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Hello, this is my first post in awhile. I've recently got back into the new edition and after playing a few games and tinkering with lists, I think I'm able to formulate a competitive list that fits my play style.



+++ [120 PL, 1999pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [49 PL, 833pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: World Eaters

+ HQ +

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 76pts]: Bolt pistol, Mark of Khorne, Power maul

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 70pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Mark of Khorne

+ Troops +

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 157pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 157pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 157pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [56 PL, 996pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 183pts]: Malefic talon, Tzeentch, Warp bolter

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 180pts]: 2. Flames of Spite, Intoxicating Elixir, Malefic talon, Slaanesh, Warlord

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: Bolt pistol, Force sword, Mark of Nurgle, Miasma of Pestilence, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [12 PL, 160pts]: 39x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Nurgle
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Space Marines [5 PL, 90pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Chainsword
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon

Chaos Space Marines [5 PL, 90pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Chainsword
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Renegades & Heretics) [15 PL, 170pts] ++

+ HQ +

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 25pts]: Brutal Assault weapon, Lasgun

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 25pts]: Brutal Assault weapon, Lasgun

+ Troops +

Renegade Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Renegade Cultist w/ Autogun
. Renegade Cultist Champion: Autogun

Renegade Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Renegade Cultist w/ Autogun
. Renegade Cultist Champion: Autogun

Renegade Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Renegade Cultist w/ Autogun
. Renegade Cultist Champion: Autogun


-The general idea behind the list is to have the 40 man cultist unit screen for the characters. The sorcerer will be running with the cultists and will be buffing them with Warptime (to keep up with the Flying DP's speed) Miasma of Pestilence (granting them to be shot at -2 the enemies BS as it stacks with the Alpha Legions -1 to hit as well). Princes fly behind the screen and cast smite and other psychic powers along the way before they can get in close combat. If cultist numbers get too low I can use 2 cp on Tide of Traitors and place them wherever is needed during the game.

-The Exalted Champion and the Dark Apostle run with the berzerkers in rhinos and try to get in combat ASAP.

-Oblits do their thing and shoot where ever necessary.

-2 CSM Lascannon units bunker up in cover to get that 2+ save and gain the alpha legion -1 to hit if they're 12" from the enemy.

-Renegades and heretics units will be used to grab objectives or hide depending the missions. They're mainly for free +5 CP.

-Overall strategies could change and I always have the freedom to infiltrate the oblits, or maybe even the 40 man cultist blob if needed thanks to the Alpha Legion Stratagem.

Criticism is highly appreciated, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the best way to maximize this list and make it competitive. Thanks for your time.

You have quite heavily invested into rhinos.
i gotta be honest at 72 pts they are not worth the hassle often times.

Not Online!!! wrote:
You have quite heavily invested into rhinos.
i gotta be honest at 72 pts they are not worth the hassle often times.

Right. I've been getting info from other places on how people just infiltrate alpha legion zerkers and call it a day. I've also been told that the 18 cp is too much and 13 is fine, so I should probably use those points elsewhere as well..

I am personally a really big fan of Rhinos. They are often a top performer in my games.

They can take 2 Combi Bolters, which is a pretty good amount of fire power, and you can toss a Havoc Launcher on top for some added weight of fire as well. 85 points is hardly breaking the bank, and they add a nice bit of mobility and supporting fire for your Berserkers. What makes Rhinos good however is assaulting with them. Prevent a more expensive enemy from shooting, or assault into dangerous over watch so your Zerkers can charge in without worrying about it. Rhinos are so much more than just a delivery box now. They have a lot to offer on the table, and can be frustrating to deal with. Rhinos are especially capable when you have other dangerous close combat oriented vehicles in your list as well- like Maulerfiends, or a cheap Defiler.

As to the list, I think you would be better served with a Slaanesh Sorcerer. Delightful Agonies is a very good defense buff, and you have a lot more Slaanesh hitters than Nurgle ones- including your Warlord and Obliterators. Miasma of Pesitlence is not worth it just to cast on a single big squad of cultists. Mark of Slaanesh is better on the massive cultist blob anyway, since you can bring them back onto the board with tide of traitors in rapid fire range, and use endless cacophony to make 160 autogun shots.

 akaean wrote:
I am personally a really big fan of Rhinos. They are often a top performer in my games.

They can take 2 Combi Bolters, which is a pretty good amount of fire power, and you can toss a Havoc Launcher on top for some added weight of fire as well. 85 points is hardly breaking the bank, and they add a nice bit of mobility and supporting fire for your Berserkers. What makes Rhinos good however is assaulting with them. Prevent a more expensive enemy from shooting, or assault into dangerous over watch so your Zerkers can charge in without worrying about it. Rhinos are so much more than just a delivery box now. They have a lot to offer on the table, and can be frustrating to deal with. Rhinos are especially capable when you have other dangerous close combat oriented vehicles in your list as well- like Maulerfiends, or a cheap Defiler.

As to the list, I think you would be better served with a Slaanesh Sorcerer. Delightful Agonies is a very good defense buff, and you have a lot more Slaanesh hitters than Nurgle ones- including your Warlord and Obliterators. Miasma of Pesitlence is not worth it just to cast on a single big squad of cultists. Mark of Slaanesh is better on the massive cultist blob anyway, since you can bring them back onto the board with tide of traitors in rapid fire range, and use endless cacophony to make 160 autogun shots.

Right, I haven’t played many games, but the games that I’ve played rhinos have been pretty reliable. I just like hearing others opinions on it. Your poInt on slaanesh cultists is very valid. Idk -2 to hit sounds good, but -1 to hit with 5+ FNP is probably just as good, and having them shoot twice with the cacophony makes them very versatile. You just convinced me to probably just take slaanesh cultists instead lol. I’ll probaby repost my rehashed list as soon as I get back to my computer to hear everyone’s thoughts. I’ve been told 18 cp is overkill and that 13 is fine for 2000 points. So sticking to two battalions will save me more points to spend on other killy units.

I kinda reiterate what people have said. Nowhere in the 'forward operatives' stratagem does it say can only be used once per battle, and so this means you can put multiple things up before the first turn. This also means you might want to think about dropping units to decrease drops. Also, as you have said, just drop the renegades and heretics battalion. It adds nothing valuable and what it does add you already have enough of.

If you use forward operatives, you could also drop a rhino or two, and take more zerkers or oblits. There's PLENTY of options, go with what looks cool and experiment. Have fun!

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
I kinda reiterate what people have said. Nowhere in the 'forward operatives' stratagem does it say can only be used once per battle, and so this means you can put multiple things up before the first turn. This also means you might want to think about dropping units to decrease drops. Also, as you have said, just drop the renegades and heretics battalion. It adds nothing valuable and what it does add you already have enough of.

If you use forward operatives, you could also drop a rhino or two, and take more zerkers or oblits. There's PLENTY of options, go with what looks cool and experiment. Have fun!

Yeah I’m aware of infiltrating multiple units. In my new build I plan to have atleast 2 oblit units to infiltrate. But as you said I could experiment with other things. While infiltrating zerkers is nasty, I could mix it up with rhino zerkers. Personally my play style is close combat and some shooting. Generally shooting to support and make sure the combat guys get in combat. With dropping the 3rd battalion it makes room for more scary distractions for the opponent, allowing the zerkers in rhinos to get in combat. And obliterators are just too good not to take more of. The only issue is if I go 2nd then I have zerkers that aren’t protected in rhinos. Rhinos have served me well so far in my games, so I appreciate what people have suggested, it just feels weird dropping rhinos. People have been giving praise and negatives about rhinos, so I guess the community is at 50/50 when it comes to transporting zerkers or just infiltrating them. Depending on the match I could probably just make a list where I infiltrate zerkers if I go 1st, or just keep them in rhinos if I go 2nd.

Thanks for the feedback!

whywadewhy wrote:

 akaean wrote:
I am personally a really big fan of Rhinos. They are often a top performer in my games.

They can take 2 Combi Bolters, which is a pretty good amount of fire power, and you can toss a Havoc Launcher on top for some added weight of fire as well. 85 points is hardly breaking the bank, and they add a nice bit of mobility and supporting fire for your Berserkers. What makes Rhinos good however is assaulting with them. Prevent a more expensive enemy from shooting, or assault into dangerous over watch so your Zerkers can charge in without worrying about it. Rhinos are so much more than just a delivery box now. They have a lot to offer on the table, and can be frustrating to deal with. Rhinos are especially capable when you have other dangerous close combat oriented vehicles in your list as well- like Maulerfiends, or a cheap Defiler.

As to the list, I think you would be better served with a Slaanesh Sorcerer. Delightful Agonies is a very good defense buff, and you have a lot more Slaanesh hitters than Nurgle ones- including your Warlord and Obliterators. Miasma of Pesitlence is not worth it just to cast on a single big squad of cultists. Mark of Slaanesh is better on the massive cultist blob anyway, since you can bring them back onto the board with tide of traitors in rapid fire range, and use endless cacophony to make 160 autogun shots.

Right, I haven’t played many games, but the games that I’ve played rhinos have been pretty reliable. I just like hearing others opinions on it. Your poInt on slaanesh cultists is very valid. Idk -2 to hit sounds good, but -1 to hit with 5+ FNP is probably just as good, and having them shoot twice with the cacophony makes them very versatile. You just convinced me to probably just take slaanesh cultists instead lol. I’ll probaby repost my rehashed list as soon as I get back to my computer to hear everyone’s thoughts. I’ve been told 18 cp is overkill and that 13 is fine for 2000 points. So sticking to two battalions will save me more points to spend on other killy units.

Mate, you spend 50 pts in HQ and 120 pts in cultists for your 5 additional CP. There is no unit that is enough killy to compensate for those additional 5 cp in the whole CSM codex.
That beeing said, if you are so concerned for the safety of your zerkers, why not run some salamanders? They get an additional before- turn move of 9" whilest providing some decent cover.
Rhinos have 2 schools of thought, on one side you get mobility, some firepower and cover. On the other side, that you get decent firpower you need to invest into additional weapons. Mostly combibolters and inferno launchers, and at that pricetag you would be better off running chimeras, which have better firepower and transport capacity. However those don't get played in IG /R&H lists all the time, but personally that has more to do with the lack of decent shockinfantery (except Marauders with carpace armor, but then you suffer in other regards because the R&H index is more meh then good).

Mate, you spend 50 pts in HQ and 120 pts in cultists for your 5 additional CP. There is no unit that is enough killy to compensate for those additional 5 cp in the whole CSM codex.
That beeing said, if you are so concerned for the safety of your zerkers, why not run some salamanders? They get an additional before- turn move of 9" whilest providing some decent cover.
Rhinos have 2 schools of thought, on one side you get mobility, some firepower and cover. On the other side, that you get decent firpower you need to invest into additional weapons. Mostly combibolters and inferno launchers, and at that pricetag you would be better off running chimeras, which have better firepower and transport capacity. However those don't get played in IG /R&H lists all the time, but personally that has more to do with the lack of decent shockinfantery (except Marauders with carpace armor, but then you suffer in other regards because the R&H index is more meh then good).

I mean people have been telling me that 18 cp is overkill and that 13 is enough for a 2000 point game. If I then take out that 3rd battalion I only save 170, but that's almost enough for another obliterator squad which could make my army more of a threat. It basically comes down to me trading 5 cp for just one obliterator unit. The 5 cp is worth a lot, but if 18 cp seems too much wouldn't losing 5 cp to gain another unit that can do damage worth it? I ask anyone here because I lack the experience to know myself. I'm not super concerned about the zerkers safety because I know gak will die, but I just want the insurance of knowing I'll see combat with at least someone in my army and hopefully do damage with it. Just wanted to hear people's thoughts on what they see the best way to transport zerkers. As of right now rhinos have served me well for their point cost. But I see your point and I appreciate the feedback.

Lastly your point on chimeras, is that even something I can even transport zerkers with? If it's something in R&H is that legal to transport my CSM units with a transport of a different codex?

Noob question for this.
The Stratagem for Forward Operatives states that Alpha Legion Infantry units can be placed. Since the Zerkers are World Eaters wouldn't this exclude them from the Stratagem?
Sorry, haven't played in awhile and this caught my eye.

 Billie_Joe wrote:
Noob question for this.
The Stratagem for Forward Operatives states that Alpha Legion Infantry units can be placed. Since the Zerkers are World Eaters wouldn't this exclude them from the Stratagem?
Sorry, haven't played in awhile and this caught my eye.

Berzerkers are not limited to only being taken in a World Eaters detachment. You can still take them as Alpha Legion, but only as Elites. You just lose the ability to take them as troops and any other benefits that would be being a World Eaters infantry unit. But you gain the benefits of being an Alpha Legion infantry unit. So if I wanted to use Forward Operatives on berzerkers I could, I would just need to take them as elites. I would lose any World Eaters legion traits or World Eater stratagems though.

whywadewhy wrote:

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
I kinda reiterate what people have said. Nowhere in the 'forward operatives' stratagem does it say can only be used once per battle, and so this means you can put multiple things up before the first turn. This also means you might want to think about dropping units to decrease drops. Also, as you have said, just drop the renegades and heretics battalion. It adds nothing valuable and what it does add you already have enough of.

If you use forward operatives, you could also drop a rhino or two, and take more zerkers or oblits. There's PLENTY of options, go with what looks cool and experiment. Have fun!

Yeah I’m aware of infiltrating multiple units. In my new build I plan to have atleast 2 oblit units to infiltrate. But as you said I could experiment with other things. While infiltrating zerkers is nasty, I could mix it up with rhino zerkers. Personally my play style is close combat and some shooting. Generally shooting to support and make sure the combat guys get in combat. With dropping the 3rd battalion it makes room for more scary distractions for the opponent, allowing the zerkers in rhinos to get in combat. And obliterators are just too good not to take more of. The only issue is if I go 2nd then I have zerkers that aren’t protected in rhinos. Rhinos have served me well so far in my games, so I appreciate what people have suggested, it just feels weird dropping rhinos. People have been giving praise and negatives about rhinos, so I guess the community is at 50/50 when it comes to transporting zerkers or just infiltrating them. Depending on the match I could probably just make a list where I infiltrate zerkers if I go 1st, or just keep them in rhinos if I go 2nd.

Thanks for the feedback!

Just curious as to why you would infiltrate the Oblits as opposed to Deep Striking them?

Firstly: no you can't use chimeras for your zerkers. My point was that even tho chimeras are vastly superior in durability and firepower they still don't get picked.
Secondly: You will use a lot of stratagems if you run alpha legion. Mainly because of forward operatives even on obliterators. Why? Because double shooting Slaneesh stratagem on turn 1 can potentially Ruin your enemies day.
Thirdly: on your renegade detachment, frankly if you feel you are killy enough but have to few boddies use them, if you are not killy enough maybee use something else
OR make use of the vanguard detachment (the one with min 3 elites and 1 hq)
5 marauders are 30pts sniper rifles are 2 pts, nade launchers are 5. They are extremely durable if you take stalker and can secure your backline decently. Also they have 2 melee attacks standart:
1 renegade commander 25pts
5 marauders 2 sniperrifles 34 pts
5 marauders 2 sniperrifles 34 pts
5 marauders 2 sniperrifles 34 pts
Total 127pts.
Left over 43 pts
I recommend a additional 5x renegade mortar squad and additional bolters for your marauder chiefs.

There is something to be said about Chaos Rhino's w/ combi plasma's and the berzerkers in them.

Drive up rhino, unload plasma, hope to roll 1 (maybe fire at something that gives negative modifiers) blow up rhino, deploy berzerkers 3" - hopefully in charge range by that time annnnnd - charge!!