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I feel like I know the answer to both of these but it's better to check.

First off, if Player X uses a Stratagem that costs 3 CP, and Player Y uses Agents of Vect, rolling a 2-5 as the result, AND Player Y has a Warlord with the Trait: Labyrinthe Cunning, does he roll six dice for the Trait or three? 99% sure it's six but there was some recent confusion.

Second, if a Deathwatch Player shoots a Harlequins Unit and chooses to Wound on 2's, but the Harlequins are in range of the -1 to Wound Aura, do the attacks wound on 2's or 3's? Hellfire Rounds say "Always wounds on a 2+" which seems like it invalidates the Aura.

Thank you!

For the second part. The always wounds on a 2+ would be in reference to S v T. The modifier would still be taken into account. So it would be a 3+

Fragile wrote:
For the second part. The always wounds on a 2+ would be in reference to S v T. The modifier would still be taken into account. So it would be a 3+

"Always" doesn't really mean "usually, unless other circumstances arise". I'd play it as the set value winning over the modifier

nekooni wrote:

Fragile wrote:
For the second part. The always wounds on a 2+ would be in reference to S v T. The modifier would still be taken into account. So it would be a 3+

"Always" doesn't really mean "usually, unless other circumstances arise". I'd play it as the set value winning over the modifier

Agreed.

Does the wounding on 2+ state that it happens regardless of any modifiers?

Does the harlequin ability state that you add 1 to the wound roll when an enemy is trying to wound the unit?

Answers to these questions would tell us how the second interaction plays out.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Does the wounding on 2+ state that it happens regardless of any modifiers?

Yes, "Always wounds on a 2+" is regardless of modifiers because of the use of the word always.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Does the wounding on 2+ state that it happens regardless of any modifiers?

Yes, "Always wounds on a 2+" is regardless of modifiers because of the use of the word always.

“Always wounds on 2+” is a very simple sentence, not sure how it could be misconstrued. It’s a rule inherently designed to bypass modifiers.

Aren't there similar rules that state "always wounds on a 2+ regardless of any modifiers" or am I imagining things?

The key really is whether the Harlie ability subtracts 1 to the wound roll, because then you could roll a literal 2 but it would be modified to be a 1 and fail. I'm guessing the harlie ability adds 1 to the requirement of the wound roll though? Which is moot if the weapon 'always wounds on a 2+', agreed.

Shield From Harm states that your opponent must subtract 1 from wound rolls. Deathwatch wounding on 2+ would need a 3+ to wound due to a 2 being modified into a 1, and last time I checked, a 1 is not a 2.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Aren't there similar rules that state "always wounds on a 2+ regardless of any modifiers" or am I imagining things?

The key really is whether the Harlie ability subtracts 1 to the wound roll, because then you could roll a literal 2 but it would be modified to be a 1 and fail. I'm guessing the harlie ability adds 1 to the requirement of the wound roll though? Which is moot if the weapon 'always wounds on a 2+', agreed.

Consistency really ain’t GW’s thing, haha. There are such rules, but they’re essentially tautologous.

 Nighttail wrote:
Shield From Harm states that your opponent must subtract 1 from wound rolls. Deathwatch wounding on 2+ would need a 3+ to wound due to a 2 being modified into a 1, and last time I checked, a 1 is not a 2.

If that is the rule this would be my take on the interaction also.

Wouldn't this be akin to the dark reapers always hitting on X vs modifiers. IIRC they always hit overrides all modifiers.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Aren't there similar rules that state "always wounds on a 2+ regardless of any modifiers" or am I imagining things?

The key really is whether the Harlie ability subtracts 1 to the wound roll, because then you could roll a literal 2 but it would be modified to be a 1 and fail. I'm guessing the harlie ability adds 1 to the requirement of the wound roll though? Which is moot if the weapon 'always wounds on a 2+', agreed.

Hm. That kinda makes sense, what's the difference between Dark Reapers and this? The dark reaper says something along the lines of "ignoring any modifiers", iirc?

So a natural 2 is a roll of 1 which fails.
A natural roll of 2 for a reaper would remain a 2,and if it had special ammo it would then wound since it'd always wound on 2+

Dark Reapers explicitly ignore modifiers. The Harlies would be wounded on 3's.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Wouldn't this be akin to the dark reapers always hitting on X vs modifiers. IIRC they always hit overrides all modifiers.

Dark Reapers always hit on 3+, regardless of modifiers, (however still require a 6 when firing Overwatch).

Guys, you're all making the exact same mistake. Modifiers affect the ROLL, not the result needed.

"Always wounds on a 2+" means you need a result of 2 to wound. It doesn't mean you always roll a D6.

"Always wound on a 2+" with a D6-1 still always wounds on a 2. You just need a 3 on the physical dice to make it.


Dark Reapers explicitly say to ignore modifiers, so you're always rolling a D6 for Dark Reapers.

So seems like I was wrong on the Deathwatch interaction and right on the Agents of Vect one.