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 Jidmah wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Here’s an easy way out. Don’t play against idiots. Play with your friends. It’s a game.

If you define friendship through nothing but war-gaming, that's and easy - though sad - way out, yes.

Saying that you should only play games with your friends is not equivalent to saying that your only friends are people you play games with.

What Scott said. I don’t wargame with the vast majority of my friends. Multiple circles is key. I could even be friends with someone who played 40k in a totally competitive spammy way. I just wouldn’t play them. Still be friends. I don’t have to sink to the lowest common denominator.

Andykp wrote:


Here’s an easy way out. Don’t play against idiots. Play with your friends. It’s a game.

I don't really understand this argument, Friends or not, if they happen to have a much list you will suffer, and friends or not they are not going to buy another bad army just to play against your army. Friends got me in to the game, and now all I wait for is some leaks when my army gets updated. And I don't even play two months, no idea what people feel who are playing list that are bad for 2-3 years. It has to be horrible. You never win, no one wants to play against you, because it is not fun. You can go to events or tournaments, and you end up at the very bottom,but you have zero chance for any sort of prize. So your practiclly paying for other people to get prizes and have even more fun with their lists.

If you define friendship through nothing but war-gaming, that's and easy - though sad - way out, yes.

And what if someone doesn't have friends?

Andykp wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

RedGriefer wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedGriefer wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
What if you don't have a friendly group of like minded people available?

Drop 40k ,sell all your minis?

Now I still play 40k but I actually prefer the 30k community since I've found that their community is generally driven towards more friendly and narrative games as well as highly encouraging fully painted armies. See if there's a 30k community around you. I know on the East Coast of the US and in the Texas area there's a good amount of 30k players.

But in general, it's not the game system that is at fault, it's the community, if the community was better the rule of three should never need to exist. Playing a game of Warhammer, or any tabletop game for that matter, is an unspoken social contract where I spend a couple hours of my valuable time to play an opponent in which the goal should be to have fun. Expanding on that topic though is a discussion for a different thread.

If the 40k community around you isn't friendly and like minded, try your best to create one.

If you had to choose between uninviting two friends from games and applying the rule of three, which one would you pick?

I'd tell them to cut it out or I won't play them, the rule of 3 makes no difference. I'm not going to spend time deploying just to spend the next hour picking them back up again because they couldn't be bothered to bring a list to actually enjoy the game. I don't think 40k should be played competitively, if you push the game system to the extremes like that it will break down.

That was not an option to chose from.
There are people that think 40k should be played competitively and they will always try to push the game system to extremes, while denying that they do and claim that they are just playing fluffy lists.
If you invite all your friends to campaign day, you either tell those people not to come, or you apply the rule of 3 to force them to not spam 2k points of PBC, allowing everyone to play.
No. Easy. Way. Out.

Here’s an easy way out. Don’t play against idiots. Play with your friends. It’s a game.

Don't play against idiots?...damn...that's 90% of the GW fanbase

cant believe there is still guys who likes to play with 7 flyrants or 9 PBC... oh well maybe those are the ones who played those lists and now upset cause they cant... well you have ebay, sell 4 flyrant and buy something different for your tyr and stop ranting.
The rule of 3 will never be reverted so peace for your great fun spamming lists, enjoy or change game, no one will miss heavy spammers

 LunarSol wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
4 squads of 6 tankbustas = gamey and spam
3 squads of 8 tankbustas = fuffy and diverse

Uhuh, sure, right. Nor does it change that I'm still taking max KMKs if I want to be competitive.

I'll do you one better.

3 squads of 12 Tank Bustaz is more akin to fluff, but heavy forbid you have 3 squads of 10 and a squad of 6! That's soooooo unfluffy and against the spirit of the game!

Is anyone arguing Rule of 3 is a fluff rule? It seems pretty obviously a crunch one. As a crunch rule, in a game that in almost every way rewards min unit sizes over max, I'd say yeah, its very much worthwhile to make players take larger units if they want more of something rather than take more individual units and all the mechanical benefits that entails.

Uh yeah there were peoaple arguing that actually in this very thread.

Also the difference between the squad of 10 and the squad of 12 is pretty negligible so...

Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh. Lots of meiserable sounding folks on here. Sad really.

 blackmage wrote:
cant believe there is still guys who likes to play with 7 flyrants or 9 PBC... oh well maybe those are the ones who played those lists and now upset cause they cant... well you have ebay, sell 4 flyrant and buy something different for your tyr and stop ranting.
The rule of 3 will never be reverted so peace for your great fun spamming lists, enjoy or change game, no one will miss heavy spammers

But...that means they might have to actually use more that 2 braincells for list building...

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Here’s an easy way out. Don’t play against idiots. Play with your friends. It’s a game.

If you define friendship through nothing but war-gaming, that's and easy - though sad - way out, yes.

Saying that you should only play games with your friends is not equivalent to saying that your only friends are people you play games with.

That's a gross misinterpretation of my post.

I said that friends have other qualities besides playing WH40k the same way you do. If you don't consider people who play war games in a different way you do friends, that is sad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:
And what if someone doesn't have friends?

Go to a GW store and bother the staff until someone shows up? Seems like a proven concept

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh.

You mean the people working at GW who create a badly flawed game that isn't fun for a lot of us? Yeah, I'd like for them to remember that the hobby is supposed to be fun and stop being bad at their job. Imposing the 0-3 limit is one tiny step towards accomplishing this goal.

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh. Lots of meiserable sounding folks on here. Sad really.

To paint you a picture who playing WH40k in my group works:

The host declares that there will be a WH40k day at a certain date, usually a sunday. It's posted to our forum and multiple What's App groups which contain people who are interested.
Everyone who wants to come can come, depending on time to prepare and number of people involved we play one huge, multiple large games or a campaign someone prepared.
People who show up range from former school mates, people we went to college with, family members, (former) co-workers to decent people we met when playing 40k/MtG/P&P/LARP at stores or events. So a mixed bag of people, who all have different views on the game, because very few of them actually are connected by the way they play WH40k.
And now the kicker: People change. The guy who bought an eldar army in 5th because he liked the look of their hover tanks and was really fun to play at that time turned into a WAAC TFG when he started getting two digit win streaks in 6th and 7th now is salty every game because he no longer has any I-WIN buttons to press and actually is regularly losing games again.

Either you enforce the rule of 3 or people will get matched up against people who simply have a different perception of what's ok to field in a friendly game.
The other option is to tell two or three actual friends that they are not invited, while everyone else is.

 Jidmah wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh. Lots of meiserable sounding folks on here. Sad really.

To paint you a picture who playing WH40k in my group works:

The host declares that there will be a WH40k day at a certain date, usually a sunday. It's posted to our forum and multiple What's App groups which contain people who are interested.
Everyone who wants to come can come, depending on time to prepare and number of people involved we play one huge, multiple large games or a campaign someone prepared.
People who show up range from former school mates, people we went to college with, family members, (former) co-workers to decent people we met when playing 40k/MtG/P&P/LARP at stores or events. So a mixed bag of people, who all have different views on the game, because very few of them actually are connected by the way they play WH40k.
And now the kicker: People change. The guy who bought an eldar army in 5th because he liked the look of their hover tanks and was really fun to play at that time turned into a WAAC TFG when he started getting two digit win streaks in 6th and 7th now is salty every game because he no longer has any I-WIN buttons to press and actually is regularly losing games again.

Either you enforce the rule of 3 or people will get matched up against people who simply have a different perception of what's ok to field in a friendly game.
The other option is to tell two or three actual friends that they are not invited, while everyone else is.

"Hey, I know the rule of 3 exists, but I'd like to take 4 units of Tankbustas rather than 3. Is that okay?"
Answer 1: "Sure, knock yourself out."
Answer 2: "I'd rather you didn't."
=Play the game with or without 4 units.

This is a rule for tournaments. The idea that it breaks flufflists in garagehammer is just weird.

 Jidmah wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh. Lots of meiserable sounding folks on here. Sad really.

To paint you a picture who playing WH40k in my group works:

The host declares that there will be a WH40k day at a certain date, usually a sunday. It's posted to our forum and multiple What's App groups which contain people who are interested.
Everyone who wants to come can come, depending on time to prepare and number of people involved we play one huge, multiple large games or a campaign someone prepared.
People who show up range from former school mates, people we went to college with, family members, (former) co-workers to decent people we met when playing 40k/MtG/P&P/LARP at stores or events. So a mixed bag of people, who all have different views on the game, because very few of them actually are connected by the way they play WH40k.
And now the kicker: People change. The guy who bought an eldar army in 5th because he liked the look of their hover tanks and was really fun to play at that time turned into a WAAC TFG when he started getting two digit win streaks in 6th and 7th now is salty every game because he no longer has any I-WIN buttons to press and actually is regularly losing games again.

Either you enforce the rule of 3 or people will get matched up against people who simply have a different perception of what's ok to field in a friendly game.
The other option is to tell two or three actual friends that they are not invited, while everyone else is.

Why not just tell the problem players to knock it off and let everyone else do whatever they want?

Because that's not how real life works.

 Jidmah wrote:
Because that's not how real life works.

It really is. Just talk to them and tell them that they're doing something that the rest of the group doesn't like.

ValentineGames wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
cant believe there is still guys who likes to play with 7 flyrants or 9 PBC... oh well maybe those are the ones who played those lists and now upset cause they cant... well you have ebay, sell 4 flyrant and buy something different for your tyr and stop ranting.
The rule of 3 will never be reverted so peace for your great fun spamming lists, enjoy or change game, no one will miss heavy spammers

But...that means they might have to actually use more that 2 braincells for list building...

well if they dont have more than 2 braincells working i suppose they have other urgent priorities than play wh40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh. Lots of meiserable sounding folks on here. Sad really.

To paint you a picture who playing WH40k in my group works:

The host declares that there will be a WH40k day at a certain date, usually a sunday. It's posted to our forum and multiple What's App groups which contain people who are interested.
Everyone who wants to come can come, depending on time to prepare and number of people involved we play one huge, multiple large games or a campaign someone prepared.
People who show up range from former school mates, people we went to college with, family members, (former) co-workers to decent people we met when playing 40k/MtG/P&P/LARP at stores or events. So a mixed bag of people, who all have different views on the game, because very few of them actually are connected by the way they play WH40k.
And now the kicker: People change. The guy who bought an eldar army in 5th because he liked the look of their hover tanks and was really fun to play at that time turned into a WAAC TFG when he started getting two digit win streaks in 6th and 7th now is salty every game because he no longer has any I-WIN buttons to press and actually is regularly losing games again.

Either you enforce the rule of 3 or people will get matched up against people who simply have a different perception of what's ok to field in a friendly game.
The other option is to tell two or three actual friends that they are not invited, while everyone else is.

"Hey, I know the rule of 3 exists, but I'd like to take 4 units of Tankbustas rather than 3. Is that okay?"
Answer 1: "Sure, knock yourself out."
Answer 2: "I'd rather you didn't."
=Play the game with or without 4 units.

This is a rule for tournaments. The idea that it breaks flufflists in garagehammer is just weird.

in garagehammer i dont think someone bother about rule of 3, if they do change your play group, the rule of 3 is clearly for tournament only, for casual games why bother about rule of 3?

I'd love to know what happens to these extremely talented gamers who take 4 units of 6 tankbustas "in a super themed list" if they don't fight any tanks.....

ValentineGames wrote:
I'd love to know what happens to these extremely talented gamers who take 4 units of 6 tankbustas "in a super themed list" if they don't fight any tanks.....

High toughness skew lists are just something you have to be prepared for, same as horde armies.

24 tankbustas isn't exactly a massive points investment.

Seems rather daft in your average 1500pts game...

Daft compared to what? You have to be prepared for lists that are mostly chaff and for lists that are mostly high toughness and/or high save.

Rule of three hasn't done anything to remove skew lists from the game.

well they removed 7 flyrants 15 oblys and 9 pbc for example that's enough for me.

 blackmage wrote:
for casual games why bother about rule of 3?

Because it's the standard game now, and it's a good rule.

 Peregrine wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
for casual games why bother about rule of 3?

Because it's the standard game now, and it's a good rule.

Maybe for you but for everyone. Trying to think and don’t think any army I’ve built and painted recently has 3 let alone more than 3 of the same units in them. Maybe my guard who have 3 commissars and 3 units of Russ tanks. No other army’s. Think it’s a bit boring to have too many of the same thing.

yes i was answering to someone talking about "garagehammer", im absolutely fine with rule of 3 is the best rule fix they did.

 Peregrine wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh.

You mean the people working at GW who create a badly flawed game that isn't fun for a lot of us? Yeah, I'd like for them to remember that the hobby is supposed to be fun and stop being bad at their job. Imposing the 0-3 limit is one tiny step towards accomplishing this goal.

No it isn't, because implementing that rule doesn't make you take any of a bad unit.

 Peregrine wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh.

You mean the people working at GW who create a badly flawed game that isn't fun for a lot of us? Yeah, I'd like for them to remember that the hobby is supposed to be fun and stop being bad at their job. Imposing the 0-3 limit is one tiny step towards accomplishing this goal.

Why isn’t it fun for u? What are the flaws that are stopping us having fun?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh.

You mean the people working at GW who create a badly flawed game that isn't fun for a lot of us? Yeah, I'd like for them to remember that the hobby is supposed to be fun and stop being bad at their job. Imposing the 0-3 limit is one tiny step towards accomplishing this goal.

No it isn't, because implementing that rule doesn't make you take any of a bad unit.

Thanks to soup, sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:
yes i was answering to someone talking about "garagehammer", im absolutely fine with rule of 3 is the best rule fix they did.

It wasn't a rule fix. It was a rule implementation. Rules fixes have to fix things, which it didn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh. Lots of meiserable sounding folks on here. Sad really.

To paint you a picture who playing WH40k in my group works:

The host declares that there will be a WH40k day at a certain date, usually a sunday. It's posted to our forum and multiple What's App groups which contain people who are interested.
Everyone who wants to come can come, depending on time to prepare and number of people involved we play one huge, multiple large games or a campaign someone prepared.
People who show up range from former school mates, people we went to college with, family members, (former) co-workers to decent people we met when playing 40k/MtG/P&P/LARP at stores or events. So a mixed bag of people, who all have different views on the game, because very few of them actually are connected by the way they play WH40k.
And now the kicker: People change. The guy who bought an eldar army in 5th because he liked the look of their hover tanks and was really fun to play at that time turned into a WAAC TFG when he started getting two digit win streaks in 6th and 7th now is salty every game because he no longer has any I-WIN buttons to press and actually is regularly losing games again.

Either you enforce the rule of 3 or people will get matched up against people who simply have a different perception of what's ok to field in a friendly game.
The other option is to tell two or three actual friends that they are not invited, while everyone else is.

"Hey, I know the rule of 3 exists, but I'd like to take 4 units of Tankbustas rather than 3. Is that okay?"
Answer 1: "Sure, knock yourself out."
Answer 2: "I'd rather you didn't."
=Play the game with or without 4 units.

This is a rule for tournaments. The idea that it breaks flufflists in garagehammer is just weird.

For the record, it's an awful tournament rule that manages to do more harm than good.

 Jidmah wrote:


Go to a GW store and bother the staff until someone shows up? Seems like a proven concept

there is one GW store in Poland and its 360km+ away from where I live. Am not going to do a 8hour trip and then another 8hour back to get there. Plus from what people been saying around the polish forums, you can't play normal games at GW stores, only demo games.

Why isn’t it fun for u? What are the flaws that are stopping us having fun?

When I run my 15 termintors as paladins run as 5 units of 3, I still had units around to do something on turn 3-4. When I run a 5 or 10 man paladin squads, I have no units doing anything serious by the end of turn 2. Makes the game really unfun, because if I don't go first or my opponent deploys really far away, I do nothing on turn one, not much on turn two, and if I lose all my paladins at the end of that round, I more or less did nothing the whole game, and wasted 30-40 min of my and my opponents time.

ERJAK wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh.

You mean the people working at GW who create a badly flawed game that isn't fun for a lot of us? Yeah, I'd like for them to remember that the hobby is supposed to be fun and stop being bad at their job. Imposing the 0-3 limit is one tiny step towards accomplishing this goal.

No it isn't, because implementing that rule doesn't make you take any of a bad unit.

Thanks to soup, sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:
yes i was answering to someone talking about "garagehammer", im absolutely fine with rule of 3 is the best rule fix they did.

It wasn't a rule fix. It was a rule implementation. Rules fixes have to fix things, which it didn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of people have forgotten that this hobby is meant to be fun. Socialable and a laugh. Lots of meiserable sounding folks on here. Sad really.

To paint you a picture who playing WH40k in my group works:

The host declares that there will be a WH40k day at a certain date, usually a sunday. It's posted to our forum and multiple What's App groups which contain people who are interested.
Everyone who wants to come can come, depending on time to prepare and number of people involved we play one huge, multiple large games or a campaign someone prepared.
People who show up range from former school mates, people we went to college with, family members, (former) co-workers to decent people we met when playing 40k/MtG/P&P/LARP at stores or events. So a mixed bag of people, who all have different views on the game, because very few of them actually are connected by the way they play WH40k.
And now the kicker: People change. The guy who bought an eldar army in 5th because he liked the look of their hover tanks and was really fun to play at that time turned into a WAAC TFG when he started getting two digit win streaks in 6th and 7th now is salty every game because he no longer has any I-WIN buttons to press and actually is regularly losing games again.

Either you enforce the rule of 3 or people will get matched up against people who simply have a different perception of what's ok to field in a friendly game.
The other option is to tell two or three actual friends that they are not invited, while everyone else is.

"Hey, I know the rule of 3 exists, but I'd like to take 4 units of Tankbustas rather than 3. Is that okay?"
Answer 1: "Sure, knock yourself out."
Answer 2: "I'd rather you didn't."
=Play the game with or without 4 units.

This is a rule for tournaments. The idea that it breaks flufflists in garagehammer is just weird.

For the record, it's an awful tournament rule that manages to do more harm than good.

No, not "thanks to soup".

Limiting me to three Predators doesn't suddenly make me want to take Devastators for Lascannons, and limiting me to three squads of Assault Terminators doesn't make me bring Tactical Terminators.

Bad units are bad units regardless of how many you can bring, and good units are good units regardless of how many you can bring.

Andykp wrote:
Why isn’t it fun for u? What are the flaws that are stopping us having fun?

Over-homogenization, rules that are still a bloated mess despite having the tactical depth of a puddle, complete destruction of the idea of faction identity in favor of spam and soup, continued poor balance (as demonstrated by the existence of this thread).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
No it isn't, because implementing that rule doesn't make you take any of a bad unit.

No, but it will make you take a second-tier unit instead of just spamming the single most broken thing you can find. And it will add some variety to your army since it limits your ability to identify the most broken thing available and spam as many copies as you can fit within the point limit. The only problem with the rule is that it doesn't go far enough. The change we need is a return to the 5th edition FOC and single-codex armies, but this is a small step in the right direction.