[2000] - World Eaters/Khorne Demons

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**Kharneth**

1007 - Troops of Hate - World Eaters Battalion +3 CP

180 - Demon Prince - Slaughterborn, Wings, x2 Malefic Claws, Talisman of Burning Blood
180 - Demon Prince - Wings, x2 Malefic Claws
210 - 7 Khorne Berserkers - x7 Chainswords, x6 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon, Rhino
210 - 7 Khorne Berserkers - x7 Chainswords, x6 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon, Rhino
227 - 8 Khorne Berserkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon, Rhino

271 - Militia of Blood - World Eaters Battalion +3 CP

75 - Exalted Champion - Power Axe, Chainsword
76 - Dark Apostle
40 - 10 Cultists - x10 Autoguns
40 - 10 Cultists - x10 Autoguns
40 - 10 Cultists - x10 Autoguns

722 - Soldiers of Hell - Khorne Demons Battalion -3 CP

340 - Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage - Denizen of the Warp (-2CP)
56 - Bloodmaster - Denizen of the Warp (-1CP)
186 - 23 Bloodletters - Banner of Blood, Instrument, Denizens of the Warp (-3CP)
70 - 10 Bloodletters
70 - 10 Bloodletters

2000
6 CP

**Captyn_Bob**

What detachments are you planning to use ? There are significant (and in no way worth it ) disadvantages to mixing daemons and csm in one detachment.

As it stands you probably need one more csm hq, or two more daemon troops, to make a good detachment set up.

**Kharneth**

Captyn_Bob wrote:
What detachments are you planning to use ? There are significant (and in no way worth it ) disadvantages to mixing daemons and csm in one detachment.

As it stands you probably need one more csm hq, or two more daemon troops, to make a good detachment set up.

I think I fixed it.

Scrapped the terminators and added some Obliterators and an another HQ.

I could replace the Obliterators and Rhino weapons for some Bikers. I would have 234 spare points and could fit a squad of 8 Bikers with like a single upgrade. Perhaps I could prune a little more to fit enough points for my Bikers... or not get 8 :(

Thoughts?

**ShiokenStar**

I would try fitting in an Exalted Champion to ride around with your Berserkers as he gives rerolls to failed wounds.

**Kharneth**

That's very random. Where exactly do you see those 70-100 points coming from? Do my berserkers really need those rerolls with their 4x2 attacks?

**TonyH122**

I think it looks to be a great list. Very fluffy! Although your list only adds up to 1943 points, by the way.

I think that the only issue with the list as written is that everything is piling in like a mofo. What you lack are objective holders, which are really what are going to get you points.

The one thing you don't need to worry about is this list killing everything in close combat, so you could comfortably drop a squad of Berzerkers. I would then add some squads of cultists, and maybe a ... Maulerfiend? I mean, for that 150 points you could add an Exalted Champion and a Dark Apostle to re-roll EVERYTHING in close combat.

**Kharneth**

TonyH122 wrote:
I think it looks to be a great list. Very fluffy! Although your list only adds up to 1943 points, by the way.

I think that the only issue with the list as written is that everything is piling in like a mofo. What you lack are objective holders, which are really what are going to get you points.

The one thing you don't need to worry about is this list killing everything in close combat, so you could comfortably drop a squad of Berzerkers. I would then add some squads of cultists, and maybe a ... Maulerfiend? I mean, for that 150 points you could add an Exalted Champion and a Dark Apostle to re-roll EVERYTHING in close combat.

Oops! It was missing the Bloodmaster! That's where those extra points went!

Also, objectives?! Slaying the enemy is the objective! Too fluffy? lol. If I dropped a 'zerker squad it would be for a CSM squad for objective holding because I feel like that'd be more worth it than a blob of cultists. It'd also be cooler, imo. But I don't know... what's stopping me from using one of my zerker squads to sit on an objective? Sure, they can't shoot, but cultists weren't going to be dealing any damage anyway.

I've been tweaking the list and in my newest form there is an Exalted Champion (but only 1 Demon Prince). I'm so stuck on some things, but I think the 24 zerkers and 24 bloodletters aren't changing. Are 2 Demon Princes and a Bloodthirster overkill?

EDIT
I've redesigned it. I have a back-field now with some versatile fire support and don't feel like I'm lacking any melee power, either.

**mrhappyface**

Right, some points/questions:

1. What is A'rgath?
2. I personally think the Murder Sword is a waist, you're doing a maximum of 4 Mortal Wounds: the Exalted Champion is more of a force multiplier than a damage dealer.
3. I'd personally drop the Predator and fill out your Daemon detachment with two more units of Bloodletters. Then use 2CP to put the Bloodthirster in Deepstrike so he doesn't get blown off the board turn 1.
5. I said it in the other thread and I'll say it in this one: Poweraxes are crap, get Powerfists.
6. Cultists are fine to sit on objectives: your opponant isn't going to shoot them when there's Berzerkers and Khorne Daemons on the board. Cultists are their to get you CP and to sit on Objectives (I won a game last week because I still had 3 cultist units and a Nurgling pile left on Objectives after everything else in my army was whiped out by Nu-Crons).

**Kharneth**

1. A'rgath, King of Blades, is a hellforged artefact that gives +1S -4AP 3D (for monsters) and allows rerolling to wound against characters. Basically turns the DP into a character hunter. His Warlord trait gives him +1S and A for each character, monster, or titan he slays. So I thought I'd turn him into a character hunter. 5 attacks at S8 rerolling to wound and dealing 3D each felt like it'd do work and it's cheaper than the x2 claws prince I'd been using.

2. But the Murder Sword doesn't even need to roll to wound! 2+ to hit and the target takes a mortal wound! I thought between him and my DP there would be no characters that would survive! Perhaps it's overkill. Would the exalted just be here for his aura? Should I give him a chainaxe and pretend he's a berserker or should I give him a power weapon?

3. 2 more units of bloodletters would be 450ish points and they'd be footsloggin' it. Wouldn't that be sloooooow? I'd be left with 3 obliterators for my entire army's fire support!

4 is missing?

5. Haha, if I can spare the 21 points I'll add the fists, we'll see what happens when I shift everything. I'm still not happy with the list.

6. I've got the 3 units of cultists. I rather like them, it's sort of like spending 40 pts on a CP... but if I remove the Predator than I'll remove the Warpsmith and I'll be down an HQ for my battalion. Perhaps the best decision is the one you suggested: turn the demons into a battalion.

**minisnatcher**

I play something similar. My list looks like this:

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) +++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons) [30 PL, 607pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Khorne

+ HQ [6 PL, 112pts] +

Bloodmaster [3 PL, 56pts]

Bloodmaster [3 PL, 56pts]

+ Troops [24 PL, 495pts] +

Bloodletters [8 PL, 165pts]: 19x Bloodletter [133pts], Bloodreaper [7pts], Daemonic Icon [15pts], Instrument of Chaos [10pts]

Bloodletters [8 PL, 165pts]: 19x Bloodletter [133pts], Bloodreaper [7pts], Daemonic Icon [15pts], Instrument of Chaos [10pts]

Bloodletters [8 PL, 165pts]: 19x Bloodletter [133pts], Bloodreaper [7pts], Daemonic Icon [15pts], Instrument of Chaos [10pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [44 PL, 756pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: World Eaters

+ HQ [10 PL, 151pts] +

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 76pts]: Bolt pistol, Mark of Khorne, Power maul [4pts]

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 75pts]: Axe of Blind Fury, Chainsword, Mark of Khorne, Power axe [5pts]

+ Troops [24 PL, 428pts] +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun [36pts], Mark of Khorne
. Cultist Champion [4pts]: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun [36pts], Mark of Khorne
. Cultist Champion [4pts]: Autogun

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 191pts]: Icon of Wrath [10pts]
. Berzerker Champion [28pts]: Chainsword, Power fist [12pts]
. 9x Chainsword and Chainaxe [153pts]: 9x Chainaxe [9pts]

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 157pts]: Icon of Wrath [10pts]
. Berzerker Champion [28pts]: Chainsword, Power fist [12pts]
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe [119pts]: 7x Chainaxe [7pts]

+ Fast Attack [2 PL, 33pts] +

Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 33pts]: Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 33pts], Mark of Khorne

+ Dedicated Transport [8 PL, 144pts] +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter [2pts], Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter [2pts], Mark of Khorne

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [36 PL, 636pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: World Eaters

+ HQ [9 PL, 180pts] +

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 180pts]: 6. Exalted Champion, Khorne, Malefic talon [10pts], Warlord

+ Heavy Support [27 PL, 456pts] +

Maulerfiend [9 PL, 152pts]: Lasher tendrils [12pts], Mark of Khorne

Maulerfiend [9 PL, 152pts]: Lasher tendrils [12pts], Mark of Khorne

Maulerfiend [9 PL, 152pts]: Lasher tendrils [12pts], Mark of Khorne

++ Total: [110 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

All the bloodletters go in deepstrike + 3d6 charge. heralds are in deepstrike too. They are the up your nose threat while the rest of your army gets into position.

In your case, you could change the maulerfiends with more zerkers. But I love the look on my opponent face when he sees 3 of them and they help against stuff like knights/primarchs.

**mrhappyface**

Kharneth wrote:
1. A'rgath, King of Blades, is a hellforged artefact that gives +1S -4AP 3D (for monsters) and allows rerolling to wound against characters. Basically turns the DP into a character hunter. His Warlord trait gives him +1S and A for each character, monster, or titan he slays. So I thought I'd turn him into a character hunter. 5 attacks at S8 rerolling to wound and dealing 3D each felt like it'd do work and it's cheaper than the x2 claws prince I'd been using.

That's only usable by DAEMON faction DPs.

2. But the Murder Sword doesn't even need to roll to wound! 2+ to hit and the target takes a mortal wound! I thought between him and my DP there would be no characters that would survive! Perhaps it's overkill. Would the exalted just be here for his aura? Should I give him a chainaxe and pretend he's a berserker or should I give him a power weapon?

I just give him a Power Axe since I don't epect him to cut through units: that's the Berzerkers' job. The Murder Sword needs weight of attacks to really be useful (unless you're just going to use it to discourage an enemy character from going anywhere near your Berzerker blob).

3. 2 more units of bloodletters would be 450ish points and they'd be footsloggin' it. Wouldn't that be sloooooow? I'd be left with 3 obliterators for my entire army's fire support!

You could just have 2 10 man units for 140pts. That gives you: +3CP and the ability to counter charge an alpha strike force.

4 is missing?

Yeah, missed that.

5. Haha, if I can spare the 21 points I'll add the fists, we'll see what happens when I shift everything. I'm still not happy with the list.

They are magnificent

6. I've got the 3 units of cultists. I rather like them, it's sort of like spending 40 pts on a CP... but if I remove the Predator than I'll remove the Warpsmith and I'll be down an HQ for my battalion. Perhaps the best decision is the one you suggested: turn the demons into a battalion.

Swap the warpsmith for a regular Chaos Lord, it's only around 10pts extra.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, since Minisnatcher is sharing, guess I will too. My list is very similar too but my Cultist battalion is Alpha Legion rather than World Eaters.

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons) [26 PL, 487pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Chaos Undivided

+ HQ +

Bloodmaster [3 PL, 56pts]

Bloodmaster [3 PL, 56pts]

+ Troops +

Bloodletters [12 PL, 235pts]: 29x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos

Bloodletters [4 PL, 70pts]: 9x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper

Bloodletters [4 PL, 70pts]: 9x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [25 PL, 420pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon
. Slaanesh: Diabolic Strength

Sorcerer with Jump Pack [7 PL, 120pts]: Bolt pistol, Force sword, No Chaos Mark, Prescience, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [53 PL, 1090pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: World Eaters

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 93pts]: Mark of Khorne, Plasma pistol, Power fist

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 132pts]: Combi-plasma, Mark of Khorne, Power fist

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 82pts]: Mark of Khorne, Plasma pistol, Power axe

+ Troops +

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 113pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
. 4x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 4x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 113pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
. 4x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 4x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 113pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
. 4x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 4x Chainaxe

+ Elites +

Chaos Terminators [14 PL, 300pts]: Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne
. Chaos Terminator Champion: Combi-plasma, Power fist
. Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power fist
. Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power fist
. Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power fist
. Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power fist

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

++ Total: [104 PL, 1997pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I could drop the Daemon Prince down to a Sorcerer and re-arrange it so I have 2 Deepstriking 20 man Bloodletter units but is more effective against heavy deepstrike lists.

**Kharneth**

1. Can you show me where it says this or why it's the case? The Hellforge Artefact rules say that if my Warlord has the Daemon Keyword than I can select a Hellforge Artefact for any Daemon Characters. My Daemon Prince fits that description, so unless there's an FAQ or some specified rule in the rulebook I don't see how the prince can't take it. I'd like to know for sure, even though I've opted out of the blade.

2. I hate the Exalted Champion, he's weaker than a berserker! I love how you say to give the berserker champion power fists but to just give the exalted champion a power axe, haha. I'll save some points on him.

3. Perhaps, I guess it really would be 140pts for 3CP. How exactly would they counter charge an alpha strike force? Wouldn't they either need to start on the board or be summoned by a character? If summoned by a character, they'd only come in 1 turn at a time unless I used the strategem, which feels like a waste for a 70pt unit.

6. What's the benefit of a Chaos Lord over having another Exalted Champion or Dark Apostle? Rerolling to hit on 1s isn't as good as rerolling to hit in general. Sure he has the 4+ invul, but pft. His stats are better, that's for sure. Replacing a Warpsmith for a Chaos Lord is more like 30 pts.

**mrhappyface**

Kharneth wrote:
1. Can you show me where it says this or why it's the case? The Hellforge Artefact rules say that if my Warlord has the Daemon Keyword than I can select a Hellforge Artefact for any Daemon Characters. My Daemon Prince fits that description, so unless there's an FAQ or some specified rule in the rulebook I don't see how the prince can't take it. I'd like to know for sure, even though I've opted out of the blade.

I don't know... I think I remember a thread about it a while ago but I can't find the thread or any other evidence...

2. I hate the Exalted Champion, he's weaker than a berserker! I love how you say to give the berserker champion power fists but to just give the exalted champion a power axe, haha. I'll save some points on him.

Yeah, he's just there for the aura.

3. Perhaps, I guess it really would be 140pts for 3CP. How exactly would they counter charge an alpha strike force? Wouldn't they either need to start on the board or be summoned by a character? If summoned by a character, they'd only come in 1 turn at a time unless I used the strategem, which feels like a waste for a 70pt unit.

They sit behind your line of Cultists with your rhinos and charge whatever deep struck down turn 1 so your Berzerkers don't have to get out and deal with it.

6. What's the benefit of a Chaos Lord over having another Exalted Champion or Dark Apostle? Rerolling to hit on 1s isn't as good as rerolling to hit in general. Sure he has the 4+ invul, but pft. His stats are better, that's for sure. Replacing a Warpsmith for a Chaos Lord is more like 30 pts.

Chaos Lord has a larger aura than the Dark Apostle, it helps out for those times when your characters fail the charge but your Berzerkers get in. I also run a Lord because I put Plasma pistols on all my characters and my Berzerker champions so re-rolls of 1 for shooting really helps.
Also, after wargear, a Warpsmith costs 76pts whilst the cheapest Chaos Lord costs 74pts.

**Kharneth**

I don't know how to do those fancy quotes with my responses between each quoted section!

1. "If your army is led by a Warlord with the DAEMON Faction Keyword..." Oh. Writing it down helped. My Daemon Prince does not have a Daemon Faction Keyword. Oh well! Talisman of Burning Blood it is, than!

2. Hokay. Stupid generic Chaos characters. I want World Eaters characters!

3. OH! Thanks. So what would you recommend they do against non-Alpha Strike? Play bodyguards for the cultists or footslog to their death?

6. How exactly is the aura larger? They both say 6" and to my knowledge they have the same base size. I see how the Dark Apostle only helps for melee whereas the Lord is super useful for plasma. How does a Warpsmith become 76 points?! You don't have to pay for his flamer, melta, etc. They aren't wargear options, they're part of the unit. The only wargear he gets is a pistol or combi-weapon. What costs 31 points??? Either way, he came with the Predator, so he's gone now.

You've been very helpful for me across this board! I like this new list more than any of the others, though I do feel like I have a lot of units who will be sort of doing nothing (30 cultists and 20 bloodletters).

**mrhappyface**

Kharneth wrote:
I don't know how to do those fancy quotes with my responses between each quoted section!

You just press the quote button by the side of a post and swap around the html a bit.

3. OH! Thanks. So what would you recommend they do against non-Alpha Strike? Play bodyguards for the cultists or footslog to their death?

If my opponant has no deepstrike/no fast moving units, I just advance them up the board: they can either sit on mid-table objectives or get stuck in the fight.

6. How exactly is the aura larger? They both say 6" and to my knowledge they have the same base size. I see how the Dark Apostle only helps for melee whereas the Lord is super useful for plasma. How does a Warpsmith become 76 points?! You don't have to pay for his flamer, melta, etc. They aren't wargear options, they're part of the unit. The only wargear he gets is a pistol or combi-weapon. What costs 31 points??? Either way, he came with the Predator, so he's gone now.

My mistake, I was thinking of Kharn.
The base cost of a Warpsmith doesn't include any of his weapons: you have to pay for the melta, the flamer and the Poweraxe.

You've been very helpful for me across this board! I like this new list more than any of the others, though I do feel like I have a lot of units who will be sort of doing nothing (30 cultists and 20 bloodletters).

Units that do nothing can sometimes win you the game: your opponant focuses on the bigger threats, then it's suddenly turn 5 and the rest of your army is destroyed but you hold all the objectives.

**Kharneth**

How am I suppose to know I need to pay for the Warpsmith's weapons? Do I have to pay for the Dark Apostle's Power Maul????

**mrhappyface**

Kharneth wrote:
How am I suppose to know I need to pay for the Warpsmith's weapons? Do I have to pay for the Dark Apostle's Power Maul????

It says in the back of the codex that the points don't include wargear.

**Kharneth**

mrhappyface wrote:
Kharneth wrote:
How am I suppose to know I need to pay for the Warpsmith's weapons? Do I have to pay for the Dark Apostle's Power Maul????

It says in the back of the codex that the points don't include wargear.

No where does the Warpsmith define its power axe, mechatendrils, meltagun, flamer, bolt pistol, frag grenades, or krak grenades as Wargear. The only Wargear that the Warpsmith has are replacing its bolt pistol with one item from the Pistols or Combi-Weapons section.

So my Dark Apostle is 76 points, not 72? That seems so pointless, like it's nothing but an added layer of complication. My Dark Apostle cannot replace its Power Maul, so why not have it be added to the cost of the miniature itself? Same with the Warpsmith. Where does it claim that those weapons are wargear?

And then Terminators are not 31 points, but are 38 points? God that's so frustrating. Now I'm 3 points over T.T

**mrhappyface**

Yeah, you must always pay for wargear unless it's on a named character.

Also, you can't use the same artefact twice.

**Kharneth**

mrhappyface wrote:
Also, you can't use the same artefact twice.

Do you know where it says that? I mean, of course you can't, that's common-GW-sense.

**mrhappyface**

Kharneth wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Also, you can't use the same artefact twice.

Do you know where it says that? I mean, of course you can't, that's common-GW-sense.

It says it on the stratagem, all the artefacts you choose must be different.

**Kharneth**

mrhappyface wrote:
Kharneth wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Also, you can't use the same artefact twice.

Do you know where it says that? I mean, of course you can't, that's common-GW-sense.

It says it on the stratagem, all the artefacts you choose must be different.

Yes. The strategem does not allow you to take the same artefact more than once nor for the same character.

I get 1 artefact for having a CSM Warlord. I chose to give my Warlord the Talisman of Burning Blood.

Then I spent 1CP to get 1 artefact from the strategem. I chose Talisman of Burning Blood for the other Demon Prince. I didn't break the strategem rules and I don't have a character with more than 1 artefact. So is this legal? The strategem ruling is only for itself, not a blanket rule for artefacts in general.

Does it specify in the rulebook that artefacts are unique and can only be taken once per army?

**mrhappyface**

Kharneth wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Kharneth wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Also, you can't use the same artefact twice.

Do you know where it says that? I mean, of course you can't, that's common-GW-sense.

It says it on the stratagem, all the artefacts you choose must be different.

Yes. The strategem does not allow you to take the same artefact more than once nor for the same character.

I get 1 artefact for having a CSM Warlord. I chose to give my Warlord the Talisman of Burning Blood.

Then I spent 1CP to get 1 artefact from the strategem. I chose Talisman of Burning Blood for the other Demon Prince. I didn't break the strategem rules and I don't have a character with more than 1 artefact. So is this legal? The strategem ruling is only for itself, not a blanket rule for artefacts in general.

Does it specify in the rulebook that artefacts are unique and can only be taken once per army?

The stratagem specifically says you have to choose different artefacts.

**Kharneth**

mrhappyface wrote:
Kharneth wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Kharneth wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Also, you can't use the same artefact twice.

Do you know where it says that? I mean, of course you can't, that's common-GW-sense.

It says it on the stratagem, all the artefacts you choose must be different.

Yes. The strategem does not allow you to take the same artefact more than once nor for the same character.

I get 1 artefact for having a CSM Warlord. I chose to give my Warlord the Talisman of Burning Blood.

Then I spent 1CP to get 1 artefact from the strategem. I chose Talisman of Burning Blood for the other Demon Prince. I didn't break the strategem rules and I don't have a character with more than 1 artefact. So is this legal? The strategem ruling is only for itself, not a blanket rule for artefacts in general.

Does it specify in the rulebook that artefacts are unique and can only be taken once per army?

The stratagem specifically says you have to choose different artefacts.

Yes, because you can spend 3CP to purchase 2 artefacts of Chaos. It is specifying that you cannot use the strategem to select 2 of the same artefacts and/or give a single character both of the artefacts. The strategem cannot be referencing the free artefact you acquire from having a CSM Warlord. If this was the case it would say so under the Artefact rules on the Artefact page. The fact that it specifies that artefacts selected using the strategem cannot be duplicates implies that otherwise they could be duplicates. If you weren't allowed to take an artefact more than once it wouldn't need to specify this for a strategem that offers the possibility of taking two.

The part that I find confusing and ambiguous is the last sentence of the Gift of Chaos strategem that reads "All of the Artefacts of Chaos that you include must be different and be given to different Chaos Space Marine Characters." Does it mean all of the artefacts included in your army, detachment, or all of the artefacts selected from the strategem? Why is this sentence not located on the Artefacts of Chaos page? This leads me to believe that the sentence is in reference to ONLY the strategem, not Artefacts in general.

**mrhappyface**

Kharneth wrote:

Yes, because you can spend 3CP to purchase 2 artefacts of Chaos. It is specifying that you cannot use the strategem to select 2 of the same artefacts and/or give a single character both of the artefacts. The strategem cannot be referencing the free artefact you acquire from having a CSM Warlord. If this was the case it would say so under the Artefact rules on the Artefact page. The fact that it specifies that artefacts selected using the strategem cannot be duplicates implies that otherwise they could be duplicates. If you weren't allowed to take an artefact more than once it wouldn't need to specify this for a strategem that offers the possibility of taking two.

The part that I find confusing and ambiguous is the last sentence of the Gift of Chaos strategem that reads "All of the Artefacts of Chaos that you include must be different and be given to different Chaos Space Marine Characters." Does it mean all of the artefacts included in your army, detachment, or all of the artefacts selected from the strategem? Why is this sentence not located on the Artefacts of Chaos page? This leads me to believe that the sentence is in reference to ONLY the strategem, not Artefacts in general.

All the artefacts you include in your at must be different. The reason this is stated under the strategam and not with the artefacts is that the strategam is the only way to acquire multiple artifacts.

**Kharneth**

mrhappyface wrote:

All the artefacts you include in your at must be different. The reason this is stated under the strategam and not with the artefacts is that the strategam is the only way to acquire multiple artifacts.

Yeah, all right. You're right. Feels like that kind of thing belongs in the rulebook with the rules for relics.

Speaking of which, when I first made my list I was given the advice to take the Demon Prince as a Demon instead of a CSM because they have better relics. I can't really do this due to the detachment restrictions I'm working with, but I'm wonder if there are some universal relics that might be worth giving my 2nd demon prince. I don't have the rulebook and can't find a list online, are there any you think would be useful? Worth 1CP. I'd move the Talisman of Burning Blood to the strategem and then use my free warlord relic on a universal one.

**mrhappyface**

There's no such thing as universal relics, there's only Codex relics.

I personally run my Daemon Prince as faction DAEMON, not because of any relics but because the DAEMON version gets +1S and +1A on the charge which makes him S8 with 8 attacks. I also deep strike him in to give the Bloodletters re-rolls to hit.

**CountEjacula138**

I'd be terrified if I saw this list across the table from me.

**Kharneth**

mrhappyface wrote:
There's no such thing as universal relics, there's only Codex relics.

I personally run my Daemon Prince as faction DAEMON, not because of any relics but because the DAEMON version gets +1S and +1A on the charge which makes him S8 with 8 attacks. I also deep strike him in to give the Bloodletters re-rolls to hit.

It's totally worth having my DP a CSM because I reeeeeeally wanted the Bloodthirster. He still gets +1A on the charge. No matter, I think I've got my list squared away.

Also lmfao CountEjacula! And thanks.

I'm glad I removed all the shooty guys. I opened my Khorne Daemonkin book to see what actually belonged in the army and sure enough, there were no Obliterators :(

**ShiokenStar**

Glad to see my "random" suggestion showed up in the end.

But the list looks great!