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 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if there are people on here who are so completely deluded they actually believe without a shadow of a doubt that they know the rules better than the gw rules writers. Unbelievable.

To be fair though, a huge part of that is that GW writes rules that require figuring out what they mean most of the time, which is an anathema for tournament/competitive players who feel RAW is all that matters. If they wrote clear and concise rules that weren't ambiguous, you would not have that problem.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 GuardStrider wrote:
On the official FB

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


Vindication (again)!

Is this official enough for everyone?

So, uh, the Community team muddled it up in the comments to that very post.

Warhammer 40,000: This is direct from the studio, Logan: 'Treat these units as having arrived from reserves' which really is shorthand for 'these units cannot move again for any reason (including Warptime) and counts as having moved for firing heavy weapons.'.

In response to Logan McLaren about 1 minute ago. Counting as having arrived from reserves seems to muddle things RIGHT BACK UP AGAIN.

No it doesn't.

It's clear that they can be deployed anywhere, not just their own DZ. It's also clear that they count as having moved and cannot be warptimed/whatever'd to move again.

I can understand this, why can't you?

I think at this point people are trying to misinterpret the rules because they hate the FAQ and they are trying to get other people to dislike it because of abstract logic they applied to rules.

Audustum wrote:
Because they said it counts as reinforcements and reinforcements literally prevents that movement?

I agree, and also fail to see the problem.

They count as reinforcements, but can leave their DZ turn 1, since they were deployed. This is because the new BETA tactical reserves rule is distinct from the FAQ answer/errata disallowing units to e.g. warptime.

And besides, with bespoke rules some units will have exemptions and some wont much like how they mentioned GSC being an exception to which ever rule.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Because they said it counts as reinforcements and reinforcements literally prevents that movement?

I agree, and also fail to see the problem.

They count as reinforcements, but can leave their DZ turn 1, since they were deployed. This is because the new BETA tactical reserves rule is distinct from the FAQ answer/errata disallowing units to e.g. warptime.

That's not the logic. The beta tactical reserve rule says: "Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player's first turn...". Reinforcements begins by saying units that are reinforcements are set up on the battlefield mid-turn. Since they count as reinforcements, they arrived mid-turn and are locked. That's the RAW.

Warptime is an entirely different can of worms because it doesn't remove you from the board and make you arrive mid-turn.

Audustum wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Because they said it counts as reinforcements and reinforcements literally prevents that movement?

I agree, and also fail to see the problem.

They count as reinforcements, but can leave their DZ turn 1, since they were deployed. This is because the new BETA tactical reserves rule is distinct from the FAQ answer/errata disallowing units to e.g. warptime.

That's not the logic. The beta tactical reserve rule says: "Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player's first turn...". Reinforcements begins by saying units that are reinforcements are set up on the battlefield mid-turn. Since they count as reinforcements, they arrived mid-turn and are locked. That's the RAW.

Warptime is an entirely different can of worms because it doesn't remove you from the board and make you arrive mid-turn.

That was RAW, but is no longer, obviously. (Good job FB team getting with the rules writers!)

No, but Warptime is prevented for units that arrived mid-turn, which these units count as, except for the ability to arrive outside of their own DZ, as outlined by the team today.

Are you honestly struggling to understand? Is this really an intellectual challenge for you? Or are you just being willfully ignorant or disingenuous?

" That's the RAW. "

But not the RAI. Just drop it. It's obvious what they meant now.

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if there are people on here who are so completely deluded they actually believe without a shadow of a doubt that they know the rules better than the gw rules writers. Unbelievable.

To be fair though, a huge part of that is that GW writes rules that require figuring out what they mean most of the time, which is an anathema for tournament/competitive players who feel RAW is all that matters. If they wrote clear and concise rules that weren't ambiguous, you would not have that problem.

Thing is we haven't HEARD what rules writer have to say about it. What we have is beta rules which is unclear and then unrelated team member's unofficial opinion.

If confirmation comes from rules writer then good. But so far all we HAVE from rules writer is the very unclear beta rules which can be read either way.

AAE is the one actually claiming to know rules better than rules writer. Others realize they don't know what rule writers meant as the rules are so unclear and rule writers haven't clarified it yet.

(though knowing rules better than rule writers doesn't actually require that much as evidenced by all the "oops did it do that?" reactions by GW when players realize their screw ups)

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Because they said it counts as reinforcements and reinforcements literally prevents that movement?

I agree, and also fail to see the problem.

They count as reinforcements, but can leave their DZ turn 1, since they were deployed. This is because the new BETA tactical reserves rule is distinct from the FAQ answer/errata disallowing units to e.g. warptime.

Where does it say anything about allowing them to setup in the enemy deployment since they were already deployed. Here's the entire text about limiting where you can deep strike. "Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cultsunit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems)." People aren't doing this out of malice because they don't want armies to do things or they hate the faq. They just want the rules to do what they say they do. The rules only say you can set up in the enemy deployment if it is before the first turn ie infiltration or from the 2nd turn onward. If they want exceptions and caveats they should write them in the rules.

This is the problem with Beta rules and why I made a thread about it... Beta rules are never fully clear because it suggests GW themselves havnt even figured out or written the rules properly.

 DominayTrix wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Because they said it counts as reinforcements and reinforcements literally prevents that movement?

I agree, and also fail to see the problem.

They count as reinforcements, but can leave their DZ turn 1, since they were deployed. This is because the new BETA tactical reserves rule is distinct from the FAQ answer/errata disallowing units to e.g. warptime.

Where does it say anything about allowing them to setup in the enemy deployment since they were already deployed. Here's the entire text about limiting where you can deep strike. "Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cultsunit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems)." People aren't doing this out of malice because they don't want armies to do things or they hate the faq. They just want the rules to do what they say they do. The rules only say you can set up in the enemy deployment if it is before the first turn ie infiltration or from the 2nd turn onward. If they want exceptions and caveats they should write them in the rules.

Reading the thread has its advantages:

 GuardStrider wrote:
On the official FB

tneva82 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if there are people on here who are so completely deluded they actually believe without a shadow of a doubt that they know the rules better than the gw rules writers. Unbelievable.

To be fair though, a huge part of that is that GW writes rules that require figuring out what they mean most of the time, which is an anathema for tournament/competitive players who feel RAW is all that matters. If they wrote clear and concise rules that weren't ambiguous, you would not have that problem.

Thing is we haven't HEARD what rules writer have to say about it. What we have is beta rules which is unclear and then unrelated team member's unofficial opinion.

If confirmation comes from rules writer then good. But so far all we HAVE from rules writer is the very unclear beta rules which can be read either way.

AAE is the one actually claiming to know rules better than rules writer. Others realize they don't know what rule writers meant as the rules are so unclear and rule writers haven't clarified it yet.

(though knowing rules better than rule writers doesn't actually require that much as evidenced by all the "oops did it do that?" reactions by GW when players realize their screw ups)

Dude...


They confirmed this is from the official rule writers.

Gw just posted this

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Because they said it counts as reinforcements and reinforcements literally prevents that movement?

I agree, and also fail to see the problem.

They count as reinforcements, but can leave their DZ turn 1, since they were deployed. This is because the new BETA tactical reserves rule is distinct from the FAQ answer/errata disallowing units to e.g. warptime.

That's not the logic. The beta tactical reserve rule says: "Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player's first turn...". Reinforcements begins by saying units that are reinforcements are set up on the battlefield mid-turn. Since they count as reinforcements, they arrived mid-turn and are locked. That's the RAW.

Warptime is an entirely different can of worms because it doesn't remove you from the board and make you arrive mid-turn.

That was RAW, but is no longer, obviously. (Good job FB team getting with the rules writers!)

No, but Warptime is prevented for units that arrived mid-turn, which these units count as, except for the ability to arrive outside of their own DZ, as outlined by the team today.

Are you honestly struggling to understand? Is this really an intellectual challenge for you? Or are you just being willfully ignorant or disingenuous?

There's no struggle here. This isn't a change to the RAW. If you can actually point to any part of their post changing the RAW it would be a small miracle. This post is addressing tactical reserves but the problem was always reinforcements, which they explicitly confirmed these guys are. GW doesn't realize what the problem actually is.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Because they said it counts as reinforcements and reinforcements literally prevents that movement?

I agree, and also fail to see the problem.

They count as reinforcements, but can leave their DZ turn 1, since they were deployed. This is because the new BETA tactical reserves rule is distinct from the FAQ answer/errata disallowing units to e.g. warptime.

Where does it say anything about allowing them to setup in the enemy deployment since they were already deployed. Here's the entire text about limiting where you can deep strike. "Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cultsunit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems)." People aren't doing this out of malice because they don't want armies to do things or they hate the faq. They just want the rules to do what they say they do. The rules only say you can set up in the enemy deployment if it is before the first turn ie infiltration or from the 2nd turn onward. If they want exceptions and caveats they should write them in the rules.

Reading the thread has its advantages:

 GuardStrider wrote:
On the official FB

This is how poorly written rules stick around. I understand what they intended. I get it I really really do. I have no shadow of a doubt what their intentions are after this image. What I am saying is where the gak in the FAQ rules text does that support their claim. Oh it doesn't? Sounds like something needs to get changed. The rules team can intend for a unit to move 10 inches all they want, but if they wrote 8 inches that is what it is. They can release a big pretty picture that says how they want it to move 10 inches, and how great 10 inches is going to be. It does not change that the rule that is written down is 8 inches.

 DominayTrix wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Because they said it counts as reinforcements and reinforcements literally prevents that movement?

I agree, and also fail to see the problem.

They count as reinforcements, but can leave their DZ turn 1, since they were deployed. This is because the new BETA tactical reserves rule is distinct from the FAQ answer/errata disallowing units to e.g. warptime.

Where does it say anything about allowing them to setup in the enemy deployment since they were already deployed. Here's the entire text about limiting where you can deep strike. "Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cultsunit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems)." People aren't doing this out of malice because they don't want armies to do things or they hate the faq. They just want the rules to do what they say they do. The rules only say you can set up in the enemy deployment if it is before the first turn ie infiltration or from the 2nd turn onward. If they want exceptions and caveats they should write them in the rules.

Reading the thread has its advantages:

 GuardStrider wrote:
On the official FB

This is how poorly written rules stick around. I understand what they intended. I get it I really really do. I have no shadow of a doubt what their intentions are after this image. What I am saying is where the gak in the FAQ rules text does that support their claim. Oh it doesn't? Sounds like something needs to get changed. The rules team can intend for a unit to move 10 inches all they want, but if they wrote 8 inches that is what it is. They can release a big pretty picture that says how they want it to move 10 inches, and how great 10 inches is going to be. It does not change that the rule that is written down is 8 inches.

There we go. I agree with this.

 DominayTrix wrote:


This is how poorly written rules stick around. I understand what they intended. I get it I really really do. I have no shadow of a doubt what their intentions are after this image. What I am saying is where the gak in the FAQ rules text does that support their claim. Oh it doesn't? Sounds like something needs to get changed. The rules team can intend for a unit to move 10 inches all they want, but if they wrote 8 inches that is what it is. They can release a big pretty picture that says how they want it to move 10 inches, and how great 10 inches is going to be. It does not change that the rule that is written down is 8 inches.

No it's not. The Beta Rules specify that the Tactical Rules Matched Play Beta Rules applies to units set up in reserves during the deployment. This facebook pic clarifies it for people who doubted that this restriction applied to all aspects of that particular beta rule.

And RAW, any possible rule ambiguity in 40K (such as you doubting that beta tactical reserve rules only apply to units set up in reserve during deployment, arguing instead they partly apply to all reserves, including those set up on the battlefield) needs to be resolved by intent (which is clarified by the Facebook pic) or a D6.

Textualism in rules reading is illegal in 40K and always has been, explicitly being banned by "The most important rule" / "The Golden Rule".

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:


This is how poorly written rules stick around. I understand what they intended. I get it I really really do. I have no shadow of a doubt what their intentions are after this image. What I am saying is where the gak in the FAQ rules text does that support their claim. Oh it doesn't? Sounds like something needs to get changed. The rules team can intend for a unit to move 10 inches all they want, but if they wrote 8 inches that is what it is. They can release a big pretty picture that says how they want it to move 10 inches, and how great 10 inches is going to be. It does not change that the rule that is written down is 8 inches.

No it's not. The Beta Rules specify that the Tactical Rules Matched Play Beta Rules applies to units set up in reserves during the deployment. This facebook pic clarifies it for people who doubted that this restriction applied to all aspects of that particular beta rule.

And RAW, any possible rule ambiguity in 40K (such as you doubting that beta tactical reserve rules only apply to units set up in reserve during deployment, arguing instead they partly apply to all reserves, including those set up on the battlefield) needs to be resolved by intent (which is clarified by the Facebook pic) or a D6.

Textualism in rules reading is illegal in 40K and always has been, explicitly being banned by "The most important rule" / "The Golden Rule".

Uh, the beta rule DOESN'T say what you think it does, RAW, that's the problem.

Rules ambiguity are supposed to be talked over with opponents first, D6 second. Nothing is said about "intent" that I remember. That said, the point of RAW is to make clear rules so you DON'T have to do that and we all start on the same page.

Nothing outlaws textualism in 40k. That's just you fishing for points.

"we spoke to the studio about that FAQ and they told us that 'treat these units as having arrived from reserves' which really is shorthand for 'these units cannot move again for any reason (including Warptime) and counts as having moved for firing heavy weapons.'."

So as the Deceiver is using an ability like this and is treated as having arrived from reserves. Then it doesnt fall under the first turn deepstrike category. But! If they cannot move for any reason does that mean they are just outside of rapidfire range? As the grand illusion rule states they must be set up more than 12".

Trunkello wrote:
"we spoke to the studio about that FAQ and they told us that 'treat these units as having arrived from reserves' which really is shorthand for 'these units cannot move again for any reason (including Warptime) and counts as having moved for firing heavy weapons.'."

So as the Deceiver is using an ability like this and is treated as having arrived from reserves. Then it doesnt fall under the first turn deepstrike category. But! If they cannot move for any reason does that mean they are just outside of rapidfire range? As the grand illusion rule states they must be set up more than 12".

Grand Illusion isn't being set up from reserves, it's redeploying units already set up on the board. Also, the GI rule states that models cannot charge their first turn. You are free to move and shoot normally though.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Because they said it counts as reinforcements and reinforcements literally prevents that movement?

I agree, and also fail to see the problem.

They count as reinforcements, but can leave their DZ turn 1, since they were deployed. This is because the new BETA tactical reserves rule is distinct from the FAQ answer/errata disallowing units to e.g. warptime.

That's not the logic. The beta tactical reserve rule says: "Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player's first turn...". Reinforcements begins by saying units that are reinforcements are set up on the battlefield mid-turn. Since they count as reinforcements, they arrived mid-turn and are locked. That's the RAW.

Warptime is an entirely different can of worms because it doesn't remove you from the board and make you arrive mid-turn.

That was RAW, but is no longer, obviously. (Good job FB team getting with the rules writers!)

No, but Warptime is prevented for units that arrived mid-turn, which these units count as, except for the ability to arrive outside of their own DZ, as outlined by the team today.

Are you honestly struggling to understand? Is this really an intellectual challenge for you? Or are you just being willfully ignorant or disingenuous?

Be nice, this hobby and forum clearly attract a lot of folk pretty far along the spectrum (not being a dick i'm somewhat on it myself).

Trunkello wrote:
"we spoke to the studio about that FAQ and they told us that 'treat these units as having arrived from reserves' which really is shorthand for 'these units cannot move again for any reason (including Warptime) and counts as having moved for firing heavy weapons.'."

So as the Deceiver is using an ability like this and is treated as having arrived from reserves. Then it doesnt fall under the first turn deepstrike category. But! If they cannot move for any reason does that mean they are just outside of rapidfire range? As the grand illusion rule states they must be set up more than 12".

Deceiver is before the first turn begins, They can act normally in your first turn, except for charging.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:


This is how poorly written rules stick around. I understand what they intended. I get it I really really do. I have no shadow of a doubt what their intentions are after this image. What I am saying is where the gak in the FAQ rules text does that support their claim. Oh it doesn't? Sounds like something needs to get changed. The rules team can intend for a unit to move 10 inches all they want, but if they wrote 8 inches that is what it is. They can release a big pretty picture that says how they want it to move 10 inches, and how great 10 inches is going to be. It does not change that the rule that is written down is 8 inches.

No it's not. The Beta Rules specify that the Tactical Rules Matched Play Beta Rules applies to units set up in reserves during the deployment. This facebook pic clarifies it for people who doubted that this restriction applied to all aspects of that particular beta rule.

And RAW, any possible rule ambiguity in 40K (such as you doubting that beta tactical reserve rules only apply to units set up in reserve during deployment, arguing instead they partly apply to all reserves, including those set up on the battlefield) needs to be resolved by intent (which is clarified by the Facebook pic) or a D6.

Textualism in rules reading is illegal in 40K and always has been, explicitly being banned by "The most important rule" / "The Golden Rule".

Here is where your problem is. See where it says any unit. It is not a question of ambiguity. It is clearly 2 different things. Use "any unit that has not been previously deployed" or even "these units" would work better than a word that quite literally broadens the scope to every single unit. The only caveats are at the bottom. Sure the first paragraph talks about units in reserve, but the second paragraph starts by talking about "any units."

 Gojiratoho wrote:

Trunkello wrote:
"we spoke to the studio about that FAQ and they told us that 'treat these units as having arrived from reserves' which really is shorthand for 'these units cannot move again for any reason (including Warptime) and counts as having moved for firing heavy weapons.'."

So as the Deceiver is using an ability like this and is treated as having arrived from reserves. Then it doesnt fall under the first turn deepstrike category. But! If they cannot move for any reason does that mean they are just outside of rapidfire range? As the grand illusion rule states they must be set up more than 12".

Grand Illusion isn't being set up from reserves, it's redeploying units already set up on the board. Also, the GI rule states that models cannot charge their first turn. You are free to move and shoot normally though.

They gave this answer because of an earlier FAQ:
Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and
then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having
moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the
battlefield as reinforcements.
And after that they clarified it more to: 'treat these units ( these as units using a rule to redeploy) as having arrived from reserves' which really is shorthand for 'these units cannot move again for any reason (including Warptime) and counts as having moved for firing heavy weapons.'."

According to this, for me it looks like units redeployed with the Grand illusion cannot move so they will have to stay more than 12" away from enemy units.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:


This is how poorly written rules stick around. I understand what they intended. I get it I really really do. I have no shadow of a doubt what their intentions are after this image. What I am saying is where the gak in the FAQ rules text does that support their claim. Oh it doesn't? Sounds like something needs to get changed. The rules team can intend for a unit to move 10 inches all they want, but if they wrote 8 inches that is what it is. They can release a big pretty picture that says how they want it to move 10 inches, and how great 10 inches is going to be. It does not change that the rule that is written down is 8 inches.

No it's not. The Beta Rules specify that the Tactical Rules Matched Play Beta Rules applies to units set up in reserves during the deployment. This facebook pic clarifies it for people who doubted that this restriction applied to all aspects of that particular beta rule.

And RAW, any possible rule ambiguity in 40K (such as you doubting that beta tactical reserve rules only apply to units set up in reserve during deployment, arguing instead they partly apply to all reserves, including those set up on the battlefield) needs to be resolved by intent (which is clarified by the Facebook pic) or a D6.

Textualism in rules reading is illegal in 40K and always has been, explicitly being banned by "The most important rule" / "The Golden Rule".

Got to disagree with you on the texualism thing, for me it’s pretty much the only fair way to work an out issue with the rules, I find other people far too emotional and irrational on the whole to come up with unbiased interpretations in rules disputes.

Trunkello wrote:

 Gojiratoho wrote:

Trunkello wrote:
"we spoke to the studio about that FAQ and they told us that 'treat these units as having arrived from reserves' which really is shorthand for 'these units cannot move again for any reason (including Warptime) and counts as having moved for firing heavy weapons.'."

So as the Deceiver is using an ability like this and is treated as having arrived from reserves. Then it doesnt fall under the first turn deepstrike category. But! If they cannot move for any reason does that mean they are just outside of rapidfire range? As the grand illusion rule states they must be set up more than 12".

Grand Illusion isn't being set up from reserves, it's redeploying units already set up on the board. Also, the GI rule states that models cannot charge their first turn. You are free to move and shoot normally though.

They gave this answer because of an earlier FAQ:
Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and
then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having
moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the
battlefield as reinforcements.
And after that they clarified it more to: 'treat these units ( these as units using a rule to redeploy) as having arrived from reserves' which really is shorthand for 'these units cannot move again for any reason (including Warptime) and counts as having moved for firing heavy weapons.'."

According to this, for me it looks like units redeployed with the Grand illusion cannot move so they will have to stay more than 12" away from enemy units.

Again, Grand Illusion is after deployment but before the first turn. The question you mention has no bearing on it since it is talking about re-deployment DURING the turn.
A unit redeployed with Grand Illusion acts normally in every single way and would not even count as moving if they don't move in the movement phase. They are only limited to not being allowed to charge.

Trunkello wrote:

 Gojiratoho wrote:

Trunkello wrote:
"we spoke to the studio about that FAQ and they told us that 'treat these units as having arrived from reserves' which really is shorthand for 'these units cannot move again for any reason (including Warptime) and counts as having moved for firing heavy weapons.'."

So as the Deceiver is using an ability like this and is treated as having arrived from reserves. Then it doesnt fall under the first turn deepstrike category. But! If they cannot move for any reason does that mean they are just outside of rapidfire range? As the grand illusion rule states they must be set up more than 12".

Grand Illusion isn't being set up from reserves, it's redeploying units already set up on the board. Also, the GI rule states that models cannot charge their first turn. You are free to move and shoot normally though.

They gave this answer because of an earlier FAQ:
Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and
then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having
moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the
battlefield as reinforcements.
And after that they clarified it more to: 'treat these units ( these as units using a rule to redeploy) as having arrived from reserves' which really is shorthand for 'these units cannot move again for any reason (including Warptime) and counts as having moved for firing heavy weapons.'."

According to this, for me it looks like units redeployed with the Grand illusion cannot move so they will have to stay more than 12" away from enemy units.

Those are for abilities that happen at the end of movement phase or outside a movement phase, and the FAQ was to clarify that they count has having moved for purposes of firing Heavy Weapons or getting to move again. This doesn't affect the GI redeploy ability.

Audustum wrote:


Uh, the beta rule DOESN'T say what you think it does, RAW, that's the problem.

Rules ambiguity are supposed to be talked over with opponents first, D6 second. Nothing is said about "intent" that I remember. That said, the point of RAW is to make clear rules so you DON'T have to do that and we all start on the same page.

Nothing outlaws textualism in 40k. That's just you fishing for points.

Debatable. The text opens up as such. The second and third paragraphs are conjoined by this statement into a singular rule.

They are not actually conjoined like that because of the ANY UNIT that follows which is a completely separate identifier.

They would have had to use "These units".

Furthermore, I like apples.
Therefor applies are now linked to conjoined rule discussions.

"Furthermore" is frequently used to signpost that you're now going to talk about something that's actually fairly independent of the first thing. It's pretty baffling to me that someone could read that and actually think the RAW there isn't restricting all units that arrive on the battlefield rather than just those which were set up elsewhere during deployment.

Furthermore, this is a silly thing to be arguing about still given that we've had the intent clarified (see how that works?).