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 Nurglitch wrote:
Exactly. I'm hoping for a world in which the guy showing up with the sexist miniatures at the local gaming shop is treated just like the guy that loses his temper when confronted by someone he doesn't like, and is unwelcome in the shop or club. Much like how people sporting Nazi symbology on their miniatures currently are.

That's the problem. You're calling it 'sexist'. It's sexist to you. That doesn't make it universal. That doesn't mean everyone feels the same way. How about this- embrace this insane concept:

Maybe we should leave it to the individuals interacting with one another to work out what they're comfortable with on the table, provided it falls within what the shop owner determines is acceptable.

I know, it's crazy- asking adults to be adults and be amicable, both of them having different preferences and all. But hear me out here- and it's going to get crazy, so buckle up for a wild ride:

Women have always been gaming. There have always been models like this. People have always managed to work out what they'll tolerate in their own groups. None of this is brand new, I promise.

I just don't want someone's idea of sexism to get on that slippery slope. And again, as I said, sexist to you. Maybe your line is bare breasts. Maybe the next person is a little more unhinged and doesn't like a bare midriff. Maybe someone else doesn't like tight-fitting or any revealing clothing at all.

Because, Nurglitch- I'll be frank with you. I have absolutely no desire to deal with any more damned pearl-clutching puritans in the hobby, and much of the feminist rhetoric is hardly distinguishable from the moral panics from the pulpit.

Can't deal with someone's models? Talk to them, or the shop owner. If neither of them see it your way, then perhaps you need to find another place that's more suited to your preferences.

Be. An. Adult.

I posted a link to the Wikipedia page on sexism. It's a good place to start learning about the subject.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
Exactly. I'm hoping for a world in which the guy showing up with the sexist miniatures at the local gaming shop is treated just like the guy that loses his temper when confronted by someone he doesn't like, and is unwelcome in the shop or club. Much like how people sporting Nazi symbology on their miniatures currently are.

That's the problem. You're calling it 'sexist'. It's sexist to you. That doesn't make it universal. That doesn't mean everyone feels the same way. How about this- embrace this insane concept:

Maybe we should leave it to the individuals interacting with one another to work out what they're comfortable with on the table, provided it falls within what the shop owner determines is acceptable.

I know, it's crazy- asking adults to be adults and be amicable, both of them having different preferences and all. But hear me out here- and it's going to get crazy, so buckle up for a wild ride:

Women have always been gaming. There have always been models like this. People have always managed to work out what they'll tolerate in their own groups. None of this is brand new, I promise.

I just don't want someone's idea of sexism to get on that slippery slope. And again, as I said, sexist to you. Maybe your line is bare breasts. Maybe the next person is a little more unhinged and doesn't like a bare midriff. Maybe someone else doesn't like tight-fitting or any revealing clothing at all.

Because, Nurglitch- I'll be frank with you. I have absolutely no desire to deal with any more damned pearl-clutching puritans in the hobby, and much of the feminist rhetoric is hardly distinguishable from the moral panics from the pulpit.

Can't deal with someone's models? Talk to them, or the shop owner. If neither of them see it your way, then perhaps you need to find another place that's more suited to your preferences.

Be. An. Adult.

That's why I posted the Wikipedia page on sexism so that you can learn how to objectively identify sexism. Because I've been gaming for 25 years and I'm also tired inconsiderate, entitled, emotionally fragile boys actingtheir appalling behaviour is somehow valid in public.

Why is that article in wikipedia is considered objective?

She's like the WBC, if people would just ignore her, she would go away. She craves money, and she gets a lot of it from her support base.

It's like a troll, the more you bitch at her or about her, the more she benefits. Just ignore her, and she will leave and find some other group to mess with.

That being said, the above argument about boobies on models being sexist is fething hilarious to read. It is almost as if america is heading back into the age of super conservative ideals regarding sex and sexuality.

Having Boobie models isn't sexist.

https://www.complex.com/life/2016/05/louisiana-politician-law-stripper-weight.

^ That, is sexism.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
That's the problem. You're calling it 'sexist'. It's sexist to you. That doesn't make it universal. That doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.

Because there can't be objective measures of sexism? Man, what an "insane concept." Lul. I hate to take on the phrasing of the right, but, here goes:

"Sorry snowflake, your feelings don't matter. Objective facts matter."

So often people parrot this idea of, "If we start making rules, it'll ruin everything because then more rules might get made!" Except they only tend to apply it to certain things that they dislike, selective readings and selective offense. That's all this is.

 Nurglitch wrote:
That's why I posted the Wikipedia page on sexism so that you can learn how to objectively identify sexism. Because I've been gaming for 25 years and I'm also tired inconsiderate, entitled, emotionally fragile boys actingtheir appalling behaviour is somehow valid in public.

And that is on the store owner to determine, if you mean the FLGS is 'public' (it's really not, because it's not funded by taxpayers and it's still property of someone). If your store owner determines bare breasts to be inappropriate, you can scream and jump up and down and call it sexist all you want... but don't be shocked if your tantrum is relocated to the street outside while everyone ignores you.

Works both ways, though. I'm not going to flop a giant purple rubber penis on the table with arms and boobs green stuff'd to it and call it my Slaaneshi daemon and expect everyone to just accept it, and if I want to throw a tantrum about it- well, I can jump up and down in the street with my big rubber purple penis waggling about as I have a hissy fit.

You can say, "Go learn" all you want, but clearly there's a line with it that you are either afraid to acknowledge or wish to move the goalposts for.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
Because there can't be objective measures of sexism? Man, what an "insane concept." Lul.

I'm not sure where you misunderstood- I was making it clear that many people may have varying measures of what is 'sexist' to them. I don't think there's a solid, bold, black and white objective sexism short of 'actively discriminating against someone based on their gender'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:
That being said, the above argument about boobies on models being sexist is fething hilarious to read. It is almost as if america is heading back into the age of super conservative ideals regarding sex and sexuality.

As someone who was raised in this sort of nightmarish theocratic hellscape of Puritanical views- women who showed flesh above the elbow, knees, and below the collarbone were 'whores'. Crazy church-wives ripped lingerie sections out of the JCPenney catalogue so their sons wouldn't find it and masturbate. Couples weren't allowed to date without a chaperone until they were 18 and living on their own. Jewelry, tight-fitting clothing, even freaking JEANS were considered inappropriate. Any sort of cartoon with a woman that had breasts was 'perversion'.

Yeah, I'm sorry- my family gave that kind of insane cult the middle finger back in the early 1990's. I'll be damned if someone thinks I'll trade Moral Authoritarians for Jesus out for Moral Authoritarians for Feminism.

Same nonsense, just different words.

 Formosa wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Disciple swings, he misses, he proves Formosa correct again and the crowd goes miiiiiild

feminism
ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

EQUALITY OF THE SEXES, or are you gonna say the Oxford English Dictionary is wrong eh?

equality
ɪˈkwɒlɪti,iːˈkwɒlɪti/Submit
noun
1.
the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities.

So that’s making both sexes equal, not men above woman’s and not woman’s above men, therefore by its very difintion feminism should promote men’s rights equally as it promotes woman’s, so again by its very definition.... disciple is not a feminist hahah

You do realize that women have a longer way to go to equality right? This is like showing up to a Black Lives Matter rally and saying "I agree, but don't All Lives Matter?". You're missing the point by quoting a dictionary. It even says right there "the advocacy of WOMEN'S rights on the ground of the equality"

Haha I knew you would try to argue with the LITERAL meaning of femisim, you continue to prove me right every time you open your mouth, you don’t even know the meaning of the thing you are professing to support.


Wanna hear a secret though .... lean closer .... I live with a feminist lesbian couple, they are in their late 50’s and easily the best people I’ve ever known, I known what a real feminist is from them, from their stories, they had a real fight, real issues to push against, being gay in Northern Ireland in the troubles is likely the biggest issue they faced... they are fething heroes and modern day “feminists” are pathetic shadows of these great pioneers, they are god damn inspirations!

And that is why I mock you, your not a feminist, your a bored man trying to look good in you’re peir group, you’ve likely never fought... really fought for anything in your life.

Yes I’m being harsh, but at least I’m being honest.

Really, first you go "are you going to say the Oxford English dictionary is wrong" and then you move to "the LITERAL meaning". Like you weren't just the guy using an actual dictionary and trying to claim it backed you up? I mean just wow, I have seen quite some dishonesty on Dakka, but this immediate and all too obvious pivot is really something.
But good for your anacdotal evidence I guess, I live with a feminist too so I guess that's that.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
That's why I posted the Wikipedia page on sexism so that you can learn how to objectively identify sexism. Because I've been gaming for 25 years and I'm also tired inconsiderate, entitled, emotionally fragile boys actingtheir appalling behaviour is somehow valid in public.

And that is on the store owner to determine, if you mean the FLGS is 'public' (it's really not, because it's not funded by taxpayers and it's still property of someone). If your store owner determines bare breasts to be inappropriate, you can scream and jump up and down and call it sexist all you want... but don't be shocked if your tantrum is relocated to the street outside while everyone ignores you.

Works both ways, though. I'm not going to flop a giant purple rubber penis on the table with arms and boobs green stuff'd to it and call it my Slaaneshi daemon and expect everyone to just accept it, and if I want to throw a tantrum about it- well, I can jump up and down in the street with my big rubber purple penis waggling about as I have a hissy fit.

You can say, "Go learn" all you want, but clearly there's a line with it that you are either afraid to acknowledge or wish to move the goalposts for.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
Because there can't be objective measures of sexism? Man, what an "insane concept." Lul.

I'm not sure where you misunderstood- I was making it clear that many people may have varying measures of what is 'sexist' to them. I don't think there's a solid, bold, black and white objective sexism short of 'actively discriminating against someone based on their gender'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:
That being said, the above argument about boobies on models being sexist is fething hilarious to read. It is almost as if america is heading back into the age of super conservative ideals regarding sex and sexuality.

As someone who was raised in this sort of nightmarish theocratic hellscape of Puritanical views- women who showed flesh above the elbow, knees, and below the collarbone were 'whores'. Crazy church-wives ripped lingerie sections out of the JCPenney catalogue so their sons wouldn't find it and masturbate. Couples weren't allowed to date without a chaperone until they were 18 and living on their own. Jewelry, tight-fitting clothing, even freaking JEANS were considered inappropriate. Any sort of cartoon with a woman that had breasts was 'perversion'.

Yeah, I'm sorry- my family gave that kind of insane cult the middle finger back in the early 1990's. I'll be damned if someone thinks I'll trade Moral Authoritarians for Jesus out for Moral Authoritarians for Feminism.

Same nonsense, just different words.

I too was raised in such an environment for a few years, until my parents decided it was a detriment.

Showing skin, male or female is natural. Trying to hide it away under cloth is only going to make the problem worse in the long run. Remember what happened with Milo Manera and the Spiderman Cover a few years back?

"Sexism: prejudicial attitudes and discrimination against women on the basis of their sex. Sexism ranges from the individual to the institutional level and includes (a) beliefs, (b) behaviors, (c) use of language and (d) policies reflecting and conveying a pervasive view that women are inferior."
-- Linguist Phil Herbst

The usual, sexist response to this is Nigel Tufnel's "What's wrong with being sexy?" The answer, I think, is comparing On Our Backs to Playboy since they're both porn. Playboy pictorials depict women as being displayed for the viewer, and what are particular kind of male viewer wants to see (Penthouse picked up the slack in that department...). On Our Backs pictorials depicted lesbian couples as they wanted their relationship and sexuality to be seen.

Maybe a military analogy would help. There's overt 'shock and awe' sexism and there's 'british east india' sexism.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
That's the problem. You're calling it 'sexist'. It's sexist to you. That doesn't make it universal. That doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.

Because there can't be objective measures of sexism? Man, what an "insane concept." Lul. I hate to take on the phrasing of the right, but, here goes:

"Sorry snowflake, your feelings don't matter. Objective facts matter."

So often people parrot this idea of, "If we start making rules, it'll ruin everything because then more rules might get made!" Except they only tend to apply it to certain things that they dislike, selective readings and selective offense. That's all this is.

That’s a really good question, so here goes.

In an ideal world, yes, I agree that there should be an objective measure for sexism, my personal feelings on the matter are fairly black and white.

In the real world however, no, there isn’t, and no matter how much kicking and screaming you want to do (collective, not specific you) about it, that won’t change, there are places in the world where you would be killed for trying such a thing, there are also cultures that we in the West would consider sexist, but they consider it normal and think we are the wrong ones, we have no inherent right to stop them practicing their culture no matter how abhorrent we find it.

The military memebers here can back me up here, and fair warning, this is pretty nasty for the faint hearted.

So in a certain culture and certain country there are these things called dancing boys, you can probably work it out, we were under DIRECT orders not to interfere with said culture, it’s fething disgusting and several times several people had to be taken off the ground otherwise there would have been casualties... let that sink in..

I have been purposefully vague on that subject because if I was clear, I would breach dakkas code of conduct, but you can read between the lines people.

Another story, a person was speaking with a local national, said local national was found out, she was then dragged through the street and this caused an incident, nearly resulting in the deaths of the local national and several involved parties, including the force protection.

The world is a gak place, and poking your nose into other cultures can get it bitten off... and sadly most of the time there isn’t a god damn thing you can do about it, so grow up (general, not you) and stop being offended by the little things and start trying to do something about the big things.

 Togusa wrote:
I too was raised in such an environment for a few years, until my parents decided it was a detriment.

If your parents were like mine, there was a moment of clarity or someone that helped them realize how destructive it was to make people feel like they were just surrounded by awful, disgusting people all the time... and terrify them by making them think that perfectly normal and natural things were evil and made you a terrible person.

It's kind of why I hate this particular brand of feminism. It's not healthy to just convince people they're surrounded by 'evil' and that everything is their enemy and destroying them, and that enjoying normal things like an appealing physique or even a nude body are 'wrong'. It creates this perpetual state of guilt and self-loathing, and forces people to strive harder and harder to 'cleanse' themselves and prove they're not evil.

I mean, I get it. I don't want to see bare tiddies and penises on the table at a gaming store where people bring families. That's fair and reasonable. But if a grown adult has an entire army of Nurgle Penises being rode into battle by naked STD Hookers at his house? It's none of my business. (Actually, I take that back- I want to see that). But no one has any right to tell him he's wrong or evil or awful for it.

 Togusa wrote:
Remember what happened with Milo Manera and the Spiderman Cover a few years back?

Vaguely. I remember people being freaked out because a guy that draws erotica drew a character in an erotic pose. I'm not sure what they expected, maybe those are the kind of people that would be shocked that Stormfront isn't going to give polite responses when asked about minority crime statistics.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Disciple swings, he misses, he proves Formosa correct again and the crowd goes miiiiiild

feminism
ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

EQUALITY OF THE SEXES, or are you gonna say the Oxford English Dictionary is wrong eh?

equality
ɪˈkwɒlɪti,iːˈkwɒlɪti/Submit
noun
1.
the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities.

So that’s making both sexes equal, not men above woman’s and not woman’s above men, therefore by its very difintion feminism should promote men’s rights equally as it promotes woman’s, so again by its very definition.... disciple is not a feminist hahah

You do realize that women have a longer way to go to equality right? This is like showing up to a Black Lives Matter rally and saying "I agree, but don't All Lives Matter?". You're missing the point by quoting a dictionary. It even says right there "the advocacy of WOMEN'S rights on the ground of the equality"

Haha I knew you would try to argue with the LITERAL meaning of femisim, you continue to prove me right every time you open your mouth, you don’t even know the meaning of the thing you are professing to support.


Wanna hear a secret though .... lean closer .... I live with a feminist lesbian couple, they are in their late 50’s and easily the best people I’ve ever known, I known what a real feminist is from them, from their stories, they had a real fight, real issues to push against, being gay in Northern Ireland in the troubles is likely the biggest issue they faced... they are fething heroes and modern day “feminists” are pathetic shadows of these great pioneers, they are god damn inspirations!

And that is why I mock you, your not a feminist, your a bored man trying to look good in you’re peir group, you’ve likely never fought... really fought for anything in your life.

Yes I’m being harsh, but at least I’m being honest.

Really, first you go "are you going to say the Oxford English dictionary is wrong" and then you move to "the LITERAL meaning". Like you weren't just the guy using an actual dictionary and trying to claim it backed you up? I mean just wow, I have seen quite some dishonesty on Dakka, but this immediate and all too obvious pivot is really something.
But good for your anacdotal evidence I guess, I live with a feminist too so I guess that's that.

What’s wrong, upset I took the whole sentence into account rather than cherry picking like you.... awww ...bless, also upset I taught you want feminism means? Upset that it’s not what you think it is? For shame


I’m going to stop mocking you now, got to give other people a chance at it!

 Formosa wrote:

The military memebers here can back me up here, and fair warning, this is pretty nasty for the faint hearted.

It's probably one of the most haunting things you'll ever see with your own eyes. One of the few things that made me just have to step off and smoke about a pack of cigarettes and cry.

Your point about what is sexist for some and not so for others-

There are places where magazines featuring topless women are open and available on the news stand. You can just flip the book open, bam- tiddies. Act offended all you want, it doesn't matter. The teenage boys next to you are going to look at you like you're an idiot. Because it's just boobs to them, no big deal. If you're bothered by them, then by all means- stay away from the boobs, the rest of us will enjoy them. And if a woman's bothered by them, then she might not want to look inside her shirt... or perhaps she really, really needs to sort out her personal insecurities. That's just the way those people see things.

North America and parts of the UK tend to have folks that want to be prudes about it. Some of the way people talk about these images are just a few notches better than what I've heard hardcore Imams say about womens' modesty.

A 'no nudity' policy in a store is fine, I respect that. It's the shop owner's prerogative what he wants to allow. But if you're going to try and guilt-trip me for enjoying such things, then you'll have to be prepared for me to laugh at you. Because to me, the idea that I should be offended by some boobs because it could unhinge someone with severe insecurities or sexual repression? Absurd. Like, clowns farting on a tambourine levels of absurd.

 Formosa wrote:

In the real world however, no, there isn’t, and no matter how much kicking and screaming you want to do (collective, not specific you) about it, that won’t change, there are places in the world where you would be killed for trying such a thing, there are also cultures that we in the West would consider sexist, but they consider it normal and think we are the wrong ones, we have no inherent right to stop them practicing their culture no matter how abhorrent we find it.

The military memebers here can back me up here, and fair warning, this is pretty nasty for the faint hearted.

So in a certain culture and certain country there are these things called dancing boys, you can probably work it out, we were under DIRECT orders not to interfere with said culture, it’s fething disgusting and several times several people had to be taken off the ground otherwise there would have been casualties... let that sink in..

This is a pretty terrible example. NATO doesn't adress it because its desperate to get the hell out. If you consider human rights to be inalienable you certainly do have the right to stop them. Do we have no inherent right to stop people killing homosexuals for their sexuality or stone people to death over adultery? If you believe a person has human rights you certainly do have the right to stop it. That the West turns a blind eye out of convenience doesn't mean its normal.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
I too was raised in such an environment for a few years, until my parents decided it was a detriment.

If your parents were like mine, there was a moment of clarity or someone that helped them realize how destructive it was to make people feel like they were just surrounded by awful, disgusting people all the time... and terrify them by making them think that perfectly normal and natural things were evil and made you a terrible person.

It's kind of why I hate this particular brand of feminism. It's not healthy to just convince people they're surrounded by 'evil' and that everything is their enemy and destroying them, and that enjoying normal things like an appealing physique or even a nude body are 'wrong'. It creates this perpetual state of guilt and self-loathing, and forces people to strive harder and harder to 'cleanse' themselves and prove they're not evil.

I mean, I get it. I don't want to see bare tiddies and penises on the table at a gaming store where people bring families. That's fair and reasonable. But if a grown adult has an entire army of Nurgle Penises being rode into battle by naked STD Hookers at his house? It's none of my business. (Actually, I take that back- I want to see that). But no one has any right to tell him he's wrong or evil or awful for it.

 Togusa wrote:
Remember what happened with Milo Manera and the Spiderman Cover a few years back?

Vaguely. I remember people being freaked out because a guy that draws erotica drew a character in an erotic pose. I'm not sure what they expected, maybe those are the kind of people that would be shocked that Stormfront isn't going to give polite responses when asked about minority crime statistics.

My parents were the first generation in my family to earn their college education, if that makes it more clear. My mother being a highly educated 40 year veteran nurse, and my father a highly educated earth and environmental science instructor.

But yes, its more than that. Milo was a veteran artist, with a very unique style. He was loved for the fact that his art has always been a celebration of the human body. The cover controversy was just silly, and many people realized that and failed to feed the trolls. But it didn't stop them from trying to oust him and ruin his career.

And I agree, I wouldn't bring nudies into a gaming store with children under the age of 17. Ever. But I also wouldn't jump on someone for having some anime hentai statues at their house. It's their right, and having them doesn't automatically make them a horrible sexist. In fact, most people I know who have big ass titty anime statues, are women. No idea why, but I'm not going to knock them for it.

 Formosa wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Disciple swings, he misses, he proves Formosa correct again and the crowd goes miiiiiild

feminism
ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

EQUALITY OF THE SEXES, or are you gonna say the Oxford English Dictionary is wrong eh?

equality
ɪˈkwɒlɪti,iːˈkwɒlɪti/Submit
noun
1.
the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities.

So that’s making both sexes equal, not men above woman’s and not woman’s above men, therefore by its very difintion feminism should promote men’s rights equally as it promotes woman’s, so again by its very definition.... disciple is not a feminist hahah

You do realize that women have a longer way to go to equality right? This is like showing up to a Black Lives Matter rally and saying "I agree, but don't All Lives Matter?". You're missing the point by quoting a dictionary. It even says right there "the advocacy of WOMEN'S rights on the ground of the equality"

Haha I knew you would try to argue with the LITERAL meaning of femisim, you continue to prove me right every time you open your mouth, you don’t even know the meaning of the thing you are professing to support.


Wanna hear a secret though .... lean closer .... I live with a feminist lesbian couple, they are in their late 50’s and easily the best people I’ve ever known, I known what a real feminist is from them, from their stories, they had a real fight, real issues to push against, being gay in Northern Ireland in the troubles is likely the biggest issue they faced... they are fething heroes and modern day “feminists” are pathetic shadows of these great pioneers, they are god damn inspirations!

And that is why I mock you, your not a feminist, your a bored man trying to look good in you’re peir group, you’ve likely never fought... really fought for anything in your life.

Yes I’m being harsh, but at least I’m being honest.

Really, first you go "are you going to say the Oxford English dictionary is wrong" and then you move to "the LITERAL meaning". Like you weren't just the guy using an actual dictionary and trying to claim it backed you up? I mean just wow, I have seen quite some dishonesty on Dakka, but this immediate and all too obvious pivot is really something.
But good for your anacdotal evidence I guess, I live with a feminist too so I guess that's that.

What’s wrong, upset I took the whole sentence into account rather than cherry picking like you.... awww ...bless, also upset I taught you want feminism means? Upset that it’s not what you think it is? For shame


I’m going to stop mocking you now, got to give other people a chance at it!

It literally says advocating women's rights at the start, not men and women, just women. Its sad that you conflate equalism with feminism though, it shows how far feminism still has to go. Are you really going to stand here and pretend we already have full equality?

 Formosa wrote:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
That's the problem. You're calling it 'sexist'. It's sexist to you. That doesn't make it universal. That doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.

Because there can't be objective measures of sexism? Man, what an "insane concept." Lul. I hate to take on the phrasing of the right, but, here goes:

"Sorry snowflake, your feelings don't matter. Objective facts matter."

So often people parrot this idea of, "If we start making rules, it'll ruin everything because then more rules might get made!" Except they only tend to apply it to certain things that they dislike, selective readings and selective offense. That's all this is.

That’s a really good question, so here goes.

In an ideal world, yes, I agree that there should be an objective measure for sexism, my personal feelings on the matter are fairly black and white.

In the real world however, no, there isn’t, and no matter how much kicking and screaming you want to do (collective, not specific you) about it, that won’t change, there are places in the world where you would be killed for trying such a thing, there are also cultures that we in the West would consider sexist, but they consider it normal and think we are the wrong ones, we have no inherent right to stop them practicing their culture no matter how abhorrent we find it.

The military memebers here can back me up here, and fair warning, this is pretty nasty for the faint hearted.

So in a certain culture and certain country there are these things called dancing boys, you can probably work it out, we were under DIRECT orders not to interfere with said culture, it’s fething disgusting and several times several people had to be taken off the ground otherwise there would have been casualties... let that sink in..

I ha
The world is a gak place, and poking your nose into other cultures can get it bitten off... and sadly most of the time there isn’t a god damn thing you can do about it, so grow up (general, not you) and stop being offended by the little things and start trying to do something about the big things.

One of my Marine friends was in this situation in Afghanistan. He and two buddies dealt with the situation while on patrol with the offending Afghan Officer a week later. Premature weapon discharges are very unfortunate, friendly fire is seldom friendly.

 Nurglitch wrote:
Exactly. I'm hoping for a world in which the guy showing up with the sexist miniatures at the local gaming shop is treated just like the guy that loses his temper when confronted by someone he doesn't like, and is unwelcome in the shop or club.

*quietly puts his Daughter of Khaine miniatures back in the case*

 Togusa wrote:
And I agree, I wouldn't bring nudies into a gaming store with children under the age of 17. Ever. But I also wouldn't jump on someone for having some anime hentai statues at their house. It's their right, and having them doesn't automatically make them a horrible sexist. In fact, most people I know who have big ass titty anime statues, are women. No idea why, but I'm not going to knock them for it.

...yeah. I know quite a few female artists that... are really, really into tiddies.


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 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Its sad that you conflate equalism with feminism though, it shows how far feminism still has to go.

Feminism: Because apparently, 'equality' isn't good enough.

Tell me again why I should respect this cult?

(I'm aware there are several flavors that are less insane, but this is the one that seems to keep coming up as 'actual feminism')

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
Exactly. I'm hoping for a world in which the guy showing up with the sexist miniatures at the local gaming shop is treated just like the guy that loses his temper when confronted by someone he doesn't like, and is unwelcome in the shop or club.

*quietly puts his Daughter of Khaine miniatures back in the case*

You're welcome to come to our store, and I will say any store where that happens, is a store you probably don't want to play games at in the first place.

 Togusa wrote:
One of my Marine friends was in this situation in Afghanistan. He and two buddies dealt with the situation while on patrol with the offending Afghan Officer a week later. Premature weapon discharges are very unfortunate, friendly fire is seldom friendly.

Is this the part of the feminism thread where we promote murder?

 Nurglitch wrote:
"Sexism: prejudicial attitudes and discrimination against women on the basis of their sex. Sexism ranges from the individual to the institutional level and includes (a) beliefs, (b) behaviors, (c) use of language and (d) policies reflecting and conveying a pervasive view that women are inferior."
-- Linguist Phil Herbst

The usual, sexist response to this is Nigel Tufnel's "What's wrong with being sexy?" The answer, I think, is comparing On Our Backs to Playboy since they're both porn. Playboy pictorials depict women as being displayed for the viewer, and what are particular kind of male viewer wants to see (Penthouse picked up the slack in that department...). On Our Backs pictorials depicted lesbian couples as they wanted their relationship and sexuality to be seen.

Maybe a military analogy would help. There's overt 'shock and awe' sexism and there's 'british east india' sexism.

So sexism can only happen against women. I'm pretty sure I will give lots of credibility on "Linguist Phil Herbst".

 Togusa wrote:
You're welcome to come to our store, and I will say any store where that happens, is a store you probably don't want to play games at in the first place.

Likewise. Our store simply doesn't allow nude models.

And it's amazing how that works- stores that would do something like that are cesspits of the exact sort of persons I want nothing to do with. People who would take issues with those models are pretty much informing me that they're the first person I need to show to the door.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
And I agree, I wouldn't bring nudies into a gaming store with children under the age of 17. Ever. But I also wouldn't jump on someone for having some anime hentai statues at their house. It's their right, and having them doesn't automatically make them a horrible sexist. In fact, most people I know who have big ass titty anime statues, are women. No idea why, but I'm not going to knock them for it.

...yeah. I know quite a few female artists that... are really, really into tiddies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Its sad that you conflate equalism with feminism though, it shows how far feminism still has to go.

Feminism: Because apparently, 'equality' isn't good enough.

Tell me again why I should respect this cult?

(I'm aware there are several flavors that are less insane, but this is the one that seems to keep coming up as 'actual feminism')

Actually, most of the female artists I know who draw a lot of hentai are quite talented at the titty drawing. Unrealistic mind you, but they love it. It makes me happy to see that they can express themselves without being shot down for being "white sis het male sexist pig monsters" or whatever buzzwords some of the more vocal young lefties use these days.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Is this the part of the feminism thread where we promote murder?

Not sure that was promoting it, just saying it happened. I remember hearing about it. Some dudes shot a child molester.

Meanwhile, nothing of value was lost IMHO but I'm not advocating you go and kill people. Just that I don't care what happens to a child molester.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
One of my Marine friends was in this situation in Afghanistan. He and two buddies dealt with the situation while on patrol with the offending Afghan Officer a week later. Premature weapon discharges are very unfortunate, friendly fire is seldom friendly.

Is this the part of the feminism thread where we promote murder?

Not at all, there was no murder. It was an accident.

War is hell, and bad things happen in war. Guns misfire and kill their users or others near them more often than you think.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Likewise. Our store simply doesn't allow nude models.

So, no DoK medusae or Diaz Demonettes?

 Togusa wrote:
Actually, most of the female artists I know who draw a lot of hentai are quite talented at the titty drawing. Unrealistic mind you, but they love it. It makes me happy to see that they can express themselves without being shot down for being "white sis het male sexist pig monsters" or whatever buzzwords some of the more vocal young lefties use these days.

One of my personal favorite friends that does this would get some feminist lashing out at her on her NSFW art site every now and then and calling her some 'basement dwelling pervert' or something along those lines. Since this girl wasn't ashamed of her own, uh... assets... she would write "Sorry, [Insert Feminist Name]" right across her own bare bust and post it on there.


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 Sqorgar wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Likewise. Our store simply doesn't allow nude models.

So, no DoK medusae or Diaz Demonettes?

They don't even really have like, nipples though. Just boob-shaped chest meat.

EDIT: I'm wrong about the Daemonettes. I've just not seen them before IRL. As far as the Medusae, I thought they wore tops.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Actually, most of the female artists I know who draw a lot of hentai are quite talented at the titty drawing. Unrealistic mind you, but they love it. It makes me happy to see that they can express themselves without being shot down for being "white sis het male sexist pig monsters" or whatever buzzwords some of the more vocal young lefties use these days.

One of my personal favorite friends that does this would get some feminist lashing out at her on her NSFW art site every now and then and calling her some 'basement dwelling pervert' or something along those lines. Since this girl wasn't ashamed of her own, uh... assets... she would write "Sorry, [Insert Feminist Name]" right across her own bare bust and post it on there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Likewise. Our store simply doesn't allow nude models.

So, no DoK medusae or Diaz Demonettes?

They don't even really have like, nipples though. Just boob-shaped chest meat.

Haha, that's funny.

Most females I know, tend to be pretty anti third wave feminism. I'm not sure if that is because the vast majority of women in my life are highly educated in the sciences, far beyond the masters level, and they tend to think for themselves, rather than joining a groupthink or if they do it out of spite for SS majors.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Likewise. Our store simply doesn't allow nude models.

So, no DoK medusae or Diaz Demonettes?

They don't even really have like, nipples though. Just boob-shaped chest meat.

EDIT: I'm wrong about the Daemonettes. I've just not seen them before IRL. As far as the Medusae, I thought they wore tops.

They have nipples. I like to just stare at them all day long, objectifying them in a particularly gendered sort of way. I'm looking for a Lord of Slaanesh on Daemonic Mount so that I can oppress women even more. Once I get that and a Keeper of Secrets, my domination of the weaker sex will be complete.