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2018/07/03 02:28:47
Subject: [2000] - AdMech & Knights - NOVA Open - Feedback Needed
I've been focused on bringing AdMech to the NOVA Open GT, but I've struggled to find a list I felt good about. However, with Codex: Imperial Knights, I think I have the tools I'll need. I'd appreciate the community's input on this list!
Spoiler:
++ Total: 117 PL, 1997pts, 11 CPs ++
++ Battalion Detachment - Adeptus Mechanicus [74 PL, 1192pts] ++
+ Forgeworld Dogma: Mars
+ Lord of War [43 PL, 805pts] +
• Armiger Helverin [9 PL, 174pts]: Heavy Stubber [4pts]
• Armiger Helverin [9 PL, 174pts]: Heavy Stubber [4pts]
• Knight Crusader [25 PL, 457pts]: Warlord
-- Heavy Stubber [4pts], Thermal Cannon [76pts], Avenger Gatling Cannon [75pts], Heavy Flamer [17pts]
-- Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
-- Relic: The Helm Dominatus
The list is pretty straightforward: very effective shooting, lots of T7+ wounds to chew through, good mobility in the Knight detachment and the dunecrawlers, and decent charge defense from the knight.
I still think there's a lot of tweaking to be done here, but I'd love the input of folks on a couple of specific questions:
1. I've gone with Vulker and a package focused on shooting and supporting the Helverins. Would a Gallant / Warden with Warglaives be better in a competitive setting? Given the popularity of Dark Eldar and T6 models in general, Helverins are solid, but they're less versatile than a Warglaive. This also impacts the composition of Dunecrawlers I'd bring, with Icarus Arrays filling a similar role to Helverins, and Neutron Lasers filling a similar role to Warglaives. Obviously going against all knight lists is a concern I have.
2. The NOVA format doesn't really punish losing your warlord. However, is having an AdMech warlord (likely the Enginseer with Necromechanic & Autocaduceus) and spending 2CP on a trait and relic for the knight worth the extra flexibility that brings? There aren't many times you don't want Ion Bulwark and Endless Fury, but there are some.
2018/07/03 09:18:22
Subject: [2000] - AdMech & Knights - NOVA Open - Feedback Needed
My gut feeling is that a Gallant would be beneficial. With some clever deployment shenanigans and good rolls you've got a pretty decent chance of 1st turn charge.
Gallant, no carapace weapons, and Landstrider trait. Advance turn 1, use Full Tilt and see what happens. By my rough estimates doing that will free up around 50+ points.
I've never been too much a fan of the Icarus Arrays. I'd just go with the Neutron Lasers, yes you don't get your hit bonus against Flyers, but the sheer amount of damage they can put out will probably make up for that.
2018/07/03 12:34:06
Subject: [2000] - AdMech & Knights - NOVA Open - Feedback Needed
Might be worth rechecking your points here from battlescribe(?)
Cawl is only 240 points since CA came out, not 250 so you may have some extra points to play with to make some additional decisions around units/ set up if nay other points are slightly out,
2018/07/03 14:43:17
Subject: [2000] - AdMech & Knights - NOVA Open - Feedback Needed
Brass eye wrote: Might be worth rechecking your points here from battlescribe(?)
Cawl is only 240 points since CA came out, not 250 so you may have some extra points to play with to make some additional decisions around units/ set up if nay other points are slightly out,
Thanks, good eye! I think I made an error copying over an older list, and it should still come out to 1997 with Cawl at 240. I do have wiggle room to free up points with taking Rangers over Vanguard, but I'm not sure what that gets me that's very meaningful.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Valkyrie wrote: My gut feeling is that a Gallant would be beneficial. With some clever deployment shenanigans and good rolls you've got a pretty decent chance of 1st turn charge.
Gallant, no carapace weapons, and Landstrider trait. Advance turn 1, use Full Tilt and see what happens. By my rough estimates doing that will free up around 50+ points.
I've never been too much a fan of the Icarus Arrays. I'd just go with the Neutron Lasers, yes you don't get your hit bonus against Flyers, but the sheer amount of damage they can put out will probably make up for that.
If I drop the knight down to a Warden or a Gallant and cut some troops, I can pretty much fit in a third Helverin, or even swap and run three Warglaives. I feel like the added offensive power there might be worth it for sure. I could also fit in two gallants, though that starts to be more of a Knight list with AdMech support. I'll definitely have to mull this over.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/03 14:50:45
2018/07/04 20:09:14
Subject: Re:[2000] - AdMech & Knights - NOVA Open - Feedback Needed
I like the list, but I think with a very minimal tweak you could really turn this up to 11:
Mars Battalion
Cawl
Enginseer
3x5 Rangers
4 Dakkastellans
2 Neutronagers
Valhalla Patrol
Company Commander, Warlord, Kurov's Aquilla, Grand Strategist
1x9 Imperial Guard, mortar team
Taranis Super Heavy Detachment
Gallant, Sanctuary, Warlord Trait either Landstrider or Ion Bulwark
2 Helverins
Give the knight sanctuary and ion bulwark and rotate ion shields for a 3++ against shooting and a 4++ in close combat. Coupled with Taranis ignoring wounds on a 6+ and the stratagem "Our Darkest Hour" having this Knight possibly stand back up after dying is insane. This is the ultimate distraction Carnifex.
The valhalla patrol gives you a lot of CP recycling opportunities all for a 75pt investment. At the very worst the commander becomes a Castellan shield breaker missile target, saving something else.
The list lacks psychic defence and mobility, but you could tweak a few points to get a primaris psyker in the guard detachment. Mobility and scoring would be up to you killing a lot haha.
2018/07/05 05:23:12
Subject: Re:[2000] - AdMech & Knights - NOVA Open - Feedback Needed
I like the list, I feel it could do well at NOVA.
I have been cooking up a VERY similar list for competitive play but I am not a strong fan of Kastellan Robots. I feel that Onagers are better for my points. I also made the hard decision of dropping Cawl and making the detachment Stygies VII
Here is a "different" rendition.
Valiant uses 2CP to get a Warlord Trait (Ion Bulwark) and Relic (Sainted Ion)
Cawl would be a great addition but I think Stygies' -1 to hit and deepstrike T1 strategem is stronger than full re-rolls to hit.
I am still debating if the Helverins or Warglaives would be more beneficial but I went for Warglaives right now.
KingLetterman wrote: I like the list, I feel it could do well at NOVA.
I have been cooking up a VERY similar list for competitive play but I am not a strong fan of Kastellan Robots. I feel that Onagers are better for my points. I also made the hard decision of dropping Cawl and making the detachment Stygies VII
Here is a "different" rendition.
Valiant uses 2CP to get a Warlord Trait (Ion Bulwark) and Relic (Sainted Ion)
Cawl would be a great addition but I think Stygies' -1 to hit and deepstrike T1 strategem is stronger than full re-rolls to hit.
I am still debating if the Helverins or Warglaives would be more beneficial but I went for Warglaives right now.
I like your list, a bit of a close-combat yin to my shooting yang. I do worry that Warglaive's Thermal Lances fill a similar role to Neutron Lasers. With the prevalence of light vehicles and models with fly I feel like helverins or Icarus Arrays are needed. That said, you may apply enough forward pressure that that's less of an issue.
I've always been a big fan of the robots with Cawl, and they're pretty unstoppable if they're left alone (a big if), and if they stay out of CC. The deepstrike changes help a lot, and I hope that the addition of a knight will draw most of the firepower to the knight instead of the robots. One admitted weakness of my list is that it is pretty predictable: annihilate the enemy in the shooting phase. I think I have the durability and mobility to manage though.
