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Disciple of Fate wrote: Well there is also the news he wants to up tariffs on China from 10 to 25 percent. That's going to cut into his growth numbers even worse. Made in China, now 1/4th more expensive to your regular American.
I wonder what that will do to Chinese growth....
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Steelmage99 wrote: In light of the recent talk about voter IDs in this thread.
President Trumps claims/thinks that going grocery shopping requires picture ID.
Specifically at 0:30
Pre-dementia? Moron? Charlatan?
This is classic Democratic Party™ press coverage. The media doesn’t want to deal with the fact that Trump’s point was correct. We have to show ID for all kinds of things.... everyone has identification. He was making the point we should require ID to vote. Basically red meat for his supporters at that rally.
If you take him literally did Trump commit a speako? Not really, unless you're unusually pandentic. Trump wasn’t making a specific point about groceries, he used groceries as an example. He continued to say that “You go out and you want to buy anything.... you need ID and you need your picture.” Its obvious that Trump was talking about paying for purchases (groceries or otherwise) with a check or credit card. Yes, Trump is so old that he knows when people actually paid for things with checks. Hell, I remember it was common mere 15 years ago (and still see it every once awhile today) paying groceries with a check. If you pay with credit card the vendor may ask for an ID as well. This isn't uncommon.
The problem is that this feeds into the #FakeNews narrative that the media is reporting in obvious bad faith by deliberately pretending to NOT understand Trump’s arguments, and doggedly refusing to engage the point he was making... which is, identification is required all the time, we all have identification or can easily get it, the only reason not to require it for voting is a desire to enable voter fraud. By playing dumb, the media can avoid discussing the whole requiring IDs when voting altogether.
I remember this same argument being used to defend his ideas of a border wall and the multitdudes of other times people were saying his points were salient only for it to be "No this is what he actually believes."
Sorry not falling for that again. I do think this is what he means, the guy doesn't do his own groceries, he never has. I have never in my entire life been asked to show my ID card. Not once for shopping, because the way to ID someone is with their signature. But for voting yes you need to have your ID that is common sense. But the main reason voter fraud does happen (though albiet extremely rarer thanyou made it out to be) is because someone votes twice.
But that is not what he is saying.
So no whembly your stretching truth again to fit the narrative that has been constructed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/02 17:13:00
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
The world is moving towards not only acknowledging the very real threat posed by Climate Change, but is actually taking steps towards adopting cleaner energy, etc. while we march backwards instead of leading the movement through innovating and exporting of the technology the world wants. Just a stupid, crooked, self-serving, ignorant feth is all he is.
The world is moving towards not only acknowledging the very real threat posed by Climate Change, but is actually taking steps towards adopting cleaner energy, etc. while we march backwards instead of leading the movement through innovating and exporting of the technology the world wants. Just a stupid, crooked, self-serving, ignorant feth is all he is.
because he has been lobbied again and again by coal and gas people to stop the transfer to green energy so they can stay relevant. This is also to disempower the United States, the Trump Administration has walked over policies and reversed entirely necessary policies cause "Erm I said so."
Without thoughts of what they might have on the future.
The EPA and Trump Administration have fallen flat on their face. This is nothing new.
full article :
Aug. 02--WASHINGTON -- The Trump administration Thursday pushed ahead with plans to unravel the federal government's most effective action to fight climate change -- aggressive fuel economy standards aimed at getting the nation's cars and trucks to average more than 50 miles per gallon by 2025.
After months of discussion and drafts, the Environmental Protection Agency and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration formally unveiled their plan to rewrite those rules and replace them with ones so lax even automakers are wary.
The administration's proposal would freeze miles-per-gallon targets in 2020. It would also move to end California's current power to set its own, higher standards.
The administration's proposal asserts that "attempting to solve climate change, even in part" is "fundamentally different" from the Clean Air Act's "original purpose of addressing smog-related air quality problems."
The administration's proposal could set off a high-stakes legal battle with California and the 13 other states that follow its more stringent rules. Those states argue the Clean Air Act empowers them to keep the Obama-era fuel economy standards in place in their markets.
The states following California's lead account for more than a third of the vehicles sold nationwide.
The Trump administration proposal could also invalidate California's mandate that automakers sell a certain number of electric vehicles.
The rollback would undermine efforts by California and several other states to meet commitments the U.S. made in the Paris agreement on climate change. It would also worsen air quality problems in Southern California and other areas where officials are already struggling to clean smog and ease rates of asthma and other illnesses.
The release of the administration's proposal was repeatedly delayed in recent weeks as officials debated how aggressively to push. In the end, the White House approved taking a hard line, despite fears of some administration officials that their plan is based on weak evidence that will not hold up under court challenge.
The prospect of an extended legal fight has discomfited automakers, who had asked the administration to relax the Obama-era rules but don't want to see the U.S. market split in two, with different models of cars required in blue and red states.
Their unease was reflected in a statement released by Gloria Bergquist, vice president of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which urged negotiations between California and the federal government "to find a common sense solution that sets continued increases in vehicle efficiency standards while also meeting the needs of America's drivers."
The administration argues its proposal will reduce traffic fatalities by keeping the cost of vehicles down compared with the current emissions standards, which it claims are a safety hazard that "restrict the American people from being able to afford newer vehicles with more advanced safety features, better fuel economy, and associated environmental benefits."
"More realistic standards can save lives while continuing to improve the environment," said EPA Acting Administrator Andrew Wheeler.
Vehicles are the single largest cause of emissions in the U.S. that cause global warming, recently surpassing the electricity sector. The plunge in natural gas prices and other market forces have steadily lowered the climate impact of utilities, but transportation is proving more stubborn. Electric cars and trucks still account for a tiny fraction of those sold, and driver preference for SUVs, along with relatively low gas prices, have inhibited progress there.
The existing federal fuel economy targets, which were championed by California, ensure automakers keep moving toward higher efficiency vehicles, as other nations also require. The impact of freezing those targets for six years, as the administration favors, would be enormous.
The Bay Area firm Energy Innovation, which models the environmental impact of energy policies, projects the proposal would increase U.S. fuel use 20% by 2035. The firm projects the policy would cost the U.S. economy $457 billion and cause 13,000 deaths by 2050, as air quality suffers.
But the Trump administration is arguing its plan, which it dubbed Safer and Affordable Fuel Efficient Vehicles Rule, or SAFE, would save lives, replacing current standards that officials claim drive up the cost of vehicles too much and create a safety hazard for motorists.
Those assertions are refuted by thousands of pages of data the Obama administration used in developing the regulation. In scrapping it, the administration is relying on disputed modeling that projects vehicles that get more miles to the gallon would lead motorists to drive more frequently, thus increasing the number of traffic fatalities.
The administration also projects the efficiency rules would drive up the price of cars enough to push some buyers out of the market, leaving them to remain in older vehicles lacking life-saving new technologies like assisted braking and blind spot warning.
The argument may prove a tough sell in court, where attorneys for states and environmental groups will come armed with a wealth of data undermining it.
"The fleet of new vehicles today is the most fuel efficient ever, and they have gotten safer every year," said Luke Tonachel, director of clean vehicles and fuels at the Natural Resources Defense Council. "These arguments are not new. They have failed before."
Federal data show the increased cost consumers would pay for the more efficient vehicles is dwarfed by the amount of money they would save at the pump, undermining the argument that drivers will stay in older, unsafe vehicles, advocates for the tougher rules say.
At a May meeting in the White House, auto firms appealed to Trump to tap the brakes on the administration's aggressive rollback plan. He assured them he would, ordering his EPA chief and Transportation secretary to try to broker a deal with California.
Those negotiations have gone nowhere. California is confident the administration has no legal authority to revoke the waiver it has been granted under the Clean Air Act allowing it to keep the Obama-era rules in place. In May, California and 16 other states filed a preemptive lawsuit arguing the rollback would be illegal.
"There is no precedent for revoking California's waiver," said Dan Becker, director of the Safe Climate Campaign of the Center for Auto Safety, an advocacy group in Washington. "There is no provision in the Clean Air Act for revoking a waiver... The world is looking to California to hold its ground."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/02 17:16:44
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Well there is also the news he wants to up tariffs on China from 10 to 25 percent. That's going to cut into his growth numbers even worse. Made in China, now 1/4th more expensive to your regular American.
Worker at migrant children detention centre arrested for abuse A worker at an Arizona detention centre for migrant children has been arrested after a teenage girl told police her roommate was abused by him.
Police say the victim is a 14-year-old girl who was being housed at the centre for undocumented child migrants.
The facility, run by Texas-based non-profit Southwest Key, declined to say whether the girl had been separated from her family at the border.
First Lady Melania Trump visited the child detention facility last June.
Fernando Magaz Negrete, 32, is accused of molesting the girl several times on the night of 27 June, after he entered the bedroom that she shares with two other migrants.
Police say he admitted to kissing and groping her when he was questioned after the alleged abuse was reported by the girl's roommate on 25 July.
According to a police report, the witness who reported the abuse saw Mr Negrete kissing the victim "three or four times" throughout the night, and touching her inappropriately.
The witness described how the victim "pushed him away and got away from Fernando", according to the report.
He has been booked in jail on charges of molestation, aggravated assault and sexual abuse.
Southwest Key has a contract with the US federal government to house more than 1,500 migrant children in Arizona, California and Texas.
The contract, worth $458m (£351m), is part of the federal Unaccompanied Alien Children programme.
Jeff Eller, a Southwest Key spokesman, said that Mr Negrete was fired after the reported incident, but provided no further details of the incident.
"When a child tells us of inappropriate behavior, we immediately call law enforcement and start an internal investigation as appropriate," Mr Eller said in a statement.
"Southwest Key always works with law enforcement to bring the full force of the law to bear when it is warranted."
Steelmage99 wrote: In light of the recent talk about voter IDs in this thread.
President Trumps claims/thinks that going grocery shopping requires picture ID.
Specifically at 0:30
Pre-dementia? Moron? Charlatan?
This is classic Democratic Party™ press coverage. The media doesn’t want to deal with the fact that Trump’s point was correct. We have to show ID for all kinds of things.... everyone has identification. He was making the point we should require ID to vote. Basically red meat for his supporters at that rally.
If you take him literally did Trump commit a speako? Not really, unless you're unusually pandentic. Trump wasn’t making a specific point about groceries, he used groceries as an example. He continued to say that “You go out and you want to buy anything.... you need ID and you need your picture.” Its obvious that Trump was talking about paying for purchases (groceries or otherwise) with a check or credit card. Yes, Trump is so old that he knows when people actually paid for things with checks. Hell, I remember it was common mere 15 years ago (and still see it every once awhile today) paying groceries with a check. If you pay with credit card the vendor may ask for an ID as well. This isn't uncommon.
The problem is that this feeds into the #FakeNews narrative that the media is reporting in obvious bad faith by deliberately pretending to NOT understand Trump’s arguments, and doggedly refusing to engage the point he was making... which is, identification is required all the time, we all have identification or can easily get it, the only reason not to require it for voting is a desire to enable voter fraud. By playing dumb, the media can avoid discussing the whole requiring IDs when voting altogether.
I remember this same argument being used to defend his ideas of a border wall and the multitdudes of other times people were saying his points were salient only for it to be "No this is what he actually believes."
Sorry not falling for that again. I do think this is what he means, the guy doesn't do his own groceries, he never has. I have never in my entire life been asked to show my ID card. Not once for shopping, because the way to ID someone is with their signature. But for voting yes you need to have your ID that is common sense. But the main reason voter fraud does happen (though albiet extremely rarer thanyou made it out to be) is because someone votes twice.
But that is not what he is saying.
So no whembly your stretching truth again to fit the narrative that has been constructed.
Hey now, we build walls for all kinds of things, everyone has walls
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/02 17:29:14
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Steelmage99 wrote: In light of the recent talk about voter IDs in this thread.
President Trumps claims/thinks that going grocery shopping requires picture ID.
Specifically at 0:30
Pre-dementia? Moron? Charlatan?
This is classic Democratic Party™ press coverage. The media doesn’t want to deal with the fact that Trump’s point was correct. We have to show ID for all kinds of things.... everyone has identification. He was making the point we should require ID to vote. Basically red meat for his supporters at that rally.
If you take him literally did Trump commit a speako? Not really, unless you're unusually pandentic. Trump wasn’t making a specific point about groceries, he used groceries as an example.
Sure, but it was an inaccurate example that plays right into his persona of being out of touch with reality and a long history of barefaced lying on even the most trivial of things. Trump has earned coverage like this. Perhaps if the dude hadnt earned the reputation he has, and could communicate his message without making stuff up on a daily basis, people would overlook the occasional misspeaking.
In the same vein, words and specifics matter when we talk about these things, same way people get angry about "the shoulder thing that goes up".
So yeah, he flubbed a minor comment meant to reinforce a larger issue. In the grand scheme of things, it should be largely irrelevant, but Trump's history of lying about almost anything he's talking about makes it waaaaaay easier for this kind of comment to stick in the media cycle and bury his main point.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
The world is moving towards not only acknowledging the very real threat posed by Climate Change, but is actually taking steps towards adopting cleaner energy, etc. while we march backwards instead of leading the movement through innovating and exporting of the technology the world wants. Just a stupid, crooked, self-serving, ignorant feth is all he is.
The administration argues its proposal will reduce traffic fatalities by keeping the cost of vehicles down compared with the current emissions standards, which it claims are a safety hazard that "restrict the American people from being able to afford newer vehicles with more advanced safety features, better fuel economy, and associated environmental benefits."
Who the has the kind of money to just buy a new car out of the blue? Even if this caused new cars to drop a thousand off the price tag, they're still too expensive for most people to consider. Cars are investments that you try to keep around for as long as possible to make their worth, buying only when need arises and even then only older and used model (which would not be effected by this law change).
For some people claiming to be outsiders to the elite mindset, they seem to be pretty divorced from reality.
The world is moving towards not only acknowledging the very real threat posed by Climate Change, but is actually taking steps towards adopting cleaner energy, etc. while we march backwards instead of leading the movement through innovating and exporting of the technology the world wants. Just a stupid, crooked, self-serving, ignorant feth is all he is.
The administration argues its proposal will reduce traffic fatalities by keeping the cost of vehicles down compared with the current emissions standards, which it claims are a safety hazard that "restrict the American people from being able to afford newer vehicles with more advanced safety features, better fuel economy, and associated environmental benefits."
Who the has the kind of money to just buy a new car out of the blue? Even if this caused new cars to drop a thousand off the price tag, they're still too expensive for most people to consider. Cars are investments that you try to keep around for as long as possible to make their worth, buying only when need arises and even then only older and used model (which would not be effected by this law change).
For some people claiming to be outsiders to the elite mindset, they seem to be pretty divorced from reality.
It's also a desperate reach to justify their dumb as feth de-regulation. Even if you're one of those people (don't make me say it... you know the ones) who think climate change is a scam run by Big Solar or whoever, you gotta admit cleaner burning fuel is better for air quality.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
The world is moving towards not only acknowledging the very real threat posed by Climate Change, but is actually taking steps towards adopting cleaner energy, etc. while we march backwards instead of leading the movement through innovating and exporting of the technology the world wants. Just a stupid, crooked, self-serving, ignorant feth is all he is.
I wouldn't put that on trump. Oil companies are to blame for that. It's no different than the lies they spread ignoring the science of lead in gasoline being a serious hazard. They are the richest companies planet. Trump is a puppet - oil companies the puppeteer. There is actually a fringe inside the republican party that thinks climate change is some kind of socialist conspiracy...It's really too bad I have to support this party - ultimately policy is not going to drive change here anyways. Private industry and technological development is going to put oil companies out of business eventually.
Ironically. No matter how bad trump hates it - "Space Force" is going to have to utilize solar on their ships/satellites. .
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also - on trade war with china.
China is the largest exporter of goods in the world and the US the largest consumer. To imagine that we don't make a compromise here is just purely idiotic. A deal will be made or we both lose lots of money.
Trump knows this. China knows this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/02 17:47:03
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
The world is moving towards not only acknowledging the very real threat posed by Climate Change, but is actually taking steps towards adopting cleaner energy, etc. while we march backwards instead of leading the movement through innovating and exporting of the technology the world wants. Just a stupid, crooked, self-serving, ignorant feth is all he is.
I wouldn't put that on trump. Oil companies are to blame for that. It's no different than the lies they spread ignoring the science of lead in gasoline being a serious hazard. They are the richest companies planet. Trump is a puppet - oil companies the puppeteer. There is actually a fringe inside the republican party that thinks climate change is some kind of socialist conspiracy...It's really too bad I have to support this party - ultimately policy is not going to drive change here anyways. Private industry and technological development is going to put oil companies out of business eventually.
Ironically. No matter how bad trump hates it - "Space Force" is going to have to utilize solar on their ships/satellites. .
Trump himself thinks Climate Change is a conspiracy. He loves his wackadoodle theories, does Trump. Climate Change, hordes of militarized Mexican criminal anchor babies, secret Kenyan muslims, it's all very funny/sad.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Xenomancers wrote: I don't know if it's intentional or not. You seem to be missing the worst Obama years from your chart.
Wait, are you basing the idea that the economy's growth has doubled under Trump by artificially restricting it to the first few years Obama was president (when he inherited a recession) instead of the later, normal growth?
By that metric I am a better basketball player than Michael Jordan, if you only count the times I scored a free throw and the times he missed.
I just pointed out a piece of a graph was missing. So much conflicting data out there on the GDP. I am not even sure how to read it anymore. Obama had roughly 2% growth average and borrowed 10 trillion dollors. Trump is now close to 4% and only borrowed a trillion. Is that about accurate?
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
The world is moving towards not only acknowledging the very real threat posed by Climate Change, but is actually taking steps towards adopting cleaner energy, etc. while we march backwards instead of leading the movement through innovating and exporting of the technology the world wants. Just a stupid, crooked, self-serving, ignorant feth is all he is.
I wouldn't put that on trump. Oil companies are to blame for that. It's no different than the lies they spread ignoring the science of lead in gasoline being a serious hazard. They are the richest companies planet. Trump is a puppet - oil companies the puppeteer. There is actually a fringe inside the republican party that thinks climate change is some kind of socialist conspiracy...It's really too bad I have to support this party - ultimately policy is not going to drive change here anyways. Private industry and technological development is going to put oil companies out of business eventually.
Ironically. No matter how bad trump hates it - "Space Force" is going to have to utilize solar on their ships/satellites. .
Trump himself thinks Climate Change is a conspiracy. He loves his wackadoodle theories, does Trump. Climate Change, hordes of militarized Mexican criminal anchor babies, secret Kenyan muslims, it's all very funny/sad.
Remember when Trump thought climate change was a Chinese hoax?
Xenomancers wrote: I don't know if it's intentional or not. You seem to be missing the worst Obama years from your chart.
Wait, are you basing the idea that the economy's growth has doubled under Trump by artificially restricting it to the first few years Obama was president (when he inherited a recession) instead of the later, normal growth?
By that metric I am a better basketball player than Michael Jordan, if you only count the times I scored a free throw and the times he missed.
I just pointed out a piece of a graph was missing. So much conflicting data out there on the GDP. I am not even sure how to read it anymore. Obama had roughly 2% growth average and borrowed 10 trillion dollors. Trump is now close to 4% and only borrowed a trillion. Is that about accurate?
That 4% is a one off quarter spike, his average is 2.9%, slightly below the US 3.0% average after WW2
Also take into account that Obama had to borrow more heavily than Trump has to, as federal taxes also took a significant hit due to the recession, while spending had to go up.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/08/02 17:57:31
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
The same poster who will take a single sentence, sometimes even less, from an Obama or Clinton speech to argue that they said something different than what they said, now goes on to use all the things that Trump didn't say to explain what he really said.
That's why trying to argue with people who place Team above Facts is pointless and just wastes the time of people who have to read the endless quotes from people who haven't learned to ignore them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Deficit and Debt:
(Doesn't account for the new proposed cuts to Capital Gains)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/02 18:09:04
d-usa wrote: The same poster who will take a single sentence, sometimes even less, from an Obama or Clinton speech to argue that they said something different than what they said, now goes on to use all the things that Trump didn't say to explain what he really said.
That's why trying to argue with people who place Team above Facts is pointless and just wastes the time of people who have to read the endless quotes from people who haven't learned to ignore them.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
We also need to be careful when we look at raw numbers and fail to take the circumstances into account. If we ignore the circumstances that contributed to these numbers it's easy to come up with all kinds of weird claims.
If numbers are all that matters, it's pretty clear that Franklin D Roosevelt's presidency was an abstract failure since ~28% of all military deaths happened during his terms in office.
d-usa wrote: The same poster who will take a single sentence, sometimes even less, from an Obama or Clinton speech to argue that they said something different than what they said, now goes on to use all the things that Trump didn't say to explain what he really said.
That's why trying to argue with people who place Team above Facts is pointless and just wastes the time of people who have to read the endless quotes from people who haven't learned to ignore them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Deficit and Debt:
(Doesn't account for the new proposed cuts to Capital Gains)
Interesting data. I want to look deeper into it.
You have to admit that the attacks on trumps word choice during public speaking are getting absurd. His point...you need an ID to do a lot of things - why shouldn't you need one to vote? It's actually a really good argument. So good in fact - you really can't argue against without some BS argument like..."but some poeople can't afford ID's" Which I can easily counter with "lets make your first ID every couple of years free".
There is literally no reason you shouldn't need to prove your identity with a photo ID to vote. More worried about Russian hacking than non american literally voting in our elections.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Interesting data. I want to look deeper into it.
You have to admit that the attacks on trumps word choice during public speaking are getting absurd. His point...you need an ID to do a lot of things - why shouldn't you need one to vote? It's actually a really good argument. So good in fact - you really can't argue against without some BS argument like..."but some poeople can't afford ID's" Which I can easily counter with "lets make your first ID every couple of years free".
It's really not getting absurd and it really is not a good argument. The only reason you need an ID for a grocery store is buying alcohol or tobacco--things that require an ID to confirm your age.
It's amazing though how much people will argue things that aren't there. He said you need ID for groceries. You don't--not unless buying controlled/age restricted items.
There is literally no reason you shouldn't need to prove your identity with a photo ID to vote. More worried about Russian hacking than non american literally voting in our elections.
Because non-Americans can't get on the voting rolls without someone screwing up there or massively falsified information--to the point of which them being tried for voter fraud is going to be a joke compared to the other crimes.
Non-Americans with a photo ID that are on the voting rolls can still vote.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, Russian election interference is something that is known to have occurred and the sheer scale of it is still unknown. Yet for whatever reason we still have people like you focused on the nonsense that is Voter ID while measures to protect the integrity of elections are being left by the wayside.
d-usa wrote: The same poster who will take a single sentence, sometimes even less, from an Obama or Clinton speech to argue that they said something different than what they said, now goes on to use all the things that Trump didn't say to explain what he really said.
That's why trying to argue with people who place Team above Facts is pointless and just wastes the time of people who have to read the endless quotes from people who haven't learned to ignore them.
Everyone knew where Trump was going on his spiel... if you want to hold him accountable simply because words matter? Yeah, of course... I'd agree with that. My point was the dogpile by the media easily feeds into the tired #FakeNews canard Trump and his supporters espouses.
The full context of Obama's "If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen." You really can't spin that because he was trying to justify his stance to ask the business/wealthy to pay a little bit more in taxes to fund additional government programs. Yet, that slate author above is right in the sense that poeple heard, ”You don’t get credit for your hard work.”
There's an old adage in politics: How can you tell when a campaign knows it has stepped into it? It shifts the spin defense and starts complaining about context. "You didn't build that" had legs for months/years... I'd bet tomorrow, Trumps grocery blub would be forgotten (prolly because he'll say/do something outrageous again ).
Disciple of Fate wrote: Well there is also the news he wants to up tariffs on China from 10 to 25 percent. That's going to cut into his growth numbers even worse. Made in China, now 1/4th more expensive to your regular American.
I wonder what that will do to Chinese growth....
You have identified why trade wars are not good and are not easy to win.
US growth stalls. China growth stalls. Australian growth stalls because China needs less raw materials. Everyone else's growth stalls as international trade slows down.
"Winning" consists of ending up more impoverished that if you hadn't gone into the war, but less impoverished than the other guy, hopefully.
At least the mis-western farmers have got their illegal $12 billion state subsidy to fall back on.
Xenomancers wrote: His point...you need an ID to do a lot of things - why shouldn't you need one to vote? It's actually a really good argument. So good in fact - you really can't argue against without some BS argument like..."but some poeople can't afford ID's" Which I can easily counter with "lets make your first ID every couple of years free".
There is zero evidence that the single type of voting fraud (claiming to be someone else and voting as them) happens at a non-negligible rate. We're talking about single-digit known cases, at most. It's funny how the supposed small-government conservatives will embrace a proposal that increases government power and imposes additional regulations, with a benefit that is questionable at best, just as soon as it fits their narrative.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Xenomancers wrote: You have to admit that the attacks on trumps word choice during public speaking are getting absurd. His point...you need an ID to do a lot of things - why shouldn't you need one to vote? It's actually a really good argument. So good in fact - you really can't argue against without some BS argument like..."but some poeople can't afford ID's" Which I can easily counter with "lets make your first ID every couple of years free".
There is literally no reason you shouldn't need to prove your identity with a photo ID to vote. More worried about Russian hacking than non american literally voting in our elections.
Believe it typically falls under the idea of being a poll tax.
Make it free and readily, aggressively, available to people and I honestly don't care.
That said, went through the bull involved in getting data on my card, just saying you need one right now is not going to work for anything but voter suppression.
Xenomancers wrote: You have to admit that the attacks on trumps word choice during public speaking are getting absurd. His point...you need an ID to do a lot of things - why shouldn't you need one to vote? It's actually a really good argument. So good in fact - you really can't argue against without some BS argument like..."but some poeople can't afford ID's" Which I can easily counter with "lets make your first ID every couple of years free".
There is literally no reason you shouldn't need to prove your identity with a photo ID to vote. More worried about Russian hacking than non american literally voting in our elections.
Believe it typically falls under the idea of being a poll tax.
Make it free and readily, aggressively, available to people and I honestly don't care.
That said, went through the bull involved in getting data on my card, just saying you need one right now is not going to work for anything but voter suppression.
Yeah, the problem with voter ID laws is that they are often accompanied by, totally coincidentally, increased costs in getting those IDs or reduction in working hours (or even closures of) the places you can go to get those IDs, reduction in which IDs are acceptable, etc. In theory, I'm not against voter ID. In practice, I'm against the actions taken to prevent people from getting those IDs, or the lack of effort made to provide those IDs.
Anyway, this happened today.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/02/politics/pope-death-penalty-us-politics/index.html In short, it now appears to be official Catholic policy that the death penalty is no longer allowed. I wonder what effect that will have on politics? The news I quickly googled didn't seem to have much in the way of comments yet from any politicians.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
whembly wrote: We have to show ID for all kinds of things.... everyone has identification.
whemb, let me again drag this around, this is a lot like telling me not to believe my lying eyes and ears. I work in the the field of maintaining the records of government issued ids. Let me tell you, no, no they do not.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Anyway, this happened today.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/02/politics/pope-death-penalty-us-politics/index.html In short, it now appears to be official Catholic policy that the death penalty is no longer allowed. I wonder what effect that will have on politics? The news I quickly googled didn't seem to have much in the way of comments yet from any politicians.
The US isn't catholic though we are mostly Protestant. And because of that we also have our problem of being largely purtian. Its why our sex education and science are often hated by the US populace. Because we are deeply rooted in that purtian basis.
So there won't be much change until the Protestant churches change their 100 year old positions.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
You have to admit that the attacks on trumps word choice during public speaking are getting absurd.
Compared to the attacks on everyone else's word choice?
I seem to remember Hillary and Obama being attacked on word choice all the time, and neither of them flubbed nearly as much as Trump does. Not to mention few politicians in my lifetime have lied as much or as blatantly as Trump. He blows previous record holders like Paul Ryan out of the water.
His point...you need an ID to do a lot of things - why shouldn't you need one to vote?
You do. It's called a Voter Registration card.
It's actually a really good argument.
No it's not.
The question you should be asking is why do we need photo ID to vote? Voter fraud is borderline non-existent, and where it is existent it's not because someone was impersonating someone else, but rather voting twice or voting when they're not supposed to. Even evident cases of voter impersonation generally involve using dead people to cast votes. All these issues can be solved by tightening voter rolls procedures, and do not require mass implementation of photo ID.
The only reason the GOP is pushing for photo ID is because they know that hurtle will suppress demographics that generally vote Democrat. And of course Trump supports that. His entire campaign strategy was built around suppressing the opposition's voters. Now he just wants a way to do with the law instead of with his words.
So good in fact - you really can't argue against without some BS argument like..."but some poeople can't afford ID's" Which I can easily counter with "lets make your first ID every couple of years free".
I don't have to argue against it, because it's nonsense. Furthermore, its not on me to argue against it. It's on advocates to argue for it. There is no demonstrated need for photo voter ID, so of course people are disinclined to allow a push for it when the push has nothing to do with electoral security and everything to do with a intractable political party that is desperately trying to solve it's short term demographic disadvantage by going back to Jim Crow restrictions that feign protecting the process but are really about discrimination.
And no. Trump's point was stupid, and a textbook case of his stupidity. Even Sander's walk back on it is stupid, and transparently desperate.
There is literally no reason you shouldn't need to prove your identity with a photo ID to vote. More worried about Russian hacking than non american literally voting in our elections.
Gee. I wonder why.
It's almost like there's evidence for one being a problem, while there's no evidence for the other.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/02 23:11:15
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has the kind of money to just buy a new car out of the blue? Even if this caused new cars to drop a thousand off the price tag, they're still too expensive for most people to consider. Cars are investments that you try to keep around for as long as possible to make their worth, buying only when need arises and even then only older and used model (which would not be effected by this law change).
Bonespitta's Badmoons 1441 pts. 
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