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Hyperspace is essentially The Warp in 40k. But stuff in real space can cast a gravity shadow - which you need to avoid.

Hyperspace Lanes are often considered along the lines of The Webway, physical corridors within that dimension. But that’s not my reading of it. Rather, it’s my understanding (I may be wrong!) that they’re instead routes where the movement of the spheres don’t affect things. The closest equivalency would be looking to run from one corner of a field, to the other. The Perimeter of the field is known to be relatively flat. One could leg it diaganollay right across the field - but there’s all sorts of possible hazards that could turn your ankle when moving at speed. Some have taken the diagonal route, getting where they need to go nice and quickly. But others have done their ankles in. But everyone that’s taken the perimeter route has arrived at their destination,

So whilst Hyperspace Lanes do exist, they more well trodden, reliable paths, rather than an absolute restriction.

It also allows for different sized ships to have different options in terms of what’s a safe route. Consider that a specific route goes through a star system. Due to gravity masses, there may be areas where a larger ship would fall foul of them, but a fighter sized craft can slip between them, just as there’s some roads a HGV can’t go, but a cyclist can.

That’s all just my understanding of it though. It’s quite possible that I’m wrong!

 Peregrine wrote:

And yet this tactic is never used in Star Trek canon, despite the clear advantage to be gained from trading a drone shuttle for a capital ship. The obvious conclusion is that warp ramming is not possible for whatever reason. Perhaps aiming is impossible, perhaps something about the warp drive causes the ship to no longer interact the same way with objects outside of warp.

Why didn't all of the combatants in Star Wars engage in hyperspace ramming?

 dogma wrote:
Why didn't all of the combatants in Star Wars engage in hyperspace ramming?

This is a good question. Clearly there is some limiting factor that we haven't been told about, and it isn't a viable strategy under normal circumstances. But nobody is claiming hyperspace ramming as a strategy here, the Empire still wins easily even if you assume that hyperspace ramming does not exist. As I said, the Empire doesn't need gimmicks and one-shot tricks to win, they simply have superior numbers in every relevant category: better ship vs. ship combat power, vastly better strategic mobility, and no ethical problems with annihilating helpless planets via orbital bombardment. The Empire can simply make a frontal assault on every relevant Federation planet, brush aside any defenses, and kill everything on the surface. All the Federation can do is run away and watch helplessly as their entire civilian population is reduced to ashes.

Federation guards the shipyards and other key planets, starts cranking out Defiant Class ships until they have enough to flood the board (galaxy). I also don't think the Klingons would just stay away from a fight like that.

 Peregrine wrote:

This is a good question. Clearly there is some limiting factor that we haven't been told about, and it isn't a viable strategy under normal circumstances.

That is also quite the assumptive answer.

 Peregrine wrote:

But nobody is claiming hyperspace ramming as a strategy here, the Empire still wins easily even if you assume that hyperspace ramming does not exist. As I said, the Empire doesn't need gimmicks and one-shot tricks to win, they simply have superior numbers in every relevant category: better ship vs. ship combat power, vastly better strategic mobility, and no ethical problems with annihilating helpless planets via orbital bombardment. The Empire can simply make a frontal assault on every relevant Federation plaet, brush aside any defenses, and kill everything on the surface. All the Federation can do is run away and watch helplessly as their entire civilian population is reduced to ashes.

The Empire sure did a great job annihilating all those defenses on Hoth, when it had to land outside the planetary shield the rebels erected.

As to strategic mobility: how fast is the class 2 hyperdrive on an ISD2?

Bran Dawri wrote:
Federation guards the shipyards and other key planets, starts cranking out Defiant Class ships until they have enough to flood the board (galaxy). I also don't think the Klingons would just stay away from a fight like that.

Didn’t manage that against The Dominion....

 Peregrine wrote:

 dogma wrote:
Why didn't all of the combatants in Star Wars engage in hyperspace ramming?

This is a good question. Clearly there is some limiting factor that we haven't been told about, and it isn't a viable strategy under normal circumstances. But nobody is claiming hyperspace ramming as a strategy here, the Empire still wins easily even if you assume that hyperspace ramming does not exist. As I said, the Empire doesn't need gimmicks and one-shot tricks to win, they simply have superior numbers in every relevant category: better ship vs. ship combat power, vastly better strategic mobility, and no ethical problems with annihilating helpless planets via orbital bombardment. The Empire can simply make a frontal assault on every relevant Federation planet, brush aside any defenses, and kill everything on the surface. All the Federation can do is run away and watch helplessly as their entire civilian population is reduced to ashes.

They don't have better ship vs ship combat power. Every ship in startrek is capable of fighting at warp speed which is exponentially faster than light speed by a factor of up to 9.9. Starwars ships are basically using ww2 ERA tech in space. Their turbo lasers can't track small fighters - they certainly can't track ships at warp speed then. Startrek ships would destroy starwars ships like fish in a barrel. It's not like the empire would just suddenly pop into existence - every planet would be heavily defended with only a relatively small force of federation ships required to repel even a large imperial force - because they can't even target the federation ships. The starwars antihyper space tech would have no affect on warp tech - it's an entirely different mechanism.

There is also an argument to be made that starwars ships wouldn't even be able to duke it out at sub warpspeeds against startrek tech. First the startrek ships are more maneuverable (they are immune to inertia) starwars ships are show to be very sluggish. You can almost right off the fighters from starwars as being useless as well. Essentially they would be fodder agaist a heavy phaser bank which can split it's fire and knock out multiple fighters in a single shot (you don't see phasers missing a lot in startrek or fighters really - probably for this exact reason). Second - outside of the deathstar - starwars weaponry is very basic conventional type weaponry. Startrek uses antimatter torpedos that fly at warp speed (can't be intercepted) and phasers are shown to inflict mortal damage to a ship when it is unshielded. It's really looking pretty bad for starwars here in my eyes man.


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 dogma wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

No explicit mention, but they don't even bother changing clothes, no mention is made of lots of time passing, etc. It's clearly presented as a "later that day" situation, and even the most absurdly generous pro-Star-Trek interpretation is that it took a few days. It's certainly less than the centuries required to accomplish the same feat in Star Trek.

Hyperspace is also presented as a series of lanes that bold people map out.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the subject of Warp Speeds in Star Trek, am I right in thinking that most, if not all, Warp Drives can’t maintain the higher speeds indefinitely?

I believe Warp 10 is stated as being impossible, but transwarp is a thing; as is time travel.

This is correct - warp 10 is stated as being transwarp. Which you inhabit every point in the universe at every point in time. It's not impossible. It's been shown in many episodes - it's been show to be very unsafe and therefore unusable. There are also multiple instances in TNG and Voyager in which ships from the future were using a form of it to travel time and instantaneously move to any place in time and space.

 Peregrine wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
There's also the fact that a small craft ramming a Star Destroyer at Warp speeds is going to be far more powerful than main battery fire from said Star Destroyer.

And yet this tactic is never used in Star Trek canon, despite the clear advantage to be gained from trading a drone shuttle for a capital ship. The obvious conclusion is that warp ramming is not possible for whatever reason. Perhaps aiming is impossible, perhaps something about the warp drive causes the ship to no longer interact the same way with objects outside of warp.

And the fact that we're (for some reason) just taking for granted that Imperial shields and/or hulls prevent torpedoes from jus being beamed aboard.

Transporters are shown to be blocked by everything from active shields to natural mineral deposits, and "beam a torpedo into their reactor" is a tactic that is never used. The obvious conclusion is that transporter bombs are incredibly unreliable outside of weird edge case scenarios against a defenseless ship and nobody considers them a serious weapon.

I already mentioned that subspace sensors are why warp ramming doesn't work as a strategy and that the Empire doesn't have those. There's little point in trying to ram a target that can see you and demolish you, but one that can't track FTL targets? What are they going to do?

Transporters aren't used in that way in-universe because Star Trek shields block (normal) transporters. We have no way of knowing whether the Empire's shields work against transporters or not, which illustrates my entire point: you're making assumptions that favour the Empire.

Serious point of reference.

Star Wars Turbolasers, despite their monicker, are [i)not[/i] laser weapons as we understand them. It’s a misnomer, as in ‘less than 12 parsecs’ is confusing a unit of time for a unit of distance (well, until Solo arguably clears it up in a few weeks time).

Star Wars blasters and turbolasers are plasma Weapons. Not lasers. Turbolasers double charge said plasma. And Turbolasers can fire every two seconds. An ISD carries 60 batteries of Turbolasers. And they go about in capital ship squadrons of four....

So far as I can tell, those weapons are comparative to Romulan. Klingon and Ferengi Disruptors.

Seriously. How long will any Federation ship stand up to such a barrage?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
There's little point in trying to ram a target that can see you and demolish you, but one that can't track FTL targets? What are they going to do?

Any evidence that Star Destroyers et al can't track and target ships using warp drive or are you just making assumptions that favour the Federation?


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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


So far as I can tell,

WAY too much of this going on. Seriously, the numbers were ran decades ago using calculations based on on-screen evidence, Star Wars power generation is orders of magnitude over Star Trek and we can extrapolate that to guess that Star Wars shields would be unphased (sorry) by Star Trek weaponry and that just a Turbolaser shot or two would see so many sparks erupting from bridge consoles you'd think it were Bonfire night/4th July/insert big firework holiday here.

 dogma wrote:
That is also quite the assumptive answer.

It's also the only acceptable answer. We do not see hyperspace ramming at any other time, despite the clear potential advantages for winning battles with it. The obvious conclusion is that hyperspace ramming isn't a viable tactic in normal circumstances, even if we don't yet know exactly why.

The Empire sure did a great job annihilating all those defenses on Hoth, when it had to land outside the planetary shield the rebels erected.

That's Star Wars planetary shielding. Star Trek has no equivalent. Nor do they have any equivalent to Vader's desire to capture his son alive instead of turning everything outside the shield to molten glass and leaving the protected area to die.

As to strategic mobility: how fast is the class 2 hyperdrive on an ISD2?

We don't know an explicit answer. We do know that Star Wars hyperspace speeds in general are uniformly presented as fast, crossing the galaxy on the scale of hours to days at most. We know that the rebellion's fleet made the jump from Yavin to Scarif in a matter of minutes at most. And we have no suggestion that star destroyers are meaningfully slower in this context. Even if they're only half as fast as the rebel fleet they're still orders of magnitudes faster than anything Star Trek has.


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 Xenomancers wrote:
They don't have better ship vs ship combat power.

They really do. People have done the calculations based on on-screen evidence. Star Wars ships have firepower (and therefore defense) orders of magnitude higher than Star Trek ships. It's a case of 1500s sailing ship vs. WWII battleship.

Every ship in startrek is capable of fighting at warp speed which is exponentially faster than light speed by a factor of up to 9.9.

And yet they regularly fight at slow sublight speeds, and still manage to miss near-stationary targets at point blank range! This supposed FTL combat capability seems highly overstated.

First the startrek ships are more maneuverable (they are immune to inertia) starwars ships are show to be very sluggish.

Star Trek ships are, over and over again, shown on-screen to be barely capable of maneuvering. And yet somehow this laughable level of maneuverability is enough to cause enemy shots to miss!

Startrek uses antimatter torpedos that fly at warp speed (can't be intercepted)

Except when those antimatter torpedoes fly at very slow sublight speeds and do about as much damage as a 15th century cannonball smashing through the target.

and phasers are shown to inflict mortal damage to a ship when it is unshielded

Except when they barely scratch an unshielded target.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again, if you're arguing for Star Trek you need to watch this:




Aside from the sheer execution-worthy incompetence of everyone involved this is what the creators of Star Trek decided to portray when they had the maximum possible budget for a movie, without the limits of a TV episode. Both ships are moving at slow sublight speeds, the Enterprise's "evasive maneuver" of very slowly turning a bit is enough to cause the Klingon ship's disruptor fire to miss entirely, and despite the shield penetration gimmick the Enterprise appears to take very little damage. At no point does the Klingon ship, despite having the ability to ignore the Enterprise's shields, beam a bomb into the Enterprise's warp core. At no point does either ship go FTL or use their magic auto-hit phasers or warp speed torpedoes. In fact, despite the Enterprise supposedly having only two seconds to deliver a kill shot once the cloak starts to engage their torpedo shot moves incredibly slowly across the very short distance between ships, taking well over two seconds in the process. Both ships have considerable incentive to use the supposed high-end capabilities of Star Trek ships, and they don't. The inescapable conclusion is that these capabilities do not exist.

 Peregrine wrote:
The inescapable conclusion is that these capabilities do not exist.

No, the inescapable conclusion is that they are trying to create a spectacle that will make people pay £10 to sit in a movie theatre for 2 hours. It would be a pretty short film if they just transported a photon warhead over.

Cheers

Andrew

Startrek uses antimatter torpedos that fly at warp speed (can't be intercepted)

 AndrewC wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
The inescapable conclusion is that these capabilities do not exist.

No, the inescapable conclusion is that they are trying to create a spectacle that will make people pay £10 to sit in a movie theatre for 2 hours. It would be a pretty short film if they just transported a photon warhead over.

Cheers

Andrew

Nah, the inescapable conclusion is because we see a thing happen one way once, then the hundreds of times we see it happen in other ways don't matter.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
The inescapable conclusion is that these capabilities do not exist.

No, the inescapable conclusion is that they are trying to create a spectacle that will make people pay £10 to sit in a movie theatre for 2 hours. It would be a pretty short film if they just transported a photon warhead over.

Cheers

Andrew

Nah, the inescapable conclusion is because we see a thing happen one way once, then the hundreds of times we see it happen in other ways don't matter.

When are we shown the other way happening hundreds of times? Genuine question as I am not that familiar with TOS but can anyone cite episode numbers for warp speed strafing/combat? Or torpedoes that fly at warp speed, because that would mean they are going faster than light and thus not visible?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
A functional immunity to attack is worth much more than a 2:1 ratio.

There's also the slight issue of what would happen to a Star Destroyer that got rammed by something travelling at Warp. A version of the Cardassian Dreadnought missile wouldn't even need a warhead; if the enemy can't even see your autonomous ship they can't do anything about their impending demise. This isn't done in-universe because subspace sensors handily defeat such tactics, but the Empire doesn't have those, do they?

Except they have developed them as of TLJ, and were researching them as far back as Rogue One.

 Riquende wrote:

Startrek uses antimatter torpedos that fly at warp speed (can't be intercepted)

Such Warp. Much FTL. Maybe the movie is just shot at 1/1000000000th speed? Then the ships on screen might also be doing that fancy warp strafing that never seems to actually happen.

 dogma wrote:
Was there ever a point that the speed of hyperdrive was established?

An exact velocity? No.

But Anakin and Padme took the equivalent of a bus from Coruscant in the core to Naboo in the Outer Rim territories instead of a cruise ship. It couldn't have been more than a couple days.

Not to mention Yoda making it from Coruscant to Kamino to Geonosis within a couple days, and several dozen Jedi getting there from... wherever... in the same period.

And in the original series the Rebel fleet was based clear outside the galaxy - indeed, several times the width of the galaxy outside the galaxy - and regular travel back and forth is implied. You just can't do that unless you've got a REALLY good hyperspace drive. Just climbing out of the gravity well of the galaxy is an impressive feat.

In contrast, it takes even the Ultrawarp Enterprise-D months just to cross the Federation, which itself is only a small portion of it's galaxy...


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Bran Dawri wrote:
Federation guards the shipyards and other key planets, starts cranking out Defiant Class ships until they have enough to flood the board (galaxy). I also don't think the Klingons would just stay away from a fight like that.

You assume the Emperor wouldn't be goading them on to weaken them AND the Federation before making his move to conquer both.

I can promise you, Palpatine would not overlook that option.

For that matter, what if Palpatine decides to reprise his plan to take over the Republic... and uses politics to take over the Federation from the inside? Remember, this man is one smooooooth operator. The Jedi Council trusted him almost completely. The only way they found out he was the Sith Lord was when he told Anakin point-blank... and even THAT was part of his plan. As faction-ridden as the Federation has been shown to be, I'll take Palpatine in a political takeover of the Federation every time.

Which means by the time the Fleet arrives, he's a) already the Federation President, and b) sent ALL the plans for all the Federation's nifty toys back home to be incorporated into his fleet...

I can say the same thing in regards to imperial star destroyers power.

There's a scene in RoTJ where a medical frigate is going toe to toe with an imperial star destroyer broadside. The star destroyer is putting out a seemingly equal number of shots as the medical frigate yet the star destroyer should have about 30 times the firepower per their specs in starwars literature.

Can you show me in film? A star destroyer using all 50 turbo lasers 50 ion cannons and 25 concussion missile launchers? A star destroyer has never once in film been show firing a missile. Yet I can show you in film - photon torpedoes evaporating ships in a single shot.

In fact - in a star wars movie we have never actually seen a star destroyer utilizing it's weapons in an effective way. Typically they sit back and let their fighters do the work.

You can probably show me a few scenes in film where photon torpedos aren't doing as much damage as they should be (it's just not thematic to see the enterprise being 1 shot by a bird of prey) We really just need to focus on what the capabilities of the ships should be knowing what we know.

We know startrek ships can fight at warp speed
We know that star destroyers weapons are ineffective against fast moving targets.
The only conclusion that can be drawn is that starwars ships would be ineffective against startrek tech.

The only tech in starwars which is even close to the power of startrek is hyperspace travel. I mean heck - looking at TLJ - how hard would it be for federation ships to stay out of effective range from turbo lasers (which actually arc in space like an artillery shell) and just blast them away with photon torpedos which are effective at 300k kilometers?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vulcan wrote:

 dogma wrote:
Was there ever a point that the speed of hyperdrive was established?

An exact velocity? No.

But Anakin and Padme took the equivalent of a bus from Coruscant in the core to Naboo in the Outer Rim territories instead of a cruise ship. It couldn't have been more than a couple days.

Not to mention Yoda making it from Coruscant to Kamino to Geonosis within a couple days, and several dozen Jedi getting there from... wherever... in the same period.

And in the original series the Rebel fleet was based clear outside the galaxy - indeed, several times the width of the galaxy outside the galaxy - and regular travel back and forth is implied. You just can't do that unless you've got a REALLY good hyperspace drive. Just climbing out of the gravity well of the galaxy is an impressive feat.

In contrast, it takes even the Ultrawarp Enterprise-D months just to cross the Federation, which itself is only a small portion of it's galaxy...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bran Dawri wrote:
Federation guards the shipyards and other key planets, starts cranking out Defiant Class ships until they have enough to flood the board (galaxy). I also don't think the Klingons would just stay away from a fight like that.

You assume the Emperor wouldn't be goading them on to weaken them AND the Federation before making his move to conquer both.

I can promise you, Palpatine would not overlook that option.

For that matter, what if Palpatine decides to reprise his plan to take over the Republic... and uses politics to take over the Federation from the inside? Remember, this man is one smooooooth operator. The Jedi Council trusted him almost completely. The only way they found out he was the Sith Lord was when he told Anakin point-blank... and even THAT was part of his plan. As faction-ridden as the Federation has been shown to be, I'll take Palpatine in a political takeover of the Federation every time.

Which means by the time the Fleet arrives, he's a) already the Federation President, and b) sent ALL the plans for all the Federation's nifty toys back home to be incorporated into his fleet...

The dominion actually had a shape shifter in command of Starfleet trying to destroy them from the inside - they were caught - they failed. The federation beat the dominion - which is the startrek analog to the empire. Though they are seemingly more powerful - often fielding fleets over over 1000 wearships in film. I've never seen a fleet bigger than 25 ships in starwars. Is the empire really that strong?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


I believe he’s meaning protype Cardassian torpedoes as used by the Maquis ( not de sade) in a DS9 episode.

Oh the one Torres helped make and randomly ran into in the delta quadrant? (what're the odds?)

So like most Trek plans in this thread, it's a prototype/experimental bit of tech seen in one episode and never used in anger for reasons, and yet is being cited as "Trek has this and Wars has no counter". I'll just file it with "Time Travel would be constantly used to negate all speed/firepower/shielding/armour/number advantages" and "Q would snap his fingers for insta-win".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the same damn post!

 Xenomancers wrote:

You can probably show me a few scenes in film where photon torpedos aren't doing as much damage as they should be (it's just not thematic to see the enterprise being 1 shot by a bird of prey) We really just need to focus on what the capabilities of the ships should be knowing what we know.

.........

The federation beat the dominion - which is the startrek analog to the empire. Though they are seemingly more powerful - often fielding fleets over over 1000 wearships in film. I've never seen a fleet bigger than 25 ships in starwars. Is the empire really that strong?

So in the first instance we need to focus on knowing what we know (what a character has said in engineering maybe, or data pulled from a technical manual), and ignoring the on screen events. But then by the end of the post we can safely jettison what we know (the Empire rules with an iron fist over thousands of systems) and go with the visual evidence.

I'm just about out here, it's nothing but handwaving and phrases starting "we know..." without actually producing evidence. Equating Palpatine's democratic coup with the Dominion's enemy agent infiltration saying "he would get caught" is a staggering display of ignorance. Ignoring all firepower calculations with "well they couldn't hit them anyway" even when the vast majority of ST combat that isn't the Defiant is two ships floating in space firing a shot every second or so at an equally slow target.

The Dominion War is damning on most Federation claims because it shows an absolute failure to perform any of the killer tactics often cited as up the Federation's sleeve when faced with a numerically and technologically comparable (let alone superior) enemy force. Crank out awesome Defiant-class vessels to deal with the invaders? Well, they managed to make at least 2 more during the war, and in some of the long shots there might have been a couple more, but vast wings of the things destroying all before them? Miraculously failed to happen. And how do you crew all these cranked out ships? Conscription? Nope, we're hearing now about holo-crews, or crews brought magically into existence via transporter cloning (no ethical concerns there, no sir).

It's okay though because Section 31 don't mind getting their hands dirty. They can just make a nerve agent that targets... humans (oops) or send an assassin to take down Vader or Palpatine (hmm).

 Xenomancers wrote:
There's a scene in RoTJ where a medical frigate is going toe to toe with an imperial star destroyer broadside. The star destroyer is putting out a seemingly equal number of shots as the medical frigate yet the star destroyer should have about 30 times the firepower per their specs in starwars literature.

The shot is also an extreme closeup where most of the star destroyer is off camera. This means nothing.

Can you show me in film? A star destroyer using all 50 turbo lasers 50 ion cannons and 25 concussion missile launchers?

Can you give me a reason to care? We know that the star destroyer has a lot of guns in its main battery, as they're clearly visible on the model. And we know that it has secondary weapons that are invisibly tiny at the distance that we most commonly see the ship. Is there any reason to doubt the 50/50 estimate as at least roughly accurate? Keep in mind that Star Wars firepower levels are orders of magnitude higher, so even "proving" that it only has half as many guns and zero missiles would be worthless.

Yet I can show you in film - photon torpedoes evaporating ships in a single shot.

And I can show you photon torpedoes doing damage on par with 15th century cannonballs.

In fact - in a star wars movie we have never actually seen a star destroyer utilizing it's weapons in an effective way. Typically they sit back and let their fighters do the work.

Wrong. We see them shooting in multiple scenes, even though the fighters are typically the focus of most shots with the capital ships in the background.

(it's just not thematic to see the enterprise being 1 shot by a bird of prey)

Theme is irrelevant, only results matter. It doesn't matter why we see pathetic firepower levels, it only matters that we see them. And we do.

We know startrek ships can fight at warp speed

And we also know that, when given the opportunity to do so (with a movie-level budget to do whatever the creator wants to portray) they fight at slow sublight speeds and extremely short range. And despite this they still manage to miss!

I mean heck - looking at TLJ - how hard would it be for federation ships to stay out of effective range from turbo lasers (which actually arc in space like an artillery shell) and just blast them away with photon torpedos which are effective at 300k kilometers?

Pretty difficult given the failure to live up to those ranges on-screen, and the pathetic firepower levels involved. It's quite likely that, even if you grant the absurd range advantage in direct contradiction to canon evidence, the star destroyers could simply enter orbit, ignore the pathetic damage from the incoming torpedoes, and slaughter the entire population on the surface while the Star Trek ships watch helplessly.

 Vulcan wrote:

And in the original series the Rebel fleet was based clear outside the galaxy - indeed, several times the width of the galaxy outside the galaxy - and regular travel back and forth is implied. You just can't do that unless you've got a REALLY good hyperspace drive. Just climbing out of the gravity well of the galaxy is an impressive feat.

Yavin is inside the prime Star Wars galaxy, so is Hoth., so is Tatooine. They're all in the amorphous thing called the Outer Rim.

 Vulcan wrote:

In contrast, it takes even the Ultrawarp Enterprise-D months just to cross te Federation, which itself is only a small portion of it's galaxy...

A large portion of the Star Wars Galaxy is classified as "Unknown Regions" because hyperspace explorers don't want to go there.

 Peregrine wrote:

It's also the only acceptable answer. We do not see hyperspace ramming at any other time, despite the clear potential advantages for winning battles with it. The obvious conclusion is that hyperspace ramming isn't a viable tactic in normal circumstances, even if we don't yet know exactly why.

The other conclusion is that The Empire, supposedly populated by ruthless people, is also populated by dumb people.

 dogma wrote:
Yavin is inside the prime Star Wars galaxy, so is Hoth., so is Tatooine. They're all in the amorphous thing called the Outer Rim.

And note that travel time to get to this meeting point outside the galaxy was so short that they didn't bother trying to get Luke to a local hospital to deal with a major injury, they took him straight to the rebel fleet.

Cannon has it as a "protostar".

 dogma wrote:
Cannon has it as a "protostar".

{citation needed}

On screen it's clearly a galaxy, the script says it's a galaxy, the novelization says that it's a galaxy, and the person in charge of deciding Star Wars canon explicitly said that it is the Star Wars galaxy.

Who is the person in charge of deciding Star Wars canon?

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Who is the person in charge of deciding Star Wars canon?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leland_Chee

 Peregrine wrote:

{citation needed}

It is cannon, look it up on Wookiepedia.

 Peregrine wrote:

On screen it's clearly a galaxy, the script says it's a galaxy, the novelization says that it's a galaxy, and the person in charge of deciding Star Wars canon explicitly said that it is the Star Wars galaxy.

So you're going against cannon.

 dogma wrote:
So you're going against cannon.

No, I am citing canon sources, including a statement from the person whose job is to determine what is and isn't canon. The fact that you don't like what canon statements imply for Star Wars travel speeds does not concern me.

Not that your weird crusade here really matters, as there are plenty of other canon sources for travel speeds vastly higher than what Star Trek ships are capable of. The rebel meeting point outside the galaxy is merely the most dramatic one.

You lead with "citation needed", and are following with a personal attack; why?