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I'm sure there is a kind of postal service that both civilians and Guardsmen can use to send small packages around. Perhaps not galaxy-wide Imperial Post Service, but in more peaceful parts of the galaxy at the sector/subsector level, there can be a postal service.

Or maybe the Imperial merchant fleet offers courier services.

This is the issue with 40k lore, civilian part of the lore is frequently under-represented. The service can be even private as there is surely a lot of private subjects wealthy enough set up a logistics company that can eventually load up few tons of letters and ship them along to their target destination, where they get loaded to other freighters and this goes until it reaches its destination many months/years/decades later. Or gets lost. Or destroyed. Or opened by a nosy worker looking for valuables. Or any other grimdark fate.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
A lot of the fiction is meant to show only the negative. Guardsmen not wanting to retire because they would be left on the nearest world, settlement rights only given to a single regiment on the planet (which in numbers per regiment is just flat out stupid), the idea that due to space and warp travel veterans have no living family left at home ( I can't remember which book it was, a veteran is talking about how he knows his wife back home is dead because the money he has earned hasn't been withdrawn in years(I don't think the writer put a lot of thought into how a veteran was able to see his bank statements but not have normal contact with his wife)) so they just keep signing on. Letters from home to the grunts doesn't really seem to fit in the 40K narrative.

I think the book is Imperial Glory, with the consolidated Brimstone regiment.

The "...of Elysia" audio books have Elysian regiments returning home to resupply and train new recruits - but that might be because of their specialist nature.

Also, in one of the recent titan books (Warlord: Fury of the God Machine, I think), the Guard regiment had barracks on their homeworld.

There is ofc room for any kind of guard service in 40K, just as worlds can be ruled in almost any fashion as long as they pay the tithes and worship the Emperor. A Hive world that "recruits" and equips Hive scum is probably all too happy if they never return, but other worlds do it in other ways.

The one mentioned in Eisenhorn required 20 years of service (IIRC), then allowed the survivors to retire back home. And the Indentured Regiments from Jopall, mentioned in the Armageddon campaign material, pretty much expect to get back home. Their world is owned and ruled by corporations that keep track of how much it cost to raise and school you, then ask you to repay it with work once of age. IG service is a very popular option as it has one of the best repayment rates for time spent.

The ones supposedly able to retire are probably also provided some sort of possibility to send a letter home once in a while, if for no other reason than keeping morale up. A crate of paper (or dataslates) should be small enough and cheap enough to ship back that it doesn't take the Comissar many saved bolt rounds to cover it.

In Imperial Glory, the regiment is on what could be its last mission before the regiment settles the new world, and a handful of officers are taken back to Brimstone with the regimental colours to raise a new regiment in the current ones name.

They have no way to communicate with home however, as stated up the thread one guy realises his wife is dead because she's no longer withdrawing money from his account.

phillv85 wrote:
In Imperial Glory, the regiment is on what could be its last mission before the regiment settles the new world, and a handful of officers are taken back to Brimstone with the regimental colours to raise a new regiment in the current ones name.

They have no way to communicate with home however, as stated up the thread one guy realises his wife is dead because she's no longer withdrawing money from his account.

Thanks, it was indeed Imperial Glory.

Although it just doubles down on the grimderp, because each time his wife withdrew money they would have had to send bank statements from Brimstone to whatever warzone he served (because he got those). When you think about it, if a grunt on the ground get regular bank statements how is it possible that he never ever was able to communicate with his wife? I mean you could say he wasn't important enough to be able to communicate, yet he was important enough that space was allocated on ships to give him a piece of paper with his balance on it? Plus the fact that for money to be available to his wife, the account would have to have had knowledge that he wasn't KIA years ago. So there is a stream of relatively insignificant information going both ways, but no possible way to personally communicate?

A lot of (Guard) fluff tends to fall apart when looked at it closely, because it makes no sense. Like I mentioned before, a regiment settling down on a pacified world sounds nice, until the fluff mentions its a single regiment and those number at most 10K troops on a hostile population of millions you just violently beat down.

Enough grimdark to go around in Imperial Glory too, the Ork bits are very nice though.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
In Imperial Glory, the regiment is on what could be its last mission before the regiment settles the new world, and a handful of officers are taken back to Brimstone with the regimental colours to raise a new regiment in the current ones name.

They have no way to communicate with home however, as stated up the thread one guy realises his wife is dead because she's no longer withdrawing money from his account.

Thanks, it was indeed Imperial Glory.

Although it just doubles down on the grimderp, because each time his wife withdrew money they would have had to send bank statements from Brimstone to whatever warzone he served (because he got those). When you think about it, if a grunt on the ground get regular bank statements how is it possible that he never ever was able to communicate with his wife? I mean you could say he wasn't important enough to be able to communicate, yet he was important enough that space was allocated on ships to give him a piece of paper with his balance on it? Plus the fact that for money to be available to his wife, the account would have to have had knowledge that he wasn't KIA years ago. So there is a stream of relatively insignificant information going both ways, but no possible way to personally communicate?

A lot of (Guard) fluff tends to fall apart when looked at it closely, because it makes no sense. Like I mentioned before, a regiment settling down on a pacified world sounds nice, until the fluff mentions its a single regiment and those number at most 10K troops on a hostile population of millions you just violently beat down.

Enough grimdark to go around in Imperial Glory too, the Ork bits are very nice though.

Well, if you assume it is the bank who is sending the bank statements, it seems probable that the bank would be wealthy enough to deliver mail to its customers by spaceship, while the guardsman is not wealthy enough to afford to send a letter by spaceship.

Yes, but then we're talking about a bank either hiring a civilian ship to deliver said statements or being allocated a spot on a warship/supply ship going specifically from the home planet to whatever warzone they're at.

I mean the amount of money involved in delevering said statement (tens of thousands of guardsmen spread across dozens of worlds with any regularity for just a single world) would be incredibly wasteful and totally counterproductive to how such an institution operates. It would be out of money in no time.

If all the above takes place, its not such a stretch to think letters can't accompany a shipment of said statement.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
We know that the delivery of raw materials, foodstuffs and personnel is possible to a more a less reliable degree for short warp jumps. This is how Agriworlds feed the teeming billions of Hiveworlds, and how Forgeworlds continue to churn out products and armaments from their manufactorums long after the resources of the planet itself are exhausted.

I suggest that there must be some form of courier service and means of delivering correspondence outside of using astropaths, if only for communication and regular transport within a sub-sector itself.


My question is:
1) Is there any sort of official organisation or service that would deliver mail, letters and small packages between worlds?

2) Would this extend to non-official correspondence such as to families or loved ones elsewhere?

3) If so, to what rank of Imperial servant would such a service be restricted to?

Even in this day and age, people don't send written letters anymore. E-mail is the way to go. The Imperial database (the Internet) connects its worlds together, so if the guardsman finds himself on a world where there is a connection to the database that links with his homeworld, then yes, he can do that. If he is deployed onto death worlds, desolated Necron Tomb Worlds and worlds that have been occupied by Orks for millions of years, then chances are very slim indeed. Sending messages directly is impossible because of the distance between the stars.

Imperial internet? No such thing really exists, hence the need for astropaths to communicate between worlds. Unless they wiped out the need for astropaths in some of the new fluff.

Sending messages and letters via spaceship is the only reliable method as atropaths are a bit woozy in the contents they transmit.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:


I would disagree for the reasons you state. Most forces are actually local. Those ships have to go back for resupply and can drop off letters, wounded, etc.else they just have empty holds.

I can't remember a single story in which regular guardsmen actually get transported off world because they are wounded.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

I would disagree for the reasons you state. Most forces are actually local. Those ships have to go back for resupply and can drop off letters, wounded, etc.else they just have empty holds.

I can't remember a single story in which regular guardsmen actually get transported off world because they are wounded.

It could be logical: wounded flood the nearby hospitals set up for the campaign and they'd better not waste room or resources for soldiers they know won't get back on feet in due time.

It could be logical, but most books on the subject have the soldiers treated on the planet or perhaps in orbit in their troop transports, I haven't heard of regular guardsmen actually being transported to another system because they are wounded. Guardsmen aren't valuable enough to invest that amount of effort if they can't be patched up close by.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
I can't remember a single story in which regular guardsmen actually get transported off world because they are wounded.

It happens extensively in Dark Imperium thanks to Guilliman not understanding that this is supposed to be a grimdark setting. It doesn't really turn out too well for the wounded guardsmen in question. Or for anybody else on the world they're taken to.

 Duskweaver wrote:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
I can't remember a single story in which regular guardsmen actually get transported off world because they are wounded.

It happens extensively in Dark Imperium thanks to Guilliman not understanding that this is supposed to be a grimdark setting. It doesn't really turn out too well for the wounded guardsmen in question. Or for anybody else on the world they're taken to.

That's fantastic understatement right there.

The Imperium is also not tech illiterate, for the most part. The majority of people come from Hive worlds, where a level of tech at least comparable to today's tech in personal equipment is common.

As such, any "letters" could be electronic, and several months of a Regiment's entire communication could be stored in a single hard drive easily.


We also need to bear in mind the typical Imperial deployment pattern:

World is attacked. Local PDF is overwhelmed. Then adjacent worlds send in Guardsmen. If these are overwhelmed, guardsmen are drawn from further afield. If these are not sufficient, then the draft is escalated further and further out depending on available resources and the importance of the world under attack. Eventually, for major worlds, reinforcements can be drawn from across sectors.

As such, the majority of Regiments are likely to be fighitng within a warp jump or two of their home worlds, and operating solely within a single sector. Having a small postal service operating alongside the typical logistical supply chain seems trivial, when it could be entirely electronic in transportation.

Now there seem to be roaming Regiments, that are found much further afield. I suspect these are largely Regiments of Renown, like the Cadians, whose reputation, skill and/or specialist traits are in high demand, and therefore they are shipped off to bolster major warzones in distance sectors. Any communications from these Regiments are definitely going to be minimal if at all, and I can see the Regiment collating a database of years of letters in the supply train, that is just lost at some point, or maybe eventually returns to the homeworld with the details of their Regimental battle honours etc, once the Regiment is refounded after attrition.

Obviously Regiments recruited for offensive Crusades far from home are also not going to be close enough for regular communiques, unless the Crusade is happening next door.

Regarding veterans, as already pointed out, there are loads of examples in the background. Guardsmen clearly do retire, and reasonably often. I don't think they have to until they are infirm though. In addition, from the Eisenhorn books, basic rejuvenat therapy seems to allow people to be fit and healthy easily into their early hundreds, to the extent that seems standard for the middle class, and the retirement ages for any planet with half decent living conditions (many agri worlds and civilised worlds) looks to be pretty good. Veterans, especially officers, are likely to be sufficiently valuable for this small investment, if they have already survived 20+ years of combat.

 Haighus wrote:

Regarding veterans, as already pointed out, there are loads of examples in the background. Guardsmen clearly do retire, and reasonably often. I don't think they have to until they are infirm though. In addition, from the Eisenhorn books, basic rejuvenat therapy seems to allow people to be fit and healthy easily into their early hundreds, to the extent that seems standard for the middle class, and the retirement ages for any planet with half decent living conditions (many agri worlds and civilised worlds) looks to be pretty good. Veterans, especially officers, are likely to be sufficiently valuable for this small investment, if they have already survived 20+ years of combat.

In the Ciaphas Cain novels, juvenant treatments are supposed to be horribly expensive, and reserved for the high aristocracy and extremely important members of the Imperium. Cain at one point said that even his status as a "Hero of the Imperium" wasn't even enough to grant him juvenants, but his inquisitor friend pulled some strings. Regular juvenant treatments would be out of the question for all except very high ranking imperial officers, certainly only members of the general staff or higher.

w1zard wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Regarding veterans, as already pointed out, there are loads of examples in the background. Guardsmen clearly do retire, and reasonably often. I don't think they have to until they are infirm though. In addition, from the Eisenhorn books, basic rejuvenat therapy seems to allow people to be fit and healthy easily into their early hundreds, to the extent that seems standard for the middle class, and the retirement ages for any planet with half decent living conditions (many agri worlds and civilised worlds) looks to be pretty good. Veterans, especially officers, are likely to be sufficiently valuable for this small investment, if they have already survived 20+ years of combat.

In the Ciaphas Cain novels, juvenant treatments are supposed to be horribly expensive, and reserved for the high aristocracy and extremely important members of the Imperium. Cain at one point said that even his status as a "Hero of the Imperium" wasn't even enough to grant him juvenants, but his inquisitor friend pulled some strings. Regular juvenant treatments would be out of the question for all except very high ranking imperial officers, certainly only members of the general staff or higher.

Yet in the Eisenhorn series, characters are regularly working into their 70's as standard on civilised worlds, people who are not directly affiliated with the Inquisition and do not come across as anything like a "hero of the Imperium". This is not considered to be old and these people are performing all kinds of tasks without age impediment.

I am firmly of the impression that not all rejuvenat treatments are equal, and there is a huge range of available treatments and effects. Getting people to live to 125 consistently (ie. the rough upper limit of standard human lifespan today) would be comparatively trivial to the kind of treatments Inquisitors can access allowing them to live 400+ years.

 Haighus wrote:

Yet in the Eisenhorn series, characters are regularly working into their 70's as standard on civilised worlds, people who are not directly affiliated with the Inquisition and do not come across as anything like a "hero of the Imperium". This is not considered to be old and these people are performing all kinds of tasks without age impediment.

I am firmly of the impression that not all rejuvenat treatments are equal, and there is a huge range of available treatments and effects. Getting people to live to 125 consistently (ie. the rough upper limit of standard human lifespan today) would be comparatively trivial to the kind of treatments Inquisitors can access allowing them to live 400+ years.

Or just that different planets have different average lifespans. I can see the average lifespan from a hive world being somewhere around 50 or 60, but the average lifespan on Macragge being around 125 or so, just through sheer standards of living. You also have to take into account Eisenhorn was an inquisitor and could thus get juvenant treatments for himself and his retinue whenever he wanted.

w1zard wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Yet in the Eisenhorn series, characters are regularly working into their 70's as standard on civilised worlds, people who are not directly affiliated with the Inquisition and do not come across as anything like a "hero of the Imperium". This is not considered to be old and these people are performing all kinds of tasks without age impediment.

I am firmly of the impression that not all rejuvenat treatments are equal, and there is a huge range of available treatments and effects. Getting people to live to 125 consistently (ie. the rough upper limit of standard human lifespan today) would be comparatively trivial to the kind of treatments Inquisitors can access allowing them to live 400+ years.

Or just that different planets have different average lifespans. I can see the average lifespan from a hive world being somewhere around 50 or 60, but the average lifespan on Macragge being around 125 or so, just through sheer standards of living. You also have to take into account Eisenhorn was an inquisitor and could thus get juvenant treatments for himself and his retinue whenever he wanted.

That is why I pointed out this seemed to be standard for some of the worlds, not just for Eisenhorn's retinue.

Yes, that is true, and we cannot discount 39,000 years of evolution on the humans scattered through the galaxy. However, humans today, even with the best possible genetics and lifestyle, have a hard limit of about 125 years, and they are very frail for a good 10-20 years prior to that. In contrast, other than the very harsh lifestyles found in the heavily urban planets like Hive worlds and Forge worlds, and of course the conditions on Feral and Death worlds, Imperial citizens seem to have long productive lives. I can only attribute this to easy access to life-extending healthcare. If this extends human function beyond their biological limits, then I would consider that rejuvenat, even if it is a very basic level in comparison to the massively extended lifespans of the upper classes.

Many civilised worlds in particular seem to be very affluent, and I think it is entirely reasonable to consider the middle class on most worlds to have access to life-extending treatments. Considering that this class would consist of skilled, experienced workers, it is probably worth the investment up to a point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I am forty-two standard years old, in my prime by Imperial standards, young by those of the Inquisition

From Xenos.

Now, 42 is by no means old by todays standards, but it is also not typically considered "prime" (which is a fairly tenuous phrase, but still).

I dunno. I just felt, reading that series, that Imperial citizens are generally pretty long lived, unless they are essentially manual workers.

 Haighus wrote:
Many civilised worlds in particular seem to be very affluent, and I think it is entirely reasonable to consider the middle class on most worlds to have access to life-extending treatments. Considering that this class would consist of skilled, experienced workers, it is probably worth the investment up to a point.

It depends on what you consider "juvenant" treatments. I was under the impression that juvenant treatments were a special kind of panacea that "unnaturally" extended someone's life. Not just good healthcare.

I find it highly unlikely that the middle class on even wealthy worlds would have access to juvenant treatments. It is far more likely that the average lifespan has grown longer as a result of 41st millenium healthcare and 39,000 years of evolution. I mean, just look how long the average lifespan has increased just in the past 500 years or so, I don't think it is much of a stretch to say that a middle class human on a wealthy world would have an average lifespan of 100 years or more considering that the average lifespan here in the U.S in the modern day is ~80 years.

w1zard wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
Many civilised worlds in particular seem to be very affluent, and I think it is entirely reasonable to consider the middle class on most worlds to have access to life-extending treatments. Considering that this class would consist of skilled, experienced workers, it is probably worth the investment up to a point.

It depends on what you consider "juvenant" treatments. I was under the impression that juvenant treatments were a special kind of panacea that "unnaturally" extended someone's life. Not just good healthcare.

I find it highly unlikely that the middle class on even wealthy worlds would have access to juvenant treatments. It is far more likely that the average lifespan has grown longer as a result of 41st millenium healthcare and 39,000 years of evolution. I mean, just look how long the average lifespan has increased just in the past 500 years or so, I don't think it is much of a stretch to say that a middle class human on a wealthy world would have an average lifespan of 100 years or more considering that the average lifespan here in the U.S in the modern day is ~80 years.

It does extend lifespan. Quoting and translating my french language 4th codex, it is a process to artificially extend lifespan, very costy so that only nobles or officiers can afford it.

However the average imperial lifespan depends on the world you live on. In some, you could benefit from, as you say, thousand years of evolution. In others, most poeple don't or the technology isn't available.

Between vat grown organs/limbs and rejuv treatments I wonder if the only reason the rich really die is simply because their brain just gives out after a few centuries. Technically they could replace almost any body part that causes natural deaths to occur.

w1zard wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
Many civilised worlds in particular seem to be very affluent, and I think it is entirely reasonable to consider the middle class on most worlds to have access to life-extending treatments. Considering that this class would consist of skilled, experienced workers, it is probably worth the investment up to a point.

It depends on what you consider "juvenant" treatments. I was under the impression that juvenant treatments were a special kind of panacea that "unnaturally" extended someone's life. Not just good healthcare.

I find it highly unlikely that the middle class on even wealthy worlds would have access to juvenant treatments. It is far more likely that the average lifespan has grown longer as a result of 41st millenium healthcare and 39,000 years of evolution. I mean, just look how long the average lifespan has increased just in the past 500 years or so, I don't think it is much of a stretch to say that a middle class human on a wealthy world would have an average lifespan of 100 years or more considering that the average lifespan here in the U.S in the modern day is ~80 years.

I would consider anything beyond 125 years as life extending though, and also anything retaining youthful physical performance beyond a person's 50's and 60's.

Yes, better healthcare would improve life expectancy, but not by that much. Most of the increases of the last 600 years have been due to reduced infant and childhood mortality- if you survived the first 5, you still had a good chance of reaching 70 years in Medieval times. That is partly why life expectancy has increased so little over the last half century- it is all marginal gains now there are not loads of dying kids pulling the average down. As I mentioned, there is also a hard limit of ~125 years, and humans become unavoidably frail as they age, even if they are in good health.

Reducing the rate at which frailty affects humans, and keeping them at near peak fitness into their 80's or later, I would consider the most mild form of "rejuvenat", as it would literally require rejuvenating tissue into a more youthful state. This would be the most straightforward- thinking about it it probably could be done using regular medication to stave off cell damage, something absorbing radiation and free radicals maybe. That wouldn't be rejuvenating per se, more protective.

Eitherway, the IoM seems to have ready access to moderately life extending technology, whatever that technology may be. My use of the word rejuvenat may be off, but they have access to something with a similar, but more minor effect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Between vat grown organs/limbs and rejuv treatments I wonder if the only reason the rich really die is simply because their brain just gives out after a few centuries. Technically they could replace almost any body part that causes natural deaths to occur.

We have Mechanicum adepts living thousands of years, so theoretically there is no upper limit. I would think brains are difficult to regenerate, but should be far from impossible given the Imperial knowledge of vat-growing tissue, and creating servitors, neural interfaces and artificial cortices. They clearly have the necessary technology to artificially grow replacement neural tissue in a desired pattern. This is why I find the most stupid bit of the Eisenhorn trilogy is when he cannot repair the nerve damage to his face. The level of bionics available to the IoM mean they could literally run an artificial replacement nerve to his skin if they wished, not even starting on replacement vat grown tissue.

I imagine the limit is largely down to the available resources of the noble- the prices probably become inordinately expensive at the high end of this stuff, perhaps beyond even many planetary governors to utilise regularly without bankrupting themselves. Plus nobles can still be killed by war and intrigue. Maybe eventually some bored successor just bumps them off to get the top job?

 Haighus wrote:

Yes, better healthcare would improve life expectancy, but not by that much. Most of the increases of the last 600 years have been due to reduced infant and childhood mortality- if you survived the first 5, you still had a good chance of reaching 70 years in Medieval times.

Not entirely true, even excluding infant mortality, the average lifespan back then was around 55. Disease and injury played a large part of that. I think I can dig up the historical statistics to back up my claim if you would like. In the past 500 years the average lifespan has increased by about ~20 years. I don't think another 25 is that much of a stretch for 39,000 years.

 Haighus wrote:
Eitherway, the IoM seems to have ready access to moderately life extending technology, whatever that technology may be. My use of the word rejuvenat may be off, but they have access to something with a similar, but more minor effect.

"Juvenat treatments" are the medical procedures that let humans be like 200+ years old in the lore. Cain received them and looked as though he were in his late 40s even though he was something like 160. I very much doubt that middle class citizens have access to that. Life prolonging healthcare? Sure. But not juvenat treatments.

There may be something like "minor" juvenat or something but it is never mentioned in the lore.

 Haighus wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Between vat grown organs/limbs and rejuv treatments I wonder if the only reason the rich really die is simply because their brain just gives out after a few centuries. Technically they could replace almost any body part that causes natural deaths to occur.

We have Mechanicum adepts living thousands of years, so theoretically there is no upper limit. I would think brains are difficult to regenerate, but should be far from impossible given the Imperial knowledge of vat-growing tissue, and creating servitors, neural interfaces and artificial cortices. They clearly have the necessary technology to artificially grow replacement neural tissue in a desired pattern. This is why I find the most stupid bit of the Eisenhorn trilogy is when he cannot repair the nerve damage to his face. The level of bionics available to the IoM mean they could literally run an artificial replacement nerve to his skin if they wished, not even starting on replacement vat grown tissue.

I imagine the limit is largely down to the available resources of the noble- the prices probably become inordinately expensive at the high end of this stuff, perhaps beyond even many planetary governors to utilise regularly without bankrupting themselves. Plus nobles can still be killed by war and intrigue. Maybe eventually some bored successor just bumps them off to get the top job?

I don't know if they have the tech to succesfully replicate a brain. Sure, you can vat-grow one, but it would not be the same person realistically. I think that is were the edge is, with an added taboo on cloning tech (which again isn't the same person of course). I figure that this is why people die in 40K, they can do a lot, but they can't recreate the entire person when the brain shuts down. Still though, if they really want to live forever then the Mechanicus seems to have found a way to keep at least the memories intact, even if its barely a human/person anymore. But they don't seem to share that brain upgrade tech with others it seems, unless it requires such extensive work that it can't be done to those not already extensively altered by the AM.

And yes, plenty of things come across as silly because the writers don't think things through. The Eisenhorn part is a prime example of that. It must be highly expensive, but from the amount of times it actually happens its probably not prohibitive to the upper layers of society and in the case of the Inquisition money would seem like a trivial concern. I assume getting bumped off or killed is still quite a significant risk to the upper class, almost every book that touches upon it layers intrigue upon intrigue (to a sometimes terrible extent).

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Between vat grown organs/limbs and rejuv treatments I wonder if the only reason the rich really die is simply because their brain just gives out after a few centuries. Technically they could replace almost any body part that causes natural deaths to occur.

We have Mechanicum adepts living thousands of years, so theoretically there is no upper limit. I would think brains are difficult to regenerate, but should be far from impossible given the Imperial knowledge of vat-growing tissue, and creating servitors, neural interfaces and artificial cortices. They clearly have the necessary technology to artificially grow replacement neural tissue in a desired pattern. This is why I find the most stupid bit of the Eisenhorn trilogy is when he cannot repair the nerve damage to his face. The level of bionics available to the IoM mean they could literally run an artificial replacement nerve to his skin if they wished, not even starting on replacement vat grown tissue.

I imagine the limit is largely down to the available resources of the noble- the prices probably become inordinately expensive at the high end of this stuff, perhaps beyond even many planetary governors to utilise regularly without bankrupting themselves. Plus nobles can still be killed by war and intrigue. Maybe eventually some bored successor just bumps them off to get the top job?

I don't know if they have the tech to succesfully replicate a brain. Sure, you can vat-grow one, but it would not be the same person realistically. I think that is were the edge is, with an added taboo on cloning tech (which again isn't the same person of course). I figure that this is why people die in 40K, they can do a lot, but they can't recreate the entire person when the brain shuts down. Still though, if they really want to live forever then the Mechanicus seems to have found a way to keep at least the memories intact, even if its barely a human/person anymore. But they don't seem to share that brain upgrade tech with others it seems, unless it requires such extensive work that it can't be done to those not already extensively altered by the AM.

And yes, plenty of things come across as silly because the writers don't think things through. The Eisenhorn part is a prime example of that. It must be highly expensive, but from the amount of times it actually happens its probably not prohibitive to the upper layers of society and in the case of the Inquisition money would seem like a trivial concern. I assume getting bumped off or killed is still quite a significant risk to the upper class, almost every book that touches upon it layers intrigue upon intrigue (to a sometimes terrible extent).

Well, I was going off two things in particular- the complexity of Cybernetica cortices basically has individual neurons being routed by adepts during programming, and servitors can also essentially be reprogrammed in ways that can be remarkably sophisticated and show a deep understanding of the human brain. The Mechanicus memory banks and neural interfaces also suggest that large parts of the brain can be easily made artificial, so the only remaining bit would likely be areas of the cortex in a rich individual. It seems to me entirely possible that the Imperium is capable of replicating neural tissue in the correct structure with that level of technology. Is it restricted to the Mechanicus? Quite possibly- I can see this being ridiculously exclusive and expensive.

Hmm yes, I think that is where the limit is. The process you describe is so complicated only the most senior forgeworld officials ever reach that stage of brain alteration and I don't think even any of the regular High Lords ever was descibed as living for that long (who would be prime secondary candidates after the AM)

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Hmm yes, I think that is where the limit is. The process you describe is so complicated only the most senior forgeworld officials ever reach that stage of brain alteration and I don't think even any of the regular High Lords ever was descibed as living for that long (who would be prime secondary candidates after the AM)

Yeah, although we cannot discount being "retired" by younger family members or assassinated by rivals.

It raises an interesting thought- the Mechanicus can probably entirely replace a person's brain, but maintain their personality and independence. I kind of feel this must be the end game for the most senior of magi, like Cawl. Based on the Cybernetica cortices, it would still appear fairly organic in parts, but would likely be considerably more durable, and would explain the longevity of senior magi.

A lot of good replies in this thread, Peregine's replies alone are worth the price of entry.

I would add, as always "It Depends". With a million worlds and 10,000+ years to play with anything is possible.

Guardsmen write letters home, and then they are reverently incinerated with the smoke carrying their words to their families far away.
Guardsmen write letters home, and they are reverently packed into boxes covered with purity seals and constantly guarded as they move from ship to ship sometimes arriving centuries after the regiment left. These words from heroes and martyrs are revered as holy relics.
Guardsmen write letters home, they are scanned and burned onto a chip, chips are collected and loaded into spare space in transport ships and arrive home for printing and distribution in a few months.
Guardsmen write letters home, they are collected and sit in transport ships wandering the galaxy until they are eaten by rats or crumble into dust. Sometime they are delivered to a world. Seldom the right world, but a world at least.
Guardsmen write letters home, and are soundly beaten. War is your only home.

And every other permutation you might come up with.

It's worth mentioning that letters home are a long-revered custom for soldiers and anyone far from home. The brits sent soldiers to India to die of dysentery and malaria but they still got to send letters home. While Guardsmen may be among the lowest of Imperial servants they are still Imperial Servants, the elite of the Imperium. Press-ganged slaves in the bowels of the ship won't get letters home but Guardsmen are special.

If Regimental Standard is anything to go by, the Imperium seems to be trying to keep up with whatever forms of social media/communication that are being used all over the galaxy.

There are various references about Guardsmen hearing things from media, photo sharing and even letters being sent home.

I think with most aspects of the Guard, you get both ends of the spectrum. So from no letters, to letters, from abnormal to 'normal' it's all there with the different regiments.