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Im debating on what type of rubric marine to bring against Orks. 200 points of Warpflamers deals 9.5 wounds vs boys, while inferno bolters deal 6.5 in rapid fire, 3.5 beyond. Is the extra shooting phases worth taking bolters, or is the hilariously good overwatch better?

So, Orks are faster than you expect at times. They WILL get to combat if you don't have huge screens. If you're not building a TAC list you could take a bunch of Warpflamers and not suffer much for it, because 1) Orks don't have lots of shooting that makes Rubrics scared and, 2) they hate bringing Trukks to block overwatch.

I wouldn't take ALL flamers, but 2 or 3 should do well. Don't forget VotLW.

If the opponent knows they're Warpflamers (and I'm assuming an 8" range here), then he'll start his charge from 8.1" away, with a re-roll from Ere' We Go and still reliably make that charge. Getting the entire unit in range would also be problematic.
I'd suggest having some, but not being totally dependent on them.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
So, Orks are faster than you expect at times. They WILL get to combat if you don't have huge screens. If you're not building a TAC list you could take a bunch of Warpflamers and not suffer much for it, because 1) Orks don't have lots of shooting that makes Rubrics scared and, 2) they hate bringing Trukks to block overwatch.

I wouldn't take ALL flamers, but 2 or 3 should do well. Don't forget VotLW.

My original list had 80 cultists to screen 5 occult termies and 10 rubrics, the rubrics taking 6 bolters, 2 flamers and a cannon.

Judging by the two replies, thats a fine balance?

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
So, Orks are faster than you expect at times. They WILL get to combat if you don't have huge screens. If you're not building a TAC list you could take a bunch of Warpflamers and not suffer much for it, because 1) Orks don't have lots of shooting that makes Rubrics scared and, 2) they hate bringing Trukks to block overwatch.

I wouldn't take ALL flamers, but 2 or 3 should do well. Don't forget VotLW.

My original list had 80 cultists to screen 5 occult termies and 10 rubrics, the rubrics taking 6 bolters, 2 flamers and a cannon.

Judging by the two replies, thats a fine balance?

Yea i'd say so. You can also take a Rhino and stick 9 flamers in there. Then when the time is right bail out, warp time, and flame. Not the BEST thing, but damn fun.

I'm strongly in the no-flamers camp. If you want flamers bring Flamers. Inferno bolters are a really nice weapon with votlw, so I prefer 100% those. If you bring just one or two flamers it actually feels a lot like gimping yourself, as when you fire you really miss those bolters. As someone has already pointed out, flamers suffer as anti-charge tech because any player worth their salt will be making their charge from 8.1" away.

Warpflamers are PURE trash. Why? Two reasons. 8 inch range and 15 points. But really its the 15 points that kill it dead.

I should not say pure, because adding one or two to a large blob of rubrics and hoping the person you are playing does not know the range of them is not such a bad deal.

But seriously, 15 points for a flamer.

If the points were near a regular Flamer it might not suck.

At most you can do a full unit in a Drill and then rush up and use Vets. That would melt basically anything but not worth it for the point cost.

I used to run a squad of 7 Rubrics with 6 Warpflamers coming from Deepstrike and using Warptime to get in range. They've almost always been great, killing plenty of things both in the Shooting phase and in Overwatch.

However, ever since the Nerf bat fell down on Warptime, I have not tried to play them. They might do ok in a Rhino, but imo that makes them really too expensive (225pts for a squad of 7 Rubrics is ok, but 300pts is too much imo).

Table wrote:
Warpflamers are PURE trash. Why? Two reasons. 8 inch range and 15 points. But really its the 15 points that kill it dead.

I should not say pure, because adding one or two to a large blob of rubrics and hoping the person you are playing does not know the range of them is not such a bad deal.

But seriously, 15 points for a flamer.

Well, it is -2AP, which is pretty special for a flamer.
Its price is prohibitive, but that's the point, otherwise you could have quite a few -2AP automatic hits. Maybe a few points less because of its limited range, but it should be more than a standard flamer. Though standard flamers are pretty overpriced as well, imo. They should really be about half the price.
I wouldn't advise stocking up on them as they do have short range. Even deepstriking would put them out of range. Which again, is probably the point, deepstriking a squad of 5 flamers with automatic hits can be dangerous.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Table wrote:
Warpflamers are PURE trash. Why? Two reasons. 8 inch range and 15 points. But really its the 15 points that kill it dead.

I should not say pure, because adding one or two to a large blob of rubrics and hoping the person you are playing does not know the range of them is not such a bad deal.

But seriously, 15 points for a flamer.

Well, it is -2AP, which is pretty special for a flamer.
Its price is prohibitive, but that's the point, otherwise you could have quite a few -2AP automatic hits. Maybe a few points less because of its limited range, but it should be more than a standard flamer. Though standard flamers are pretty overpriced as well, imo. They should really be about half the price.
I wouldn't advise stocking up on them as they do have short range. Even deepstriking would put them out of range. Which again, is probably the point, deepstriking a squad of 5 flamers with automatic hits can be dangerous.

A str 4 ap2 d1 weapon is not worth 15 points. 8-9 perhaps. For each time you roll 6 auro hits you will also roll 1 auto hit. The price is way way to high. Look at it this way. I can grab a rubric marine with a warp flamer for 34 points (or near it) or you can get a flamer chaos demon with a +4 invuln two wounds and 12 inch range that can be cheaply deep striked into range. Its a no brainer honestly.

Warp Flamers are bad.

Warp Flamers are a good 1 or 2 of. They're excellent I'm Overwatch and would make certain opponents try to charge outside their range. They aren't necessary at all though and probably won't be needed as a whole.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Warp Flamers are a good 1 or 2 of. They're excellent I'm Overwatch and would make certain opponents try to charge outside their range. They aren't necessary at all though and probably won't be needed as a whole.

I mentioned the two for overwatch above but honestly I may have better use for 30 points. Guess it wont break you to do so. For the record I also think regular flamers are over costed. I would like to see flamers go down to 5 points and warp flamers to 8.

Table wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Warp Flamers are a good 1 or 2 of. They're excellent I'm Overwatch and would make certain opponents try to charge outside their range. They aren't necessary at all though and probably won't be needed as a whole.

I mentioned the two for overwatch above but honestly I may have better use for 30 points. Guess it wont break you to do so. For the record I also think regular flamers are over costed. I would like to see flamers go down to 5 points and warp flamers to 8.

Yeah, that sounds fair. I don't know why they made standard flamers that much. Auto hits aren't that powerful on a short ranged weapon with variable shots.

The only time I have ever been glad I took flamers was when I was playing an elder player who took 2 flyers. Alitoc, with normal -1 to hit, I was not ammused. But neither was he when I dropped a squad of 10 rubrics out of a rhino and 3 of then had flamers.

Still in retrospect wasn't worth it. Inferno bolter are awsome and soul reapers are awesome if a bit expensive. Most I would take now is 1 per 10 man just for overwatch cover.

Azuza001 wrote:
The only time I have ever been glad I took flamers was when I was playing an elder player who took 2 flyers. Alitoc, with normal -1 to hit, I was not ammused. But neither was he when I dropped a squad of 10 rubrics out of a rhino and 3 of then had flamers.

Still in retrospect wasn't worth it. Inferno bolter are awsome and soul reapers are awesome if a bit expensive. Most I would take now is 1 per 10 man just for overwatch cover.

How the heck did you get a rhino with in 8 inchs of a elder flyer and those must have been epic rolls to kill it due to Str 4 on the flamers. Not saying it is not possible (perhaps it is not, I don't play elder) but the stars needed to align here.


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Table wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Warp Flamers are a good 1 or 2 of. They're excellent I'm Overwatch and would make certain opponents try to charge outside their range. They aren't necessary at all though and probably won't be needed as a whole.

I mentioned the two for overwatch above but honestly I may have better use for 30 points. Guess it wont break you to do so. For the record I also think regular flamers are over costed. I would like to see flamers go down to 5 points and warp flamers to 8.

Yeah, that sounds fair. I don't know why they made standard flamers that much. Auto hits aren't that powerful on a short ranged weapon with variable shots.

Im not sure I would even take them at 8 points to be honest. Mostly due to range. Its not a warp flamer problem but a flamer problem as a whole. If you happen to get within 8 inchs then you are in charge range of what you are shooting at which will charge you if they survive. And should they survive the overwatch when charging then you have a expensive elite infantry unit now locked into close combat and not suited for it.

And seeing as I tend to screen my rubrics I dont really get charged so overwatch is questionable. The most I would do is a 5 man - 4 warpflamer MSU. OR.... you could but 10 in a Land Raider. I may try that