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So I think this one might be up to interpretation but I would like to get some feedback here on the matter.

My friend and I have been playing a few games recently, (he is DG and I'm necrons). So obviously I have a nice gunline and he has a lot of poxwalkers to "screen" his plague marines from fire, and this is how we have been playing.

If he has some poxwalkers in front of his plague marines, I have been only targetting the pox. Is this the correct interpretation of LOS or am I able to target them, (providing they are in range).

How does everyone else play and are people granted cover for this?

Sorry but I am confused on this matter. Feel free to PM me if you don't wish to post your opinion if it is "too ruley"

Unless its a character with a wound characteristic of less than 10 you can shoot whatever your models can see.

You are currently shooting at "the closest model". Unless its a character you can shoot at any units in range of your weapon.

There is no such thing as "screen for shooting."

So basically the below could be done without any issues at all?

See attached:

Is there any ruling, LOS or nothing to stop that happening?

 Weylynx wrote:
So I think this one might be up to interpretation but I would like to get some feedback here on the matter.

My friend and I have been playing a few games recently, (he is DG and I'm necrons). So obviously I have a nice gunline and he has a lot of poxwalkers to "screen" his plague marines from fire, and this is how we have been playing.

If he has some poxwalkers in front of his plague marines, I have been only targetting the pox. Is this the correct interpretation of LOS or am I able to target them, (providing they are in range).

How does everyone else play and are people granted cover for this?

Sorry but I am confused on this matter. Feel free to PM me if you don't wish to post your opinion if it is "too ruley"

All the screen does is make it harder for you to charge his Plague Marines. Only Characters can be screened like that for shooting. You can shoot the Plague Marines all you want.

Also, don't ever be ashamed for wanting to play the game by the rules. Your opponent is the one in the wrong here. If he gets catty about you wanting to play by the rules, don't play with him anymore.

No no no, nothing like that. We are both fairly new to the game and it was me who was shooting like this, as logically it made more sense to shoot the closest as say 30 poxwalkers "block" units further back.

There are no hard feelings as we are both really good friends and learning and we just want to both play to the official rules.

Thanks for the replies!

I believe there is a Death Guard Strategem that forces you to shoot the closest models to your unit.

I think its Something about a cloud of flies.

 Rhomen wrote:
I believe there is a Death Guard Strategem that forces you to shoot the closest models to your unit.

I think its Something about a cloud of flies.

It basically let's an infantry unit get the same protection as a character. It doesn't force to shoot the closest unit.

If he has enough screening units, it may not be possible to draw line of sight to the models behind the screens to actually fire. But generally speaking if a unit is not a <10 W character or within 1" of an enemy unit (close combat), you can target anything in range of your unit's weaponry and line of sight.

So can I ask if the general rules for this then has been updated or again most things are down to interpretation.

Ive just read the "Section 2, Choose target" and it says "and be visible to the shooting model. If you are unsure, stoop down and check if the firing unit can see any model at the firing unit". (Paraphrased).

So I wonder if this has been altered recently in any erratta?

Sorry im being a pain, but we really want to play to the rules.

 Weylynx wrote:
So can I ask if the general rules for this then has been updated or again most things are down to interpretation.

Ive just read the "Section 2, Choose target" and it says "and be visible to the shooting model. If you are unsure, stoop down and check if the firing unit can see any model at the firing unit". (Paraphrased).

So I wonder if this has been altered recently in any erratta?

Sorry im being a pain, but we really want to play to the rules.

Units do not block visibility by being units, the unit behind the poxwalkers have to be literally blocked entirely by the screening units physical models. If you can see even the tiniest sliver of the model you can shoot it.

This is still the case and has been since 8th released.

@BaconCatBug - Thanks for that then. Good to know!!

As BCB said, if you can see any bit of the model, you can shoot it. The only exceptions are for characters under 10 wounds (in the diagram you put up, you wouldn't be able to shoot the character unless he had 0 or more wounds) or a special rule (like someone playing a stratagem) that affects your targeting ability. Barring a special rule, you would be able to shoot anything in your diagram except the character.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Units do not block visibility by being units, the unit behind the poxwalkers have to be literally blocked entirely by the screening units physical models. If you can see even the tiniest sliver of the model you can shoot it.

This is still the case and has been since 8th released.

To add to this, models can look through other models in the same unit, but models from other units (friendly or enemy) can block LOS.

It was once the case that you had to target the nearest unit, in earlier editions, but that is no longer the case.

You can also, if you wish, fire some of the weapons of your unit at the poxwalkers, and the rest of the weapons at the plague marines (if they are both in range and you can see them). So can for example get your rapid fire weapons on the nearer unit for better effect, and heavy/assault type weapons on the marines as they are generally a bit harder hitting.

 Kcalehc wrote:
It was once the case that you had to target the nearest unit...

Unless you passed a Leadership check to target a different unit

If he has multiple ranks then it may end up blocking LoS. But that's fairly unlikely. If your unit can see his unit (and it's not a character with under 10 Wounds), then you can shoot it. But he may get a cover save from the intervening infantry unit.

 Lion of Caliban wrote:
If he has multiple ranks then it may end up blocking LoS. But that's fairly unlikely. If your unit can see his unit (and it's not a character with under 10 Wounds), then you can shoot it. But he may get a cover save from the intervening infantry unit.

It is essentially impossible to block LoS with an intervening unit. You can always see something in the gaps between a model's legs, under their arms, etc. Even with vehicles you can see under them (remember that LoS is drawn from any part of the model to any part so boot to boot is okay).

Also, intervening units do not grant cover.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

It is essentially impossible to block LoS with an intervening unit.

No, its not. With enough models you can block LoS.

yea it is possible you bunch up 50 models in a combat you aint likely seeing through that.

tell your friend about the strategem cloud of flies it means he can legally make you not able to target his plague marines unless they are the closest

10 SM are enough to block LoS on a single guard infantry model, even 5 may do it.

 p5freak wrote:
10 SM are enough to block LoS on a single guard infantry model, even 5 may do it.

So you're going to use 50-100 marines to block LoS to a squad of guardsmen? Remember you only need LoS to one tiny part of one model.

Like I said, essentially impossible to block LoS with AN intervening unit.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

So you're going to use 50-100 marines to block LoS to a squad of guardsmen? Remember you only need LoS to one tiny part of one model.

No. Its the last turn. Few units are left on the battlefield. That one lonely guardsman is the last model defending an objective which gives me the one point to win the game. My opponent cant see him because my 5 SM completely block LoS to him.

 p5freak wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

So you're going to use 50-100 marines to block LoS to a squad of guardsmen? Remember you only need LoS to one tiny part of one model.

No. Its the last turn. Few units are left on the battlefield. That one lonely guardsman is the last model defending an objective which gives me the one point to win the game. My opponent cant see him because my 5 SM completely block LoS to him.

Unless the opponent moves an inch or two. There is zero way to stop an opponent getting LoS on that guardsman with 5 marines unless the opponent's model is immobile. You have to overlap the marines so heavily to block LoS that they only block it in a very narrow arc.

That all assumes that they need los to shoot in the first place.
But I would doubt even 5 marines carefully arranged in the LOS could actually block LOS give 8th eddition LOS rules.

A finger, gun barrel, piece of base means its weapons free shooting without penalties.

Ice_can wrote:
That all assumes that they need los to shoot in the first place.
But I would doubt even 5 marines carefully arranged in the LOS could actually block LOS give 8th eddition LOS rules.

A finger, gun barrel, piece of base means its weapons free shooting without penalties.

Exactly - if you lined them up perfectly then maybe they could block LoS from a specific point but if the firer moves slightly then they have LoS again.

Thanks for all the replies here, I think it is now very clear what can and cannot be done with LOS and blocking.

TL;DR version for those coming in, you can shoot anything as long as it is in range and you can see it, get down and look and any tiny part of the model is visible, open fire.

Many thanks!

My Marines wear skirts, large hats and shoulder pads that would be the envy of eighties fashion. I'm toying with the idea that they all need huge war banners, 3 of those can block LOS to a landraider

 p5freak wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

It is essentially impossible to block LoS with an intervening unit.

No, its not. With enough models you can block LoS.

However in this particular situation, it is impossible...assuming a level table.

Necron Warriors, Destroyers, etc are taller than Poxwalkers.
Plague Marines are also taller than Poxwalkers.

So even if you have enough Poxwalkers to field a solid wall that cannot be seen THROUGH, the Necrons units can still see OVER that wall to shoot the Plague Marines.
The main issue that probably will come up is Range. That many Poxwalkers between them might mean the Necrons are out of range to shoot the Plague Marines, but by God they can still see them.

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