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craggy wrote:
Some lovely entitlement and willful ignorance of the huge variation in economic circumstances in here. Not from everyone, thankfully. Saying that GW isn't an expensive hobby is great, in comparison to some hobbies, sure. In comparison to some others, it's quite a pricey one. Prices are different in different countries, as are wages, and we clearly do have members who are still in school as well. Let's not be dicks because we're better off than other posters?

Well I understand that if someones entry hobby was taking his 3-5 super cars with your dads plane to London, and later on collecting yachts, something like w40k seems
pitful as cost goes.

- I know a guy who has been known to spend £300+ on cocaine in 1 weekend- hes on minimum wage.
- I know a guy who probably spends the same per week on steroids- he is self employed, paid cash in hand- works 7 days a week to pay rent on top of "supplies"
- I know a guy who takes breaks during work (night shifts on call) to visit hookers- REGULARLY

Interesting range of activities to compare to w40k. And people say my enviroment is toxic

Karol wrote:


Interesting range of activities to compare to w40k. And people say my enviroment is toxic

And yet none of these toxic "hobbies" are uncommon in the UK.

Casual class A drug use is absolutely through the roof, Steroid abuse and addiction is astronomical- (number one use of needle banks in the UK is for steroids). Prostitution is just prostitution- but even so, when youre shown an app that tells you how many are within a one mile radius you see how insane the world is becoming.

All these degenerate pass times pale in comparison to MTG though haha

Karol wrote:

craggy wrote:
Some lovely entitlement and willful ignorance of the huge variation in economic circumstances in here. Not from everyone, thankfully. Saying that GW isn't an expensive hobby is great, in comparison to some hobbies, sure. In comparison to some others, it's quite a pricey one. Prices are different in different countries, as are wages, and we clearly do have members who are still in school as well. Let's not be dicks because we're better off than other posters?

Well I understand that if someones entry hobby was taking his 3-5 super cars with your dads plane to London, and later on collecting yachts, something like w40k seems
pitful as cost goes.

- I know a guy who has been known to spend £300+ on cocaine in 1 weekend- hes on minimum wage.
- I know a guy who probably spends the same per week on steroids- he is self employed, paid cash in hand- works 7 days a week to pay rent on top of "supplies"
- I know a guy who takes breaks during work (night shifts on call) to visit hookers- REGULARLY

Interesting range of activities to compare to w40k. And people say my enviroment is toxic

Then heck, compare to some of the common hobbies people have/I have:

-Cycling. I paid a 40k army's worth of money to get my bike, used on craigslist. I also have a bunch of accessories to go with it that all cost in the range of miniature kits, like helmets, water containers, etc.

-Beer making. Bunch of friends of mine are in on this kind of thing - startup cost is typically about half a 40k army, and each batch you brew is about a kit of miniatures.

-Video games. ~400$ startup cost, 60$ for any new game. This isnt even getting into the PC master race, lol.

-Skiing/Snowboarding. Season past lift ticket is typically like 200-300 bucks, not even getting into the gear costs.

If you consider 40k against a typical board game ("say, should we play settlers of catan or warhammer 40,000?") then sure, it seems absolutely bonkers expensive. If you consider it against a typical hobby (lets say you play board games with my buddies on weekends, and I usually buy a game every 2 weeks or so for 60$) then it's pretty comparable.

I asked around a bit and it seems that for most games the avarge cost of a w40k army is the cost of an entire collection for one faction or multiple factions. Doesn't really matter for me though. The store that run infinity, warmachine etc went bankrupt, as they only sold models, and there was some huge problems with actually getting the ordered models from US and Spain.

When I think how much vodka and afterburners you could buy for 700$, I get a bit dizzy too. a 1L of vodka from belarus costs 80 cents. 40g of after burners cost 2$. Whole summer busy with friends or alone, and there still would be money left for games on steam etc.

Here in Ontario, Canada, you can't get out of a fast food joint without spending $10 - burger/fried/drink combo. I probably spend about $15 a week on bringing my own lunches, and it takes me less time to make my lunches than they spend getting their lunches (during a 1/2 hour break!). It boggles the mind.

I don't specifically save for GW. I have way too many models in about 5 armies (since 2002), and pieces of 2 other armies. I've reached the stage where I'll pop for a new kit if it appeals or I have a conversion in mind. I actually have 3 un-built kits which is unusual for me as I used to finish the latest model before getting a new kit. Have to say GW models are pretty awesome altho I have no desire for a knight as they are too large in my opinion for the game, but I have a kit of Armigers I am looking forward to building - size is right. Basically an impulse buyer if the bills aren't too insane in a particular month - property tax went up $200 a month recently, so thinking of sending some Orks down to the Assessor's office...

If I have disposable income to spend, I buy hobby stuff. Might be 40k, MtG, PC games or some other things.

My spending will be dictated by how much money I have to spare, I won't be spending more money on them just because they produce more things I want.

If they have a lot of things available I really, really want, GW is more likely to get my money than another hobby. If I hate what they are doing, they won't be getting any.

Since there are plenty of ork and death guard models I don't own yet, it doesn't really matter to me whether they release a lot of new models. However, if Morkanauts are going to suck in the new codex, they won't be selling me any.

None of the options I think suit me.
I have no major issues saving money despite my low income. I can can save £30-60 a month (let's say an average of £45) depending if I'm careful.

The issue is value for money.
So while I could plonk £45 a month on GW I have to look at what I get for that £45.
The answer simply being...feth all really.

Wargaming in general is super cheap. Crazy cheap (not including paint restocks).
I can plonk £45 on warlord, perry, rubicon, victrix etc and I feel I get value for money.
That £45 can get me 120 high quality, multi part, 28mm plastic models. Heck straight away I can paint 2 or 3 forces for skirmish gaming.
From GW...I'd be lucky to get 15 models I can do...Nothing with.

No point me comparing it to video games. Drugs. Prostitutes etc as I do none of those what I see as boring activities.

I wouldn't say I save up. It's more that I've become more strict on actually buying stuff due to the piles of grey plastic I already have, the lack of hobby time that I have these days, and too many expensive hobbies.

They just keep releasing tempting new stuff though.. Forgebane, the re-release of Renegade, and the new Kill Team stuff... I'll probably throw some money at at least one of them. Always wanted a Knight or two, and the Kill Team box with the new terrain looks great too.

Its expensive to start out.
I don't however find spending £20-30 a month to 6 weeks overly onerous and I don't paint faster than that. I am trying (and admittedly sometimes failing) to stop adding to the infinite pile of grey plastic that will never get painted.

Some GW stuff is a complete rip off (character models especially - even if they may work out in terms of points for money) but the rest usually doesn't seem crazy.

Frankly £20 doesn't buy me very much of anything else these days. That would buy me a night out in the pub if I don't eat food. A trip to the cinema - again without much food.

ValentineGames wrote:
None of the options I think suit me.
I have no major issues saving money despite my low income. I can can save £30-60 a month (let's say an average of £45) depending if I'm careful.

The issue is value for money.
So while I could plonk £45 a month on GW I have to look at what I get for that £45.
The answer simply being...feth all really.

Wargaming in general is super cheap. Crazy cheap (not including paint restocks).
I can plonk £45 on warlord, perry, rubicon, victrix etc and I feel I get value for money.
That £45 can get me 120 high quality, multi part, 28mm plastic models. Heck straight away I can paint 2 or 3 forces for skirmish gaming.
From GW...I'd be lucky to get 15 models I can do...Nothing with.

No point me comparing it to video games. Drugs. Prostitutes etc as I do none of those what I see as boring activities.

that is true, some new guy not from my school started infinity today at our store, spent around 180$. bought 1 unit box 2-3 blisters and big army box, and has more then is needed to play. Even twice as much, bought as second hand would be something very specific to be legal. Deathwatch maybe costs around 300$.

I typically just splurge at Gencon. But I'll buy the occasional thing online if I need it for a conversion idea. Or if I find a good deal on something on my list I'll pick it up.

Karol wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
None of the options I think suit me.
I have no major issues saving money despite my low income. I can can save £30-60 a month (let's say an average of £45) depending if I'm careful.

The issue is value for money.
So while I could plonk £45 a month on GW I have to look at what I get for that £45.
The answer simply being...feth all really.

Wargaming in general is super cheap. Crazy cheap (not including paint restocks).
I can plonk £45 on warlord, perry, rubicon, victrix etc and I feel I get value for money.
That £45 can get me 120 high quality, multi part, 28mm plastic models. Heck straight away I can paint 2 or 3 forces for skirmish gaming.
From GW...I'd be lucky to get 15 models I can do...Nothing with.

No point me comparing it to video games. Drugs. Prostitutes etc as I do none of those what I see as boring activities.

that is true, some new guy not from my school started infinity today at our store, spent around 180$. bought 1 unit box 2-3 blisters and big army box, and has more then is needed to play. Even twice as much, bought as second hand would be something very specific to be legal. Deathwatch maybe costs around 300$.

Totally agree with this. I can save, and I have more than enough to spend on my hobby... But now that I have two moderately sized 40k armies, I really don't want to give GW any more of my cash. I find it hard to justify any new GW purchase I make, because I just don't really enjoy their games anymore.

Very happy the guys at the store have started to feel the same way, and once we all discovered Frostgrave and other skirmish sized games. It has brought me back to wanting to buy stuff, and not feeling bad about it.

Yeah, I'm the same now I think about it. I wsnt to get into X-wint but I didn't because I looked at it from a 40k point of view. I saw you coule only buy like a single ship fo £20-30 but then aparntly that's all you need to play a game. And yeah, I've been tempted to buy other games knowing I can get double the models for the same price but then I remembered there isn't anyone nearby who plays those games and i get sad.

I have high hopes for kill team. A single book around 35$, store terrain and 30$ "army box" would be an awesome thing from GW. I could could afford multiple armies like that over the year.

Do we know how much the box is? But yeah, must admit... if killteam turns out to be any good it eill be a lot easier for me to get back into 40k. I'll buy a cheap box of 5-10 units and jist go wild on converting them for all the armies i want. Can finally have a Tyranids force without crying when i look at my bank account. As someone who loves painting rather and playing this is a great chance for me to do new stuff. But I wonder if this could be the case for 40k as well! Every edition up until 8th our armies got cheaper and cheaper in points and required us to buy more. In 2nd edition you could play with like 20 models and tbat would be a full army. I was happy to see 8th put all our prices up as it meant we needed to buy less.... However, this topic is probably best left to an entire thread gy itself. XD

Though the cost of GW models aren't really a problem for me I have a strict policy of never buying anything new before my last purchase is fully assembled and painted. Which makes it even easier. I guess that I'd spend alot more on the hobby if I had more free time.

 lolman1c wrote:
What? Even when I was under 18 my parents just let em keep hold of my money for Christmas and Birthday. It taught valuable lessons!

and what kind of parent uses birthday money to buy them clothes and books for school?!

\

Mine. Money I was gifted was generally placed into my "saving for college" account, and internship money I made once at college was placed in my "saving for my future retirement" account. Justification was "you don't need it, you can ask us to buy anything you want and we haven't refused to buy you anything you've asked for." They generally had/have a positive opinion of me playing 40k, so as long as I asked for new toys at the right time and didn't ask for something expensive than the occasion warranted, I could generally expect to receive new plastic soldiers. In general if I could ask for and expect to receive a tank at Christmas and for my birthday, and could expect to receive an infantry squad or heavy weapons squad as a reward for ending a semester with good grades.


Anyway, 40k isn't really expensive. Sure, if you're making poverty wage and can't afford rent you probably can't afford 40k, but that's not the question, nor a valid evaluation, because at that point the question if whether or not you can afford any hobby or luxury, much less this one. And on the scale of hobbies and general luxury purchases, it's actually pretty inexpensive.


Also, while eating out has already been mentioned as a place most of us who do play can free up money, Video Games also deserve special mention. Most of the younger among us play video games; and I know a lot of people who have vast steam libraries of games with only a few dozen hours played. My general 2c on video games is: A: only buy it when it's on sale, and for about $10, B: only buy it if I wanted for a while before I learned it was on sale, and C: only buy it if I think I'll spend more than 10 hours playing it for every dollar spent.

Honestly, not buying things on impulse is generally good financial advice. I wait several months to make sure I actually want something before buying it, and generally consider what else I could use the money for and if I'd rather have that.

 Peregrine wrote:
Once you're an adult with a real job you don't worry about saving up over weeks/months for a $50 toy.

Disabled gamers would say otherwise.

 Blndmage wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Once you're an adult with a real job you don't worry about saving up over weeks/months for a $50 toy.

Disabled gamers would say otherwise.

I would assume that they don't have the "real job" part of that statement.

I have a problem buying models I don't need, but I've saved up for warhound and reaver titans, There is nothing else really that is expensive enough that I need to save up. Not because I'm well off but because I don't mind eating canned beans and pasta for a month.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Also, while eating out has already been mentioned as a place most of us who do play can free up money, Video Games also deserve special mention. Most of the younger among us play video games; and I know a lot of people who have vast steam libraries of games with only a few dozen hours played. My general 2c on video games is: A: only buy it when it's on sale, and for about $10, B: only buy it if I wanted for a while before I learned it was on sale, and C: only buy it if I think I'll spend more than 10 hours playing it for every dollar spent.

Some video games can save you money by being cheap entertainment. If you get 40 hours out of a $10 game, well, you didn't spend any other money in that 40 hours. Most of my random Steam games came in bundles with a couple games I actually wanted.

Another area people are often bad at is buying groceries. Check the newspaper fliers and plan your purchases. I takes 15min, once a week, and probably another 45min skipping from store to store, but can save you a lot on the grocery bill, even if you don't have coupons. I'm not a huge fan of coupon chasing, but half price beef/chicken/pork or paper products (paper towels, toilet paper) are worth chasing down.

Choice of drinks can be a factor too. Tea is cheap. Cheap, cheap, cheap. Not as cheap as water, but cheaper than most other things. I'll generally take a can of Coke to work because it's more convenient and I can't make tea at work, but a flat of soft drinks is way cheaper than buying soda from a vending machine.

My family believe we could die any second, won't make it to retire or the government will change the law so we can never retire. So my family are all about the now and having fun while you're young.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 John Prins wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Also, while eating out has already been mentioned as a place most of us who do play can free up money, Video Games also deserve special mention. Most of the younger among us play video games; and I know a lot of people who have vast steam libraries of games with only a few dozen hours played. My general 2c on video games is: A: only buy it when it's on sale, and for about $10, B: only buy it if I wanted for a while before I learned it was on sale, and C: only buy it if I think I'll spend more than 10 hours playing it for every dollar spent.

Some video games can save you money by being cheap entertainment. If you get 40 hours out of a $10 game, well, you didn't spend any other money in that 40 hours. Most of my random Steam games came in bundles with a couple games I actually wanted.

Another area people are often bad at is buying groceries. Check the newspaper fliers and plan your purchases. I takes 15min, once a week, and probably another 45min skipping from store to store, but can save you a lot on the grocery bill, even if you don't have coupons. I'm not a huge fan of coupon chasing, but half price beef/chicken/pork or paper products (paper towels, toilet paper) are worth chasing down.

Choice of drinks can be a factor too. Tea is cheap. Cheap, cheap, cheap. Not as cheap as water, but cheaper than most other things. I'll generally take a can of Coke to work because it's more convenient and I can't make tea at work, but a flat of soft drinks is way cheaper than buying soda from a vending machine.

Dude, I saved a fortune last year on shopping. I switched shops to a cheaper place doen the road. I used to spend £20 a week on food shopping and it cut drastically down to £10 and I was getting the same stuff with same quality! In total of me living in that area I probably saved about £500 just on food.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I have a problem buying models I don't need, but I've saved up for warhound and reaver titans, There is nothing else really that is expensive enough that I need to save up. Not because I'm well off but because I don't mind eating canned beans and pasta for a month.

I wouldn't buy a titan even if I had the money.
1. I ain't that into 40k.
2. My partner would kill me in my sleep.
3. I wouldn't have anywhere to out it.

 Blndmage wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Once you're an adult with a real job you don't worry about saving up over weeks/months for a $50 toy.

Disabled gamers would say otherwise.

Judging by what I've seen of sone members on Dakka I think they'd claim they don't deserve to play...

ValentineGames wrote:
Judging by what I've seen of sone members on Dakka I think they'd claim they don't deserve to play...

Nobody deserves to play 40k, it's a hobby not an entitlement. It would be absurd to suggest that anyone has a right to play 40k, or that it would be an unacceptable harm if they are not able to do so.

 Peregrine wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Judging by what I've seen of sone members on Dakka I think they'd claim they don't deserve to play...

Nobody deserves to play 40k, it's a hobby not an entitlement. It would be absurd to suggest that anyone has a right to play 40k, or that it would be an unacceptable harm if they are not able to do so.

The fact that's not what I was saying and you know it speaks volumes.

 Peregrine wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Judging by what I've seen of sone members on Dakka I think they'd claim they don't deserve to play...

Nobody deserves to play 40k, it's a hobby not an entitlement. It would be absurd to suggest that anyone has a right to play 40k, or that it would be an unacceptable harm if they are not able to do so.

I am not an expert, but I would expect that if someone pays for his model he should be able to play with them. If VW or Ford suddenly put out an add, that just because they sell cars it doesn't mean people should be able to drive with them, people would be rising eyebrows left and right.

Karol wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Judging by what I've seen of sone members on Dakka I think they'd claim they don't deserve to play...

Nobody deserves to play 40k, it's a hobby not an entitlement. It would be absurd to suggest that anyone has a right to play 40k, or that it would be an unacceptable harm if they are not able to do so.

I am not an expert, but I would expect that if someone pays for his model he should be able to play with them. If VW or Ford suddenly put out an add, that just because they sell cars it doesn't mean people should be able to drive with them, people would be rising eyebrows left and right.

In our GW back home we had I think two or three disabled guys playing there. Two people I think had social problems (nice guys just probably had some bad upbringing) and one dude was outright limited to a chair and could only use one hand. Honestly some of the best people to play with. The guy in chair played nurgle and tyranids and had no problems playing the game (with a bit of help from those around him when it came to picking up models in the centre of the table). Come to think of it our GW also has ramps and stuff.

But to say nobody deserves to play a game is a horrible thing to say and I'm not sure if they mean it or just didn't think about what they were typing. Sure, a game shouldn't have to cater towards people and be designed for everyone possible (that's an impossible task) but everyone has a human right to try something. That's a basic fact.... if a person with disabilities wants to go out there and play 40k then they can... nothing is stopping them. Not even their disabilities if people step in to help out. Hell, you could be tied to a bed only able to communicate through your eyebrows and you can play if you want. Just ask the people to make move for you. They're not animals they're humans with free will and can do what they want if they got the money. Hell, they can do crime if they want! Although robbing a bank with a signature wheel chair that's pretty identifiable never end well... trust me.

I don't get caught up by hype and generally only pre-order stuff I absolutely need - i.e. Generals' Handbook, new Codex for one of my armies, etc - so I don't have this issue.

I spend more on date night than a GW kit. My wine budget is 5x my GW budget.