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Man I wish I were a klutz of that luck level so I could be a regular Domino.

 Peregrine wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Or the fact that you implied that people don't grasp bs excuses for losing, and called it "mental gymnastics for me to say so", and then ignored my response saying that this is psychologically proven human behaviour? lol.

You're turning an observed thing into a nonsense argument. Yes, it's a proven fact that some people will grasp desperately for any answer besides "I lost to a better player", but that doesn't mean that it applies to this situation. If it's about excuses for losing then why are people like me, who have never played against the guy or even heard of him before this cheating incident, supporting a ban? Why hasn't the second-place player, who beat a similar number of people in the process of getting to the top table, received the same jealousy and excuses in the form of cheating accusations and calls for a ban? Why has this one player, out of all of the competitive players and all of the games they have won, been singled out like this?

What? I'm not saying it definitely applies here. I'm saying it's entirely possible he cheated before, but it's also entirely possible he hasn't, and I gave some very plausible reasons that people would say that he had even if he hadn't. But I don't know for a fact, and neither do you, which is exactly why I'm saying we can't take it into account. Citing it as though random unverified claims of cheating for anyone should hold some sort weight in dealing with a game we have video recording of from start to finish, is just a mob justice mentality.


Why was he singled out? Plenty of possibilities. Most people seem to think because of the TERRIBLE reception this tournament recieved, the TO is trying to shift focus a little, and this being the end game match as well as one fully on camera, this is the one people are most likely to care about and get the most attention. You think anyone would care this much if it was some guy at the bottom of the pool, playing some random? This was the finale, against InControl, probably the most famous player this game has outside of someone like Vin Diesel or something. As well as being the final game thus having the most mistake to justify it. This wasn't going to work if they wanted to crucify Geoff, even though he made a similar amount of mistakes, the other guy was the easy scapegoat.

It's irrelevant. The argument "if he didn't cheat than why was he singled out as a cheater by the TO's", isn't a valid response to people pointing out that we don't have evidence of him cheating. The accusation is not evidence in itself.

 Peregrine wrote:


You have two choices:

1) He is such a successful and elite god of 40k that he inspires jealousy beyond anyone else, and everyone is truly out to get him.

or

2) He already had a reputation of being a dirty player, a reputation not shared by other players at the top tables, and so when he was finally caught cheating on camera his excuses were not credible.

I think we both know which is the more plausible explanation here.

That first one is not what I said at all, and is deliberately rewritten to sound as absurd as possible.

Here's the two choices:

1. He does cheat and people are being honest in saying so

2. He doesn't cheat and yet some people who have lost to this guy and are salty about, or looking for some personal validation for their losses, or just dislike the guy, or genuinely saw him doing something similar to this (an irrelevant bump to a model for pete's sake), or any other number of potential reasons, have come forth to validate him as cheating.



How many people even came out so far and said he is known for cheating, wasn't it like one other person afaik? I've seen more than that saying they play against him and that he DOESN'T cheat.


Both seem equally as plausible to me. Even if they weren't, both are most definitely possible, and pretty sketchy to say that its relevant information to a video'd game. If you need to use evidence like this to make a decision - then you don't have enough evidence at all.


This is the flimsiest sort of thing to take into account when trying to determine whether someone cheated or not.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Man I wish I were a klutz of that luck level so I could be a regular Domino.

His response on the matter:

I apparently knock my Hammerhead forwards slightly with my water cup. So, IF this was intentional (which it was not) what has this gained me? I have nothing INFRONT to overwatch? We learned that the Hammerhead can’t overwatch (more on that later) so what does this gain me? His shield captain flew to the left right next to the hammerhead, so what am I cheating here? It baffles me that this is a thing, models get knocked throughout the event but you gotta watch out for those water cups, they are dangerous!


What exactly are you trying to say was the benefit here?

 SHUPPET wrote:

Here's the two choices:

1. He does cheat and people are being honest in saying so

2. He doesn't cheat and yet some people who have lost to this guy and are salty about, or looking for some personal validation for their losses, or just dislike the guy, or genuinely saw him doing something similar to this (an irrelevant bump to a model for pete's sake), or any other number of potential reasons, have come forth to validate him as cheating.

Yeah, an 'irrelevant' bump that was actually a push that moved his model into better cover.

No, you're right, man. It's a total conspiracy made up for no reason at all. Everyone there conspired against him, every opponent and judge and the TO conspired to ensure he lost the game. Because he was -so awesome-. See that cool guy there? Can't have him win. Let's make sure it doesn't happen, boys. Remember, no Russian.

Tell me about the chemtrails makin' the frogs gay.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Here's the two choices:

1. He does cheat and people are being honest in saying so

2. He doesn't cheat and yet some people who have lost to this guy and are salty about, or looking for some personal validation for their losses, or just dislike the guy, or genuinely saw him doing something similar to this (an irrelevant bump to a model for pete's sake), or any other number of potential reasons, have come forth to validate him as cheating.

Yeah, an 'irrelevant' bump that was actually a push that moved his model into better cover.

No, you're right, man. It's a total conspiracy made up for no reason at all. Everyone there conspired against him, every opponent and judge and the TO conspired to ensure he lost the game.

Tell me about the chemtrails makin' the frogs gay.

Yeah, you ask for an explanation to why someone would do something like that, and then when you get one, you play an absurdist role towards me, for giving that explanation of the motivations someone might have in calling some a cheater that isn't.



Have you ever worked as a judge before? I have. If there was multiple judges, I guarantee every single one of them was not consulted here. Either the judge that was witness to this game, or simply just the TO himself running it past someone else involved in organizing the event, is almost assuredly the amount of people whose opinions were taken into account here, in my opinion. However, unlike you I won't state this as a fact - BECAUSE NEITHER OF US KNOW. You are using an invented mass of people, and using their numbers as validation of these accusations being undeniable. Do you actually have any source on the amount of people who claimed he cheated? So far I've seen one statement from one person who made this decision, and one statement from someone else in a comment section say he has a "rep" for it, who for all we know might just be parroting something else he read in some other comment section. If there's info I've missed please let me know, I've read through all the reddit posts, but haven't read this thread in it's entirety, so its entirely possible I missed something, but if not, please stop pretending that you know there's this cabinet of people each who had first hand knowledge of the game and some throng of people who played against him, all coming together to state his guilt. And even if there was, none of it makes him any less or more guilty - you seem to be misunderstanding what verifiable evidence actually is.


False accusations of cheating happen all the time. Avilo just a got an official warning from Blizzard for justifying his losses with cheating accusations. I've seen it happen first hand in tabletop tournaments. And the second it comes out as a possibility, like in a public statement like this, you bet your ass - there'd be someone somewhere saying YOU'VE cheated against them before as well, Dorito. Hell, I'd come out and say it myself, simply because I don't particularly like you and think it would be funny for you to have to deal with this same heat. See how unverifiable that gak is?

 SHUPPET wrote:
I'm out. Some people are frothing at the mouth for this guy to get his comeuppance, and I've said my piece. This argument is pointless, you aren't even making sense anymore, just looking for a quick "gotcha!" with every post to try and say I don't have an argument. You tried. Have a good one.

And yet here you still are, continuing to argue. It's like this whole "you suck, I'm done" dramatic exit was pure theater, and not even particularly well done?

 Peregrine wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I'm out. Some people are frothing at the mouth for this guy to get his comeuppance, and I've said my piece. This argument is pointless, you aren't even making sense anymore, just looking for a quick "gotcha!" with every post to try and say I don't have an argument. You tried. Have a good one.

And yet here you still are, continuing to argue. It's like this whole "you suck, I'm done" dramatic exit was pure theater, and not even particularly well done?

You quote a post from I made BEFORE that statement, literally demanding answers to questions, and then when I answer those questions, you respond like this?

You're not even the guy I said that to, or the argument I was having when I said it. I literally said that to Doritos, because he (and specifically just him) was responding in that argument with stupid "gotcha" lines in every post and blatantly didn't have anything new to add.

Now you're doing the exact same thing? Lol.




You guys are hilarious. The bloodthirst here is real. Can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

 Peregrine wrote:

w1zard wrote:
Also, his "prior history" of cheating is not only unverified hearsay, but completely irrelevant to this case, right here, right now.

Of course it's relevant. Events don't happen in isolation, and when you're asking to give someone the benefit of the doubt it really matters if they're a person with a reputation for fair play and no prior cheating incidents or a person everyone already suspects has cheated previously even if on-camera proof hasn't been available.

It's irrelevant because it is unverifiable... I can have a bad reputation and be completely undeserving of it, and vice versa. Just because there is "talk among local players that he has done this kind of thing before" means absolutely nothing beyond rumor mongering.

It's true that a private event can ban anyone for any reason. I'm saying that in my opinion they don't have a valid reason for banning him for life. I don't even think the video "evidence" being shown is undeniable, irrefutable evidence of intentional cheating. I think the video shows behavior that can be construed as cheating under the right lens, but can be equally ascribed to very loose play.

Did he cheat intentionally? Possibly. Should he be banned for life for the possibility of cheating intentionally? No. Should his "reputation" have any effect on the outcome of this decision? No.

It's fine that they are concerned about some of the behaviors he demonstrated in the final match. But they should have DQed him and docked all of his points instead of banning him for life and putting him on pillory in front of the community. It accomplishes the same thing without stigmatizing him for life for something that very well could have been unintentional.

It's also hilarious that people seem to thing he was the only person there playing like this. I bet you all the money in my bank account that this kind of stuff was happening on almost every table. Why is Mr. Harrison the only one to get a lifetime ban for it?

Post removed

- BrookM

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Yeah, you ask for an explanation to why someone would do something like that, and then when you get one, you play an absurdist role towards me, for giving that explanation of the motivations someone might have in calling some a cheater that isn't.

Oh, it's pretty absurd.

[Almost odd that all of these people conspiring against him managed to get lucky the exact moment he was doing things that look exactly like cheating. It'd be like me accusing you of shoplifting the exact moment you decided you wanted to warm up a Codex under your sweater while you took it outside for fresh air.

Who are all these people? Once again you ignore all but a single sentence in the entire post because you can't answer to stronger logic. So source me these people you keep referring to, if you haven't just made them up entirely. Because nobody has seen any of them yet. So I'm going to make my post about nothing other than this so you can't dodge it anymore if you choose to respond to me.

You're attributing this statement to a made up number of people, and using this made up number as a strength in numbers argument to drive home your point. Feel free to prove me wrong. I'd like to see this information you have, and if you can source this statement of his guilt being made by every judge at the event, plus the TO, plus InControl himself, plus literally every other opponent he had that day, plus confirming for me exactly how many people from outside this event have accused him of cheating. This isn't just some arbitrary list of people I'm having you source. This is all the people you have cited. So please, source your currently empty statements, because as it stands I know of a statement from ONE t.o., and one other guy on Reddit who didn't even witness any cheating himself. It's possible you seen stuff I haven't, so please fill me in, or admit you are just rabid to see this guy go down, lol.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

We're a riot. And normally Peregrine and I loathe one another. That's the funniest part.

Really? You two seem like a match made in heaven to me. I guess similarities are prone to clash.

w1zard wrote:
It's also hilarious that people seem to thing he was the only person there playing like this. I bet you all the money in my bank account that this kind of stuff was happening on almost every table. Why is Mr. Harrison the only one to get a lifetime ban for it?

If anything, people are passionate about this one because we already KNOW it happens on other tables (though not even close to every one). To finally have a tournament take action after NOVA and Adepticon have essentially handwaved away incorrect lists and watching blatant slow play+bad sportsmanship on the top tables at LVO it’s refreshing to see cheating getting dealt with.
It’s not like the guy can’t come back, Kenny Boucher won a tournament with loaded dice, got banned, and is again part of the community through his painting tutorials. Being banned for life might be extreme, but after inaction for years I’d personally rather see an overreaction to blatant, video-taped cheating than doing nothing.

Please keep in mind that Rule Number Two is Stay On Topic. Please keep off-topic references, and therefore tangents, to a minimum. Thanks!

 SHUPPET wrote:

Who are all these people? Once again you ignore all but a single sentence in the entire post because you can't answer to stronger logic. So source me these people you keep referring to, if you haven't just made them up entirely. Because nobody has seen any of them yet. So I'm going to make my post about nothing other than this so you can't dodge it anymore if you choose to respond to me.

They're judges and TO's. Again, who the hell do you think calls this shot- the hobo out back? People he lost to? Do you think some random moron could just say, "He cheated!" and the entire tournament staff just said, "OK!" I don't think you're understanding how this works and you're really grasping at straws.

This statement was released by the people hosting the LGT. I don't know what more you mean.

Look, dude- I'll be 100% honest with you, I'm starting to think this argument is hitting a little too close to home with you. I'm not sure what you're seeing it, you really seem to be downplaying it and handwaving it off when the evidence, on freaking VIDEO, shows it. I'm curious as to what your local meta is like, and I'm pretty sure if this is considered 'okay' in your eyes then it's a toxic situation.

Your argument's 'logic':

"Who are judges, really? And people get falsely accused of cheating, everyone could have just up and conspired against this guy because he was too awesome. I mean, you can't prove that blatant pushing of a model into full cover was intentional."

 SHUPPET wrote:
Really? You two seem like a match made in heaven to me. I guess similarities are prone to clash.

Yeah. We get together and do naked butt stuff on the weekend. You've got to be pretty wrong for me and Peregrine to BOTH call you out on it.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

I bet you all the money in my bank account plenty of other dudes have drugged and raped chicks. Why's Bill Cosby the only one going to jail for it?

Because he got caught.

This isn't that difficult, fellas.

Anyone who intentionally drugs and rapes someone deserves prison time, so we give it to them when we can catch them.

But, I don't think accidentally bumping a model or picking up a wound counter deserves a lifetime ban.

I'm going to be arbitrary here and say that 1/4 to 1/3 of all players at the tournament were playing as "loose" as Mr. Harrison was. I genuinely believe that is about the right amount btw. Do you honestly believe that a third of the entire tournament's attendees should be banned for life for bumping a model, forgetting a rule, or picking up a wound counter whether intentional or not?

Your analogy would be more accurate if a quarter to a third of the adult Male population were rapists, and Bill Cosby was getting an much harsher sentence then "normal" rapist would get, AND also there were still serious doubts as to his innocence/guilt.

(The Bill Cosby case is just the analogy being used, I don't want to get into the facts of that case.)

w1zard wrote:
But, I don't think accidentally bumping a model or picking up a wound counter deserves a lifetime ban.

Neither do I, but let's recap- he didn't 'bump' a model, he blatantly pushed the damned thing into cover.

He didn't 'pick up a wound counter', he changed it from 5 down to 3.

He also lied about trading out his objective cards, made measurements off by 2 inches, and misused 'For the Greater Good' on a tank.

So stop trying to water down what he actually did. He didn't 'bump a model' and 'pick up a wound counter' any more than the Boston Strangler 'hugged a few ladies firmly'.

w1zard wrote:
I'm going to be arbitrary here and say that 1/4 to 1/3 of all players at the tournament were playing as "loose" as Mr. Harrison was. I genuinely believe that is about the right amount btw. Do you honestly believe that a third of the entire tournament's attendees should be banned for life for bumping a model, forgetting a rule, or picking up a wound counter whether intentional or not?

And guess what? None of them got caught. None of them were called out by their opponent. This guy DID, and they reviewed the evidence and found proof of it. I'm gonna say a ton of people commit a ton of crimes, but we don't let the guys we catch slide because "oh well, other people probably do it". This is an outright childish and ignorant position to take.

You're blatantly, flagrantly outright LYING about what he did.

It is quite honestly the most dishonest argument I've seen on Dakka, and I've seen a few doozies.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I will never attend an event by these guys. Getting called out publicly as a cheater for an irrelevant mini bump to model with a glass, and for misremembering a die at the end of a long day, is not worth the drama for me. These TO's should feel ashamed, honestly.

Blatant Cheating. Obvious by watching the video.

I watched didn’t see it, none of The things he was called on could have helped him win... baseless accusations imo.

 Primark G wrote:
I watched didn’t see it, none of The things he was called on could have helped him win... baseless accusations imo.

Then see an optometrist. If you can't tell the difference between an 'accidental bump' and a 'blatant push', stay away from actual respectable players and the tables. You won't last long.

Also, even if he wouldn't have won, that doesn't matter when you cheat. Cheating is cheating, and this is pretty much 100% cheating by all reasonable standards.

FFS. This is why private gaming clubs are a thing.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

And guess what? None of them got caught. None of them were called out by their opponent. This guy DID, and they reviewed the evidence and found proof of it. I'm gonna say a ton of people commit a ton of crimes, but we don't let the guys we catch slide because "oh well, other people probably do it". This is an outright childish and ignorant position to take.

You're blatantly, flagrantly outright LYING about what he did.

It is quite honestly the most dishonest argument I've seen on Dakka, and I've seen a few doozies.

So it's ok for a massive portion on the 40k tournament population to get away with this stuff, but the second someone gets caught for POSSIBLY doing it we have to ban him for life and pillory him as hard as possible to "discourage" others from doing it whilst simultaneously pretending that said massive portion of the playerbase isn't doing the exact same thing. If you can't see why this is unjust then frankly you are beyond help.

If you want to stop cheating at tournaments, catching one guy who may not have even been intentionally cheating and "making an example of him" isn't going to do jack.

So it's ok for a massive portion on the 40k tournament population to get away with this stuff, but the second someone gets caught for POSSIBLY doing it we have to ban him for life and pillory him as hard as possible to "discourage" others from doing it whilst simultaneously pretending that said massive portion of the playerbase isn't doing the exact same thing. If you can't see why this is unjust then frankly you are beyond help.

If you want to stop cheating at tournaments, catching one guy who may not have even been intentionally cheating and "making an example of him" isn't going to do jack.

So we shouldn't have any police then - because clearly if we can't catch every single criminal why bother right?

w1zard wrote:
So it's ok for a massive portion on the 40k tournament population to get away with this stuff, but the second someone gets caught for POSSIBLY doing it we have to ban him for life and pillory him as hard as possible to "discourage" others from doing it whilst simultaneously pretending that said massive portion of the playerbase isn't doing the exact same thing. If you can't see why this is unjust then frankly you are beyond help.

Yes. Shame him. In fact, shame his supporters while we're at it.

 ScarletRose wrote:

So it's ok for a massive portion on the 40k tournament population to get away with this stuff, but the second someone gets caught for POSSIBLY doing it we have to ban him for life and pillory him as hard as possible to "discourage" others from doing it whilst simultaneously pretending that said massive portion of the playerbase isn't doing the exact same thing. If you can't see why this is unjust then frankly you are beyond help.

If you want to stop cheating at tournaments, catching one guy who may not have even been intentionally cheating and "making an example of him" isn't going to do jack.

So we shouldn't have any police then - because clearly if we can't catch every single criminal why bother right?

I don't think a massive portion of the population commits crimes on a regular basis.

You're arguing crime is a-okay so long as you don't get caught.

w1zard wrote:
So it's ok for a massive portion on the 40k tournament population to get away with this stuff, but the second someone gets caught for POSSIBLY doing it we have to ban him for life and pillory him as hard as possible to "discourage" others from doing it whilst simultaneously pretending that said massive portion of the playerbase isn't doing the exact same thing. If you can't see why this is unjust then frankly you are beyond help.

No, it's not ok. Ban the guy in the OP for life, and do the same with the other cheaters. Stop making excuses for cheating.

 Peregrine wrote:

w1zard wrote:
So it's ok for a massive portion on the 40k tournament population to get away with this stuff, but the second someone gets caught for POSSIBLY doing it we have to ban him for life and pillory him as hard as possible to "discourage" others from doing it whilst simultaneously pretending that said massive portion of the playerbase isn't doing the exact same thing. If you can't see why this is unjust then frankly you are beyond help.

No, it's not ok. Ban the guy in the OP for life, and do the same with the other cheaters. Stop making excuses for cheating.

So you would be fine with life-banning a quarter to a third of the entire tournament attendees then? Again, it's an arbitrary number but I genuinely think it's accurate.

w1zard wrote:
So you would be fine with life banning a quarter to a third of the entire tournament attendees then? Again, it's an arbitrary number but I genuinely think it's accurate.

Every damned one of them as soon as you have evidence.

But then again, you're pulling that number out of your ass to justify one scumbag's cheating. It's not like you have an actual point.

 greyknight12 wrote:
If anything, people are passionate about this one because we already KNOW it happens on other tables (though not even close to every one). To finally have a tournament take action after NOVA and Adepticon have essentially handwaved away incorrect lists and watching blatant slow play+bad sportsmanship on the top tables at LVO it’s refreshing to see cheating getting dealt with.

Exactly. And it's frustrating that, when an event finally takes the proper action against a cheater, we get all kinds of excuses for how it's not really cheating and how even if it is cheating it's not fair to punish this one person for it.

 Primark G wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I will never attend an event by these guys. Getting called out publicly as a cheater for an irrelevant mini bump to model with a glass, and for misremembering a die at the end of a long day, is not worth the drama for me. These TO's should feel ashamed, honestly.

Blatant Cheating. Obvious by watching the video.

I watched didn’t see it, none of The things he was called on could have helped him win... baseless accusations imo.

Soooooo it's okay to cheat as long as they don't win? I don't get it.

w1zard wrote:
So you would be fine with life-banning a quarter to a third of the entire tournament attendees then? Again, it's an arbitrary number but I genuinely think it's accurate.

If a third of tournament attendees are confirmed to be cheating, then yes. They are TFG s whose presence will not be missed. Ban every one of them and let them sit in the hotel crying about how they blew $1000 on travel expenses and got DQed.

w1zard wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

w1zard wrote:
So it's ok for a massive portion on the 40k tournament population to get away with this stuff, but the second someone gets caught for POSSIBLY doing it we have to ban him for life and pillory him as hard as possible to "discourage" others from doing it whilst simultaneously pretending that said massive portion of the playerbase isn't doing the exact same thing. If you can't see why this is unjust then frankly you are beyond help.

No, it's not ok. Ban the guy in the OP for life, and do the same with the other cheaters. Stop making excuses for cheating.

So you would be fine with life-banning a quarter to a third of the entire tournament attendees then? Again, it's an arbitrary number but I genuinely think it's accurate.

Uuuuuh if they're caught cheating absolutely.

w1zard wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:

So it's ok for a massive portion on the 40k tournament population to get away with this stuff, but the second someone gets caught for POSSIBLY doing it we have to ban him for life and pillory him as hard as possible to "discourage" others from doing it whilst simultaneously pretending that said massive portion of the playerbase isn't doing the exact same thing. If you can't see why this is unjust then frankly you are beyond help.

If you want to stop cheating at tournaments, catching one guy who may not have even been intentionally cheating and "making an example of him" isn't going to do jack.

So we shouldn't have any police then - because clearly if we can't catch every single criminal why bother right?

I don't think a massive portion of the population commits crimes on a regular basis.

You're arguing crime is a-okay so long as you don't get caught.

No, I'm extrapolating your point to it's logical conclusion - if we shouldn't ban a cheater because 'tons of other people do it and don't get caught' that's where we end up.

 Peregrine wrote:
If a third of tournament attendees are confirmed to be cheating, then yes. They are TFG s whose presence will not be missed. Ban every one of them and let them sit in the hotel crying about how they blew $1000 on travel expenses and got DQed.

And post their pictures so everyone can point and laugh at them when they walk into the FLGS.

Matter of fact, ban them from the FLGS, too. I know the one I part-time at will give you ONE warning for deliberate cheating, and then after that if you're caught- you're banned from playing there.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

w1zard wrote:
So you would be fine with life banning a quarter to a third of the entire tournament attendees then? Again, it's an arbitrary number but I genuinely think it's accurate.

Every damned one of them as soon as you have evidence.

But then again, you're pulling that number out of your ass to justify one scumbag's cheating. It's not like you have an actual point.

Right. Glad to see where you stand.

For what it's worth, I still don't think those videos proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he cheated intentionally. I also don't think you realize that in your eagerness to punish "cheaters" and deal with "loose play" harshly (which according to you is almost as bad as cheating), you are basically saying a good chunk of the 40k community at large should be banned for life from competitive play.

Like I've said in all of my previous posts. For maximum effectiveness in punishing cheaters, you have to CATCH ALL OF THEM and punish them moderately (DQ them, lifetime bans only in cases of repeated cheating). Show everyone that cheating in a 40k game WILL get you caught, and DQed.

Giving a grossly disproportionate punishment to someone who may or may not have cheated in the hope that the community will stop doing something that has been tacitly accepted (both "loose" play and outright cheating) since the inception of competitive 40k is a losing prospect. It is also unjust to the "examples" who in the best case have been punished harshly for something a lot of people do on the regular, or in the worst case are totally innocent of intentional wrongdoing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ScarletRose wrote:


No, I'm extrapolating your point to it's logical conclusion - if we shouldn't ban a cheater because 'tons of other people do it and don't get caught' that's where we end up.

No, I'm saying rules should be enforced, but when massive amounts of people are breaking them and your only response is to catch a fraction of them and disproportionately punish them in a fruitless effort to stop others from doing it, that it is unjust.