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mchammadad wrote:
BRB pg 182 under heading "Overwatch"

Each time a charge is declared against a unit, the target unit can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker. A target unit can potentially fire Overwatch several times a turn, though it cannot fire if there are any enemy models within 1" of it. Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

Modifiers are ignored because overwatch states that a roll of a 6 is needed, regardless of Balistics Skill or Modifiers

Irrespective is not the same as ignored.

mchammadad wrote:
BRB pg 182 under heading "Overwatch"

Each time a charge is declared against a unit, the target unit can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker. A target unit can potentially fire Overwatch several times a turn, though it cannot fire if there are any enemy models within 1" of it. Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

Modifiers are ignored because overwatch states that a roll of a 6 is needed, regardless of Balistics Skill or Modifiers

Modifiers are ignored for determining if you hit. Modifiers apply for other effects - if you had supercharged plasma firing overwatch, you would overheat on a 1 or 2 because of the -1 even though the -1 doesn't affect whether you hit.

 doctortom wrote:

Stux wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Agreed. It’s nonsensical to say you get 3 hits instead of 1 if you haven’t hit in the first place.

It's weird for sure, but it is RAW. The rule says if you roll 6+ you get 3 hits. The 'instead of 1' bit does make it read clumsily in this circumstance, but I don't see how that overrides the actual rule to be honest.

Who's to say the intention though wasn't for there to be a chance that the Tesla gun unleashes a flamer style wall of electricity that would be impossible to avoid?

No, the RAW is that you get 3 hits instead of one; you don't get to ignore the "instead of 1" part because you find it inconvenient. By RAW, you would therefore have to have 1 hit in the first place that can be the "instead of" replaced by 3 hits. If you don't get the first hit, you don't get 3 hits.

I agree with this. You can't get 3 hits instead of one if you didn't get one. Additionally, it only makes sense that a hit becomes more hits when it actually hits.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
That isn't what irrespective means. From your flag I assume English isn't your first language. Irrespective doesn't mean ignore, it means "to not take into account" (a subtle but important difference), in this case you're only "not taking into account" the modifiers when deciding if you hit or not, you still apply the modifiers to everything else.

Ok, the outcome is still the same. The +1 to hit is not taken into account. If its not taken into account a 5 remains a 5 and it misses. You cant have 3 hits instead of 1 when you miss.

 Kharneth wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

Stux wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Agreed. It’s nonsensical to say you get 3 hits instead of 1 if you haven’t hit in the first place.

It's weird for sure, but it is RAW. The rule says if you roll 6+ you get 3 hits. The 'instead of 1' bit does make it read clumsily in this circumstance, but I don't see how that overrides the actual rule to be honest.

Who's to say the intention though wasn't for there to be a chance that the Tesla gun unleashes a flamer style wall of electricity that would be impossible to avoid?

No, the RAW is that you get 3 hits instead of one; you don't get to ignore the "instead of 1" part because you find it inconvenient. By RAW, you would therefore have to have 1 hit in the first place that can be the "instead of" replaced by 3 hits. If you don't get the first hit, you don't get 3 hits.

I agree with this. You can't get 3 hits instead of one if you didn't get one. Additionally, it only makes sense that a hit becomes more hits when it actually hits.

Yup. You can’t skip the “instead of one” and pretend the rule just reads “three hits”.

 Kharneth wrote:
I agree with this. You can't get 3 hits instead of one if you didn't get one. Additionally, it only makes sense that a hit becomes more hits when it actually hits.

By that logic, you can't use Smoke Launchers if you can't fire either, which was FAQed to work with the explanation " A model can use such an ability so long as it does not shoot – it does not matter whether this is because the
model cannot shoot or it chooses not to."

"Tesla" is an ability, it's in the Abilities section of the weapons profile, it's just a mandatory one rather than optional.

I'll be the first to admit it's shaky to use the Smoke Launcher FAQ like this, but the fact they give a generic reasoning rather than totally Special Snowflaking it without reason is a good indication Tesla works even if the "model cannot hit or it chooses not to."

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:
I agree with this. You can't get 3 hits instead of one if you didn't get one. Additionally, it only makes sense that a hit becomes more hits when it actually hits.

By that logic, you can't use Smoke Launchers if you can't fire either, which was FAQed to work with the explanation " A model can use such an ability so long as it does not shoot – it does not matter whether this is because the
model cannot shoot or it chooses not to."

"Tesla" is an ability, it's in the Abilities section of the weapons profile, it's just a mandatory one rather than optional.

I'll be the first to admit it's shaky to use the Smoke Launcher FAQ like this, but the fact they give a generic reasoning rather than totally Special Snowflaking it without reason is a good indication Tesla works even if the "model cannot hit or it chooses not to."

It's extremely shaky, as those conditions don't apply here. Tesla is something that magnifies the original hit, as evidenced by it saying 3 hits instead of 1. This is not choosing an action to use in a certain phase instead of another action which you might not get to use at all. There is no logic to make your "by that logic" comparison - the two situations are as similar as a banana and a nuclear warhead....not at all.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:
I agree with this. You can't get 3 hits instead of one if you didn't get one. Additionally, it only makes sense that a hit becomes more hits when it actually hits.

By that logic, you can't use Smoke Launchers if you can't fire either, which was FAQed to work with the explanation " A model can use such an ability so long as it does not shoot – it does not matter whether this is because the
model cannot shoot or it chooses not to."

"Tesla" is an ability, it's in the Abilities section of the weapons profile, it's just a mandatory one rather than optional.

I'll be the first to admit it's shaky to use the Smoke Launcher FAQ like this, but the fact they give a generic reasoning rather than totally Special Snowflaking it without reason is a good indication Tesla works even if the "model cannot hit or it chooses not to."

This seems a lot like what you wish the rules said and not what they actually say. This “by that logic” is not by the same logic. It’s not an ability used in place of shooting - it’s a weapon effect you’re cherrypicking half of and ignoring a key element of in your interpretation.

I think it's ambiguous. There's no clear RAW here-some FAQs indicate you get three hits, some don't.

Since it's not stating "Unmodified hit rolls" ala chaos daemon bloodthirsters deathbringer rule. It would be safe to assume that it applies to a hit roll after modifiers.

Now, since this is overwatch, the modifiers would be ignored for overwatch reasons because of the overwatch ruling, however for abilities and such, these modifiers still apply (a -1 on a overcharged plasma still makes a person die on overwatch on a 1 or a 2, however they still only need a 6 to hit)

Appliying tesla with a + 1 modifier would activate tesla, but still counts as a failed hit because of the rules of overwatch( the roll was a 5 but modified is a six, which overwatch doesn't care about)

So in conclusion, yes. tesla would activate on a 5+ on overwatch with a +1 to hit, but the shots all still miss cause it's only a 5

mchammadad wrote:
Since it's not stating "Unmodified hit rolls" ala chaos daemon bloodthirsters deathbringer rule. It would be safe to assume that it applies to a hit roll after modifiers.

Now, since this is overwatch, the modifiers would be ignored for overwatch reasons because of the overwatch ruling, however for abilities and such, these modifiers still apply (a -1 on a overcharged plasma still makes a person die on overwatch on a 1 or a 2, however they still only need a 6 to hit)

Appliying tesla with a + 1 modifier would activate tesla, but still counts as a failed hit because of the rules of overwatch( the roll was a 5 but modified is a six, which overwatch doesn't care about)

So in conclusion, yes. tesla would activate on a 5+ on overwatch with a +1 to hit, but the shots all still miss cause it's only a 5

I think that this is the correct method.

You roll a 5 with a +1 modifier, so it counts as a 6. You get 3 additional hits, so now you have 4 hits of a 5. All of them fail because none of them were unmodified 6s.

The smoke launchers can be used because they are instead of shooting, they're not a replacement for shooting. You don't need to be able to shoot to use them, you simply need to not shoot. Tesla, on the other hand, needs a hit roll of a 6+ to multiply. You don't need to successfully hit in order to proc the extra hits, but those extra hits will have the same fate as the original hit and will therefore miss.