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DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Custodes get sent off into space as Scouts for the other Custodes. There is a ridiculously low delay their reflexes have to be at for them to be considered too slow to save the Emperor.

As such they retire to planets and other systems as lone wolf agents of the Imperium. If a Xenos invasion comes they might help lead the charge or call upon the Custodes for aid if it’s too tough.

They gather intelligance and set up own networks. Not saying they could build a cult of own to fight for emparor. Even unarmoured one could do formidable damage. I'd imagine this depends on the personally of the indevidual..

They have quiet lines of communication to there kin to summon aid incase of trouble they cannot fight alone. Its does also stand they also act as maybe a counter system. To spy on other impirial too.

Now they are basically immortal.

 Formosa wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Primarchs Peturabo novel adds new information in regards to space marines life span, Warsmith Dantioch estimates the H'Rud Entropic field ages his marines around 3k years to decrepitude and this shows him the "lie" of marines being functionally immortal.

So assuming this is true then no marine we know of has survived long enough to reach "retirement age" naturally, all die through some manner or other long before their bodies begin to age in any meaningful way.

Problem with that reasoning: Hrud entropic weapons do not, as far as I know at least, supply the victim with food, air, or other life sustaining necessities. Just entropy. They aren’t even “fast-forward” guns – they don’t force you to experience thousands of years in an instant – they’re more fundamental than that.
All that applying 3k years worth of entropy to marines really proves is that they aren’t made of stone or metal. Not that a term like “3000 years worth of entropy” really means anything outside of a sci-fi novella; entropy is only related to time in that isolated systems cannot decrease their entropy over time.

It’s doenst matter, it shows that marines are not biologically immortal, between this and phosis tkars obersevations, that myth is now put to bed, marines are not “functionally immortal” “biologically immortal” etc. They are extremely long lived by human standards, that’s all.

You are confusing terms. It MAY, may, show they are not biologically immortal but it is not evidence they are not functionally immortal.

And it's not a stretch for them to be either. We have some biologically immortal animals on Earth right now like certain kinds of jellyfish.

Oh please, not this gak again. No, they're not immortal, why do people keep repeating this blatant lie?

Quoting myself from an old thread:

Crimson wrote:
If we are told that marines have a lifespan many times that of a normal man*, or that Blood Angels have a longer lifespan than other marines**, then we in fact have been told that marines have limited lifespans.

* 6E BRB
** Probably in every BA codex.

Also, Cassius is 'old' when nearing four hundred.



However, it is probably highly unlikely that marine would have a chance to die of old age. They fight all the time, so most of them probably die well before that becomes a concern. And if their abilities start to wane at some point due the age, it makes it even more certain that they will die honourably in a battle.

 Crimson wrote:
Oh please, not this gak again. No, they're not immortal, why do people keep repeating this blatant lie?

Quoting myself from an old thread:

Crimson wrote:
If we are told that marines have a lifespan many times that of a normal man*, or that Blood Angels have a longer lifespan than other marines**, then we in fact have been told that marines have limited lifespans.

* 6E BRB
** Probably in every BA codex.

Also, Cassius is 'old' when nearing four hundred.



However, it is probably highly unlikely that marine would have a chance to die of old age. They fight all the time, so most of them probably die well before that becomes a concern. And if their abilities start to wane at some point due the age, it makes it even more certain that they will die honourably in a battle.

Yep, this is the conclusion we came to. We're told repeatedly that some Marines have longer lifespans than others, ergo their lifespans are naturally limited.

I like the idea of ensuring your aging marines die in battle. It seems fitting to many chapters' ethos to send them out on 'final crusades' and stuff like that. Die with a sword in your hand. That sort of thing

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

I like the idea of ensuring your aging marines die in battle. It seems fitting to many chapters' ethos to send them out on 'final crusades' and stuff like that. Die with a sword in your hand. That sort of thing

Yep.

 Crimson wrote:
Oh please, not this gak again. No, they're not immortal, why do people keep repeating this blatant lie?

Quoting myself from an old thread:

Crimson wrote:
If we are told that marines have a lifespan many times that of a normal man*, or that Blood Angels have a longer lifespan than other marines**, then we in fact have been told that marines have limited lifespans.

* 6E BRB
** Probably in every BA codex.

Also, Cassius is 'old' when nearing four hundred.



However, it is probably highly unlikely that marine would have a chance to die of old age. They fight all the time, so most of them probably die well before that becomes a concern. And if their abilities start to wane at some point due the age, it makes it even more certain that they will die honourably in a battle.

Well that would make Cassius old for an Ultramarine in his position then.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well that would make Cassius old for an Ultramarine in his position then.

Not only that, he's said to be the oldest Ultramarine alive (except for dreadnoughts). He calls his Chapter Master "Young Calgar".

Marines also pick up scars and go grey with age, suggesting their bodies will over time (whatever time that may be) fail and die. They do dangerous things like combat in hazardous environments, taking damage from radiation, chemicals, weapons fire. If they worked as bureaucrats in the Administratum they might live longer, but they weren't made for that.

Besides, when mentioning that there's no fluff example of a Marine dying of old age... Is there any example of a regular human doing so? Most 40K stories are battle stuff or bolter porn for the Marines. Visiting a home for the elderly or a terminal care ward doesn't really fit the bill for what 40K fans want.

Marines are not immortal at all.

It's said of Marines that "provided he does not fall to battle, can easily live two to three times longer than a normal man, and sometimes far longer".

Blood Angels obviously live longer, and there are exceptional individuals in other lineages, but for the most part a Marine will live a few hundred years.

Animus wrote:
Marines are not immortal at all.

It's said of Marines that "provided he does not fall to battle, can easily live two to three times longer than a normal man, and sometimes far longer".

Blood Angels obviously live longer, and there are exceptional individuals in other lineages, but for the most part a Marine will live a few hundred years.

400 years is within the lifespan of humans by the 41st millennium, so I think living 1000+ years for the majority of Marines who do not die in combat is reasonable. I assume they have access to their own version of rejuvenat therapy through apothecaries, and we know they frequently use bionics.

 Haighus wrote:

Animus wrote:
Marines are not immortal at all.

It's said of Marines that "provided he does not fall to battle, can easily live two to three times longer than a normal man, and sometimes far longer".

Blood Angels obviously live longer, and there are exceptional individuals in other lineages, but for the most part a Marine will live a few hundred years.

400 years is within the lifespan of humans by the 41st millennium, so I think living 1000+ years for the majority of Marines who do not die in combat is reasonable. I assume they have access to their own version of rejuvenat therapy through apothecaries, and we know they frequently use bionics.

Depends on what you define as normal. The average human will probably live as long as we do. The rich get rejuvenated and such and live longer. The unlucky live much less in dump worlds.

It's been a while since I read Soul Drinkers, but I seem to remember that when Tellos had his hands torn off by an Electropriest, the apothecary could not fit him with bionics because the nerve endings were fried. The apothecary then consoled him saying that even though Tellos is no longer fit for combat, he will take on the honorable duty of training the neophytes.

So I guess that's as close as being "put out to pasture" due to a crippling injury, when a dreadnought isn't an option.

As to the old age, it's safe to say that no SM will ever die in his bed. I imagine even the oldest (Ulfric, Dante, Grimnar) will eventually run into something strong enough to kill them, and go down in one last glorious battle long before any sort of physical or mental infirmity claims them.

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
As to the old age, it's safe to say that no SM will ever die in his bed. I imagine even the oldest (Ulfric, Dante, Grimnar) will eventually run into something strong enough to kill them, and go down in one last glorious battle long before any sort of physical or mental infirmity claims them.

Considering the state of the galaxy in the 41st millenium and beyond, I agree that it's almost impossible for a marine to survive until he dies of old age. I any case, those who would have such a chance are those who were put to pasture due to injury. These are the Space Marines who have the highest chance of dying of old age. As for the others, we know that Space Marine age and can die of old age, but we also know that they don't lose much in terms of capacity while they age. This allows them to remain in combat position and augment their chances of dying in combat. Should they crash though (AKA lose a lot of capacity very rapidly) and die of old age shortly after, maybe in the span of a few years. It would be possible for a Space Marine who spent all his life fighting of dying of old age in between deployments.

pm713 wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Animus wrote:
Marines are not immortal at all.

It's said of Marines that "provided he does not fall to battle, can easily live two to three times longer than a normal man, and sometimes far longer".

Blood Angels obviously live longer, and there are exceptional individuals in other lineages, but for the most part a Marine will live a few hundred years.

400 years is within the lifespan of humans by the 41st millennium, so I think living 1000+ years for the majority of Marines who do not die in combat is reasonable. I assume they have access to their own version of rejuvenat therapy through apothecaries, and we know they frequently use bionics.

Depends on what you define as normal. The average human will probably live as long as we do. The rich get rejuvenated and such and live longer. The unlucky live much less in dump worlds.

Sigmound lived to around 1000 before being killed by abaddon, fighting in first black crusade and acting as one of thr first groups to defend the Cadian gate.
(subject to future change)

Maybe he slowed, or so. But even slower e they are extremely skilled so even if one had aged. you better be damn careful fighting "aged" marines.

 Crimson wrote:
Oh please, not this gak again. No, they're not immortal, why do people keep repeating this blatant lie?

Quoting myself from an old thread:

Crimson wrote:
If we are told that marines have a lifespan many times that of a normal man*, or that Blood Angels have a longer lifespan than other marines**, then we in fact have been told that marines have limited lifespans.

* 6E BRB
** Probably in every BA codex.

Also, Cassius is 'old' when nearing four hundred.



However, it is probably highly unlikely that marine would have a chance to die of old age. They fight all the time, so most of them probably die well before that becomes a concern. And if their abilities start to wane at some point due the age, it makes it even more certain that they will die honourably in a battle.

Well, it's a lie perpetuated by the Black Library in that case...

Iron Hands are somewhat different though. We have an example of at least one Mechanicus Magos living 10k years through cybernetic augmentations. Iron Hands have a similar ethos and option available.

 ChazSexington wrote:
Well, it's a lie perpetuated by the Black Library in that case...

It wouldn't exactly be a first in this domain or it might be sign that there was a retcon of something in the lore, that the longevity of the Blood Angels is no longer a thing for example. 40K doesn't have a hard canon, everything is thus left in an ever shifting sea of information that coalesce around a certain number of commonly accepted fact and information.

"Put out to pasture", I don't think so.

OTOH, most of them WILL "Buy the farm" at some point before old-age claims them.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Oh please, not this gak again. No, they're not immortal, why do people keep repeating this blatant lie?

Quoting myself from an old thread:

Crimson wrote:
If we are told that marines have a lifespan many times that of a normal man*, or that Blood Angels have a longer lifespan than other marines**, then we in fact have been told that marines have limited lifespans.

* 6E BRB
** Probably in every BA codex.

Also, Cassius is 'old' when nearing four hundred.



However, it is probably highly unlikely that marine would have a chance to die of old age. They fight all the time, so most of them probably die well before that becomes a concern. And if their abilities start to wane at some point due the age, it makes it even more certain that they will die honourably in a battle.

Well, it's a lie perpetuated by the Black Library in that case...

That’s an opinion from a man that works for black library, unless that opinion gets put into print in a book, it is just an opinion.

We also have crimson king that has phosis tkar (may have him name wrong, he is the biomancer), that knows astartes genetics at the cellular level and directly states astartes are not functionally immortal, then we have my previous example against the Hrud that shows they are not, I used to be in the “functionalaly immortal” camp, but new information has changed my mind.

Back in 2nd edition, your average marine had a lifespan of ~500 years. At which point he would be considered too infirm to continue his duties and be given the emperor's thanks (or something like that) which was basically a gun to the head (described as honourable euthanasia).

The only real exceptions to this were the blood angels with their life spans (one of them at the time was old when dante had just joined the scout company and was still alive and kicking when dante was the chapter master). Yes, the word vampire was mentioned regarding the blood angels in one of the 2nd edition starter books in one of the flavour text blurbs.

But things seem to have changed over time, my understanding now is that they are 'functionally immortal' or 'ageless' would probably be a better word for it. Although of course that varies a bit depending on author/source. I think the horus heresy novels is where i first became aware of this development, but memory is a bit hazy.

 Formosa wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Oh please, not this gak again. No, they're not immortal, why do people keep repeating this blatant lie?

Quoting myself from an old thread:

Crimson wrote:
If we are told that marines have a lifespan many times that of a normal man*, or that Blood Angels have a longer lifespan than other marines**, then we in fact have been told that marines have limited lifespans.

* 6E BRB
** Probably in every BA codex.

Also, Cassius is 'old' when nearing four hundred.



However, it is probably highly unlikely that marine would have a chance to die of old age. They fight all the time, so most of them probably die well before that becomes a concern. And if their abilities start to wane at some point due the age, it makes it even more certain that they will die honourably in a battle.

Well, it's a lie perpetuated by the Black Library in that case...

That’s an opinion from a man that works for black library, unless that opinion gets put into print in a book, it is just an opinion.

We also have crimson king that has phosis tkar (may have him name wrong, he is the biomancer), that knows astartes genetics at the cellular level and directly states astartes are not functionally immortal, then we have my previous example against the Hrud that shows they are not, I used to be in the “functionalaly immortal” camp, but new information has changed my mind.

I wouldn't say that the Hrud weapons were aging them as much as making them decay at a fast rate.

no its ageing, its specifically mentioned in several sources.

That seems like a really weird way of killing things. It's fine on things like humans but against Eldar or Orks it must take a bit to kill them and Demons would just waltz through the aging and stab you.

pm713 wrote:
That seems like a really weird way of killing things. It's fine on things like humans but against Eldar or Orks it must take a bit to kill them and Demons would just waltz through the aging and stab you.

Its a natural defence mechanism, they use Hrud Fusils to shoot things, its never explained exactly how the the field works though, its put to great use against the iron warriors, the Hrud just wait out any opposition and it dies quite quickly

That's a pretty sweet thing to just evolve. Does anyone know where Hrud came from? I wouldn't be surprised if the Old Ones made them or something.

pm713 wrote:
That's a pretty sweet thing to just evolve. Does anyone know where Hrud came from? I wouldn't be surprised if the Old Ones made them or something.

It would be a really nice weapon against the Necrontyr who had a very short lifespan

 Formosa wrote:



That’s an opinion from a man that works for black library, unless that opinion gets put into print in a book, it is just an opinion.

We also have crimson king that has phosis tkar (may have him name wrong, he is the biomancer), that knows astartes genetics at the cellular level and directly states astartes are not functionally immortal, then we have my previous example against the Hrud that shows they are not, I used to be in the “functionalaly immortal” camp, but new information has changed my mind.

The "we" is as Black Library. He states they do age, but they go insane. I think there's a Salamander that is 10,000 years old, but wholly insane.

About the hrud, remember that being forcibly aged thousands of years in an instant is quite different from the natural passage of time. There's more to ageing than just more and more entropy.

Aways back in Ian Watsons Space marine. There was a marine of blood something chapter who had his arms and legs hacked off. The Fists thought hed be honourably euthanased or dreadnoughtized.
The Blood marine thought he could still be of erm other uses to his chapter.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Specifically Space Wolves, but any examples of what happens when Marines start to get close to the end of their natural lifespan would be very helpful!

If there's no real literature on it, I'd imagine something like a 'sent out on a suicide mission so you can die an honourable death' would be preferable to 'sent of to the fortress-monastery to scare the new recruits with your battle-scars'.

For reference, I'm making a little Vlka Fenryka warband for Inquisimunda centring around a Long Fang that's approaching the end of his natural lifespan and is showing the odd sign of senility (or, at least, those who oppose his agenda like to spread that rumour around whether there's truth in it or not).

SW have some injured vets who just hang out in the fang, probably teach. This would be super rare, as most injuries can be hob job repaird in 40k. Either you get a bionic implant, or you get crammed in a dreadnought. I guess some injuries are a bit strange.

Space wolves do have suicide missions. Look up lore on Lone Wolves. I would imagine a great deal of lone wolves have injuries, as they are the last survivors from whatever they went to do.

Lastly, as for natural lifespan... I'm not sure what a space marines natural life span is. Logan grimnar has been chapter master for 700 years and is one of the oldest non dreadnought space marines in existence. Bjorn the fell handed is THE oldest "living" astartes, clocking in at over 10,000 years. I'm not sure that natural lifespan is a term the astartes are familiar with.

Some Marines get the bionics saving their life then get stuck off duty forever.