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Asmodios wrote:

Tyel wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Good to see them rewarded for putting out a good product and engaging with their player base! I'm having fun wargaming again thanks to 40K 8th. Its not perfect, but that's OK. Perfect is the enemy of good enough. I'd rather play an imperfect game than admire a perfect game.

Heck, I even looked at AoS this evening at the FLGS...Does that make me a bad wargamer?

1st Edition AoS was trash. The fact WHFB was thrown in a fire to release what amounted to scarcely a wargame, and had more akin to bashing two action figures together, was offensive in many ways.

Edition 1.5 however was moving in the right direction - and from the Wood Elves onwards (Flame dwarfs have grown on me, but they were ugly and expensive on release) the models have tended to be attractive.
I don't see why I shouldn't at least think about giving 2nd Edition a go given they have done a lot of the things I wanted them to do.

What happened to WHFB still hurts as i loved the game. Cant argue that something needed to change though as it was clearly not popular enough to continue on. I'm glad AOS seems to be headed in the right direction though and some of the minis they are putting out are amazing. I would love if they released a AOS mass battle for those of us that will never rebase 300 night goblins

Also squatting Brets was a travesty imo. Of all the times to try and inject some life back into them, it would of been the past few years due to the rampant success of GoTs which I'm sure would of inspired some people to want and make a medieval theme army.

8th ed is fine; the codices are not.

 Vankraken wrote:
Also squatting Brets was a travesty imo. Of all the times to try and inject some life back into them, it would of been the past few years due to the rampant success of GoTs which I'm sure would of inspired some people to want and make a medieval theme army.

GW's view on this has never really made sense.
I can appreciate you can't copyright knights & peasants.
I can appreciate you'd therefore get 3rd party manufacturers making counts as models for a fraction of the price.
But it also seems like a licence to print money - especially if the models look good, as it seems likely they would.

Still, never say never. If they can bring Sisters back, I don't see why Brets should never ride again - even if its with a new name and new lore.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Commercial success=/=Good game.

Monopoly is one of the most commercially successful board games. Is it good, compared to something like Pandemic? Hell no.

1. That's subjective. I've seen people call Pandemic a bad game as well.

2. Being good isn't the metric. The metric is "was 8th edition a success". Which it objectively is as 40k is more popular than its been in years and it'a making GW giant stacks of money.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Commercial success=/=Good game.

Monopoly is one of the most commercially successful board games. Is it good, compared to something like Pandemic? Hell no.

1. That's subjective. I've seen people call Pandemic a bad game as well.

2. Being good isn't the metric. The metric is "was 8th edition a success". Which it objectively is as 40k is more popular than its been in years and it'a making GW giant stacks of money.

Okay, that's fair on the subjective bit.

And I'd agree that 8th is a financial success, but a lot of people equate that to good game, which is not necessarily true.

Not only a financial success, but they just won Best Miniature Game from the Origin Awards:

http://www.originsawards.net/current-origins-award-winners/

EDIT: Apparently they won Fan Favorite as well.

 necrontyrOG wrote:
Not only a financial success, but they just won Best Miniature Game from the Origin Awards:

http://www.originsawards.net/current-origins-award-winners/

EDIT: Apparently they won Fan Favorite as well.

That's like saying if you win an Oscar you're a good movie, which is demonstrably false.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 necrontyrOG wrote:
Not only a financial success, but they just won Best Miniature Game from the Origin Awards:

http://www.originsawards.net/current-origins-award-winners/

EDIT: Apparently they won Fan Favorite as well.

That's like saying if you win an Oscar you're a good movie, which is demonstrably false.

You spelled subjectively wrong.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 necrontyrOG wrote:
Not only a financial success, but they just won Best Miniature Game from the Origin Awards:

http://www.originsawards.net/current-origins-award-winners/

EDIT: Apparently they won Fan Favorite as well.

That's like saying if you win an Oscar you're a good movie, which is demonstrably false.

That's like saying a movie brought in record sales, has amazing critic and fan review numbers, won an Oscar and is still really bad.....Which is a laughable statement.

Sales is more or less a reflection of good advertising - critics are mostly bought and paid for - and fan reviews are as well.

If Oscar awards are given based on this criteria they are bought as well.

Again, Sales does not make a product good. And saying "reviews" make 8th good ignore the context that GW could have just made a box of flesh eating scarab beetles that were infected with Super Syphilis and it would still have reviewed better than 7th edition.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Again, Sales does not make a product good. And saying "reviews" make 8th good ignore the context that GW could have just made a box of flesh eating scarab beetles that were infected with Super Syphilis and it would still have reviewed better than 7th edition.

The topic isn't about if it's good. It's about if it's a success.

So reviewers are sell-outs, popularity and sales don't matter, and winning prizes from judges and fans mean nothing... do you have more mental gymnastics to justify that 8th sucks?

Seriously guys, could you be more hipsters?

"Man, thats so mainstream, its all so overrated!"

Can't people just admit that even if they dislike 8th it as actual value for a ton of people that find joy on is virtudes and qualities, without being whiteknights that can't see the flaws?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Sales is more or less a reflection of good advertising - critics are mostly bought and paid for - and fan reviews are as well.

If Oscar awards are given based on this criteria they are bought as well.

So let me get this straight
The sales numbers cant be trusted because an advertising campaign could be the cause for all of them
Critic reviews cannot be trusted because they could have been brought under the table
Fan reviews cannot be trusted because they could be bought or fake

But random Dakka user who says 8th is actually the worst thing ever....... That's what we should go on?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Again, Sales does not make a product good. And saying "reviews" make 8th good ignore the context that GW could have just made a box of flesh eating scarab beetles that were infected with Super Syphilis and it would still have reviewed better than 7th edition.

see above post. I just wanna make sure that i should rate the opinion of 5-10 Dakka posters higher than sales, critics and fans

 Galas wrote:
So reviewers are sell-outs, popularity and sales don't matter, and winning prizes from judges and fans mean nothing... do you have more mental gymnastics to justify that 8th sucks?

Heh.

During the 'summer of discontent' a few years back, when gw could do no right (for a lot of reasons), privateer press was the mover and shaker in the industry, and it felt they could do nothing wrong. Mk2 was a runaway success and was scooping up players by the trainload, and furthermore, this was acknowledged by the industry through various 'game of the year' awards, and so on and so forth. I remember these were trumpeted as the heralding in of a new dawn at the time, and proof positive that privateer press were the best company making the best damned game, everyone should get on the hyped train and gw could go swallow a brick.

But when gw win the award...

Honestly, all this shows me is haters are gonna hate. Gw could cure cancer tomorrow and their haters would find a way of twisting it round. and throwing it back at them.

Deadnight wrote:

 Galas wrote:
So reviewers are sell-outs, popularity and sales don't matter, and winning prizes from judges and fans mean nothing... do you have more mental gymnastics to justify that 8th sucks?

Heh.

During the 'summer of discontent' a few years back, when gw could do no right (for a lot of reasons), privateer press was the mover and shaker in the industry, and it felt they could do nothing wrong. Mk2 was a runaway success and was scooping up players by the trainload, and furthermore, this was acknowledged by the industry through various 'game of the year' awards, and so on and so forth. I remember these were trumpeted as the heralding in of a new dawn at the time, and proof positive that privateer press were the best company making the best damned game, everyone should get on the hyped train and gw could go swallow a brick.

But when gw win the award...

Honestly, all this shows me is haters are gonna hate. Gw could cure cancer tomorrow and their haters would find a way of twisting it round. and throwing it back at them.

How could GW cure cancer! Do they not care about overpopulation and the Climate! REEEEEEEEEE! They just did this so there would be more people to buy their terrible game that nobody likes!

8th edition is selling well. Doesn't mean it's a good game, just means people have low standards and are happy to embrace barely passable rules if it allows them to push cool spacemen around a table.

Asmodios wrote:

So let me get this straight
The sales numbers cant be trusted because an advertising campaign could be the cause for all of them
Critic reviews cannot be trusted because they could have been brought under the table
Fan reviews cannot be trusted because they could be bought or fake

But random Dakka user who says 8th is actually the worst thing ever....... That's what we should go on?

That's why we have the Ignore function on Dakka. You get to ignore the people who think that.

I think 8th only had to be 'good enough' to get the GW momentum wagon back up to speed, and their market saturation would do the rest

The general gist of my GW vs The Rest seemed to be people would rather get consistent games of 40k in than have to hunt down players for 'better' games, plus you can usually skip an edition or three and come back to 40k something not many systems bar MTG can boast

I’m glad that GW is doing well, and I’ve personally had a lot of fun with 8th edition with my friends. Hopefully the trend will continue

lord_blackfang wrote:8th edition is selling well. Doesn't mean it's a good game, just means people have low standards and are happy to embrace barely passable rules if it allows them to push cool spacemen around a table.

BaconCatBug wrote:

 necrontyrOG wrote:
Not only a financial success, but they just won Best Miniature Game from the Origin Awards:

http://www.originsawards.net/current-origins-award-winners/

EDIT: Apparently they won Fan Favorite as well.

That's like saying if you win an Oscar you're a good movie, which is demonstrably false.

What do you consider to be good rulesets? I’ve always been drawn to Infinity, but it’s hard to get a group started. Even harder now that everyone(including myself) wants to play GW games.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

So let me get this straight
The sales numbers cant be trusted because an advertising campaign could be the cause for all of them
Critic reviews cannot be trusted because they could have been brought under the table
Fan reviews cannot be trusted because they could be bought or fake

But random Dakka user who says 8th is actually the worst thing ever....... That's what we should go on?

That's why we have the Ignore function on Dakka. You get to ignore the people who think that.

Ignore is only useful for people who post literally nothing positive. Even BaconCatBug occasionally has something useful to say. Not often, but he does.

Besides, silencing/ignoring people with opposing view points is a terrible way to live your life. Sure when people post political stuff on Facebook I immediately unfollow them but this is 40k. It's more important than politics.

This thread is hilarious. Is there anyone out there we can trust other than a selection of enlightened dakka posters?

Or maybe the enlightened dakka posters are wrong. And at this point that seems to most likely.

I just wanna point out to people 8th has brought tonnes of players back from a gaming 40k haitus.

Me and my friend stopped end of 5th because the game literally became pay to win. "Ohhhh look at this new giant monster model we have" and if you bought it it was OP and pretty much guaranteed a victory. Then the next army would get their even more OP bigger monster, so on so forth.

It became greed workshop. 8th however if people stop looking through rose tinted glasses is much superior to any edition in the past whilst I've been playing the Hobby, since 2003/2004.

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
I just wanna point out to people 8th has brought tonnes of players back from a gaming 40k haitus.

Me and my friend stopped end of 5th because the game literally became pay to win. "Ohhhh look at this new giant monster model we have" and if you bought it it was OP and pretty much guaranteed a victory. Then the next army would get their even more OP bigger monster, so on so forth.

It became greed workshop. 8th however if people stop looking through rose tinted glasses is much superior to any edition in the past whilst I've been playing the Hobby, since 2003/2004.

Yeah man, I know it was like if you didn't run out and buy a Taurox your Imperial Guard army was complete crap!

every edition introduces new units sometimes they're power houses othertimes they're not. we tend to focus on the power houses because they stand out in memory more, something new arrives on the scene, dramaticly shifts the meta and we remember it. othertimes something new arrives and just sputters on launch and is forgotten about.. How many people for example even remember that the Space Marine Hunter is a thing? or the IG Taurox?

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
I think 8th only had to be 'good enough' to get the GW momentum wagon back up to speed, and their market saturation would do the rest

This sums it up right here. GW, even at its worst during 7th, had a large number of inactive customers who were begging for any excuse to get back into the game. All they had to do was publish something that even had a superficial appearance of being an improvement over 7th, throw on some basic use of social media that any company in 2018 should be capable of, and wait for sales numbers to inevitably rise as those inactive customers came back to give GW another chance. 8th is still a terrible game with inexcusable flaws, but because people have reasons to believe it's better than 7th it's a win for GW. The real test will be how long GW can keep it going once they run out of new-codex spikes and have to sustain 8th over the long run. Can they continue to grow, or will they reach a point where their dedicated fans have come back but that's it? Will the game ever become a selling point on its own merits, rather than a broken mess you slog through because you love the fluff/painting aspect of the hobby? That seems much more doubtful.

I'm glad GW are doing well. The releases and codexes have been coming at a phenomenal pace, AoS getting new stuff/edition and frequent FAQ/adjustments being made.

Is it completely balanced with watertight writing? No.

Is it actually fun to play? In my eyes yes.

Every game I've played this edition has been fun. No OP units that simply stomp armies, no broken formations and rules that are easy to learn mean I'm having a blast. I'm sorry that 8th didn't cater to your specific wants and yes some codex books are worse than others (seriously, was the writer of the GK codex drunk!?) and some stuff is a little too good, but with chapter approved, and regular adjustments from GW themselves, it's only minor annoyances.

To say that 8th hasn't been a success is wrong.

This thread made my morning. So many people who just seem to have ground their axe of hatred for GW so much that all that is left is the handle.

8th isn't perfect but it's good, better than they have had in years, we haven't seen price hikes recently that I am aware of, and GW is actually interacting with it's community like never before.

All of that and you're *STILL* upset? Who ever said that if GW cured cancer people would still be upset is spot on. Don't like the new rules don't play, it's the adult thing to do and it's what I did in 6th and 7th, I didn't like the rules and balance so I shelved my IG and DA, played other stuff and waited.

Asmodios wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Sales is more or less a reflection of good advertising - critics are mostly bought and paid for - and fan reviews are as well.

If Oscar awards are given based on this criteria they are bought as well.

So let me get this straight
The sales numbers cant be trusted because an advertising campaign could be the cause for all of them
Critic reviews cannot be trusted because they could have been brought under the table
Fan reviews cannot be trusted because they could be bought or fake

But random Dakka user who says 8th is actually the worst thing ever....... That's what we should go on?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Again, Sales does not make a product good. And saying "reviews" make 8th good ignore the context that GW could have just made a box of flesh eating scarab beetles that were infected with Super Syphilis and it would still have reviewed better than 7th edition.

see above post. I just wanna make sure that i should rate the opinion of 5-10 Dakka posters higher than sales, critics and fans

I was speaking more about movies and Oscar awards. Someone made that analogy. It's not directly related to GW sales in the same way. As many other posters have points out. All GW needs to do to get sales is release content. During 7th edition when the rules were the most busted that they ever had been. They were getting huge sales numbers when they came out with formations. How many freaking razorbacks do you think Gladius formation sold them? The have such a loyal base of customers that will always buy their stuff. GW can't fail - even with failed rules for their games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vonjankmon wrote:
This thread made my morning. So many people who just seem to have ground their axe of hatred for GW so much that all that is left is the handle.

8th isn't perfect but it's good, better than they have had in years, we haven't seen price hikes recently that I am aware of, and GW is actually interacting with it's community like never before.

All of that and you're *STILL* upset? Who ever said that if GW cured cancer people would still be upset is spot on. Don't like the new rules don't play, it's the adult thing to do and it's what I did in 6th and 7th, I didn't like the rules and balance so I shelved my IG and DA, played other stuff and waited.

The codex balance is a joke. That means the game is not good.

Codex balance isn't bad outside of what is essentially the first set of them seemingly being designed for an environment where most people were still playing Index armies.