Order of operations for Str with a Thunderhammer and an STR bonus

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**kronk**

High Marshall Helbrecht adds 1 to Black Templars Str within a set distance.

Thunder Hammer is Str x2

Is a BT model with a TH and in range of HMH STR 9 or 10?

I have played since 4th ed, and it has always been 9 in this type of situation.. However, I cannot find the answer in the 8th Rulebook.

TY

**Alpharius Walks**

Please see the first question in the 40k Designers' Commentary document:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

That details the appropriate order of operations to resolve your question.

**p5freak**

Always check the FAQs if you dont find the answer in the rules. From the designers commentary :

Q: If a rule modifies a model’s Strength
characteristic, and that model is equipped
with a melee weapon that also has a
modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain
the order in which the modifiers are
applied to the characteristics and the
weapon’s Strength?

A: First you must determine the model’s
current Strength characteristic. To do so
apply all modifiers to it that multiply or
divide the value, then apply any that add
or subtract to it. Having done this, you
then modify this value as described by the
weapon’s Strength characteristic.

Assuming the model has S4 his strength with TH is 10.

**wraith[cs]**

p5freak wrote:
Always check the FAQs if you dont find the answer in the rules. From the designers commentary :

Q: If a rule modifies a model’s Strength
characteristic, and that model is equipped
with a melee weapon that also has a
modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain
the order in which the modifiers are
applied to the characteristics and the
weapon’s Strength?

A: First you must determine the model’s
current Strength characteristic. To do so
apply all modifiers to it that multiply or
divide the value, then apply any that add
or subtract to it. Having done this, you
then modify this value as described by the
weapon’s Strength characteristic.

Assuming the model has S4 his strength with TH is 9.

I disagree. I believe the TH would be str 10 if he started base str 4 with a +1. Following the FAQ it goes :

1. Multiply or divide the value (none, proceed to step 2)
2. Add or Subtract (+1 STR, Now STR 5 - proceed to step 3)
3. THEN modify for the weapon (x2, so str 5 x2 = str 10)

It states clearly to modify the str before figuring out the weapons strength characteristic.

**p5freak**

Right, its 10.

**BaconCatBug**

It is indeed 10 nowadays. You apply non-weapon modifiers to the strength first, then apply the weapon modifiers.

**blaktoof**

Apply modifiers that don't come from weapon. This determines the models strength.

Then apply modifiers from weapon. This determines the strength of the attack with that weapon.

**mhalko1**

blaktoof wrote:
Apply modifiers that don't come from weapon. This determines the models strength.

Then apply modifiers from weapon. This determines the strength of the attack with that weapon.

You are correct. As per the designers commentary, they say all values go multiplication -> addition for abilities that change the models strength. Then you apply changes to the Strength based on the weapons profile.