol, plus I save those for homemade combi-weapons.

I'm making mine out of scion melta guns(useless weapon anyway) and spare plasma guns I have lying around(especially from 30k kits)