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I started in 1996 with 2nd edition. I played a ton of 3rd and 3.5 which lasted for 6 years. 4th and 5th lasted for just 4 years each. Then we got 2 years with 6th and another 3 years with 7th before 8th edition dropped.

So, going back to 2004 we’ve had 4 editions of 40k. I’m at a point where it almost feels like watching Activision release the next Call of Duty game on PlayStation. How many times are we going to buy another Space Marine codex?

I get it that GW is a company and doing well. In fact, I’m glad they are. However, I look at my shelf full of starter sets and editions wondering why I keep buying them? So, I’ve decided that after all these years, I’m done buying new editions. Instead, I’m going to focus on building, painting, and playing older 40k editions.

Anyone else feel this way?

 Wolflord Patrick wrote:
I started in 1996 with 2nd edition. I played a ton of 3rd and 3.5 which lasted for 6 years. 4th and 5th lasted for just 4 years each. Then we got 2 years with 6th and another 3 years with 7th before 8th edition dropped.

So, going back to 2004 we’ve had 4 editions of 40k. I’m at a point where it almost feels like watching Activision release the next Call of Duty game on PlayStation. How many times are we going to buy another Space Marine codex?

I get it that GW is a company and doing well. In fact, I’m glad they are. However, I look at my shelf full of starter sets and editions wondering why I keep buying them? So, I’ve decided that after all these years, I’m done buying new editions. Instead, I’m going to focus on building, painting, and playing older 40k editions.

Anyone else feel this way?

Nah.

I just don't buy the starter kits.

I kind of like having new editions that give me new ways to play my units, and for me, 40$ to make one particular unit or another interesting again is fine. I honestly don't need new models, I have thousands of points painted, and the group I play with uses the newest edition.

Well the way they've been treating 8e, it looks like they're planning for it to stick around for a while.

That said, as long as GW are selling their rule books, they need to keep giving players reasons to buy them. So even if we don't get a 9e any time soon, I would expect there to be a new wave of updated codices in the next couple of years.

A lot of people think GW should move over to a free rules system. I agree that having a living ruleset where you purchases printed rulebooks makes little sense. But GW's stance so far is that codices still sell well and are a collectible and desirable purchase, with all the art and lore that go along with them.

Whatever your stance on all that, if you want to play this game then for the time being you have to accept that your books will become obsolete every few years.

Case in point, in Age of Sigmar the Stormcast Eternals are on their 3rd Battletome in about 3 years, despite the rules not having substantially changed in the way they did between 7e and 8e 40k.

I’m done buying new editions.

The new edition has its flavor. The game mechanics has been simplified a bit. Now it resembles more a board game than a full-flushed table top.

 wuestenfux wrote:

I’m done buying new editions.

The new edition has its flavor. The game mechanics has been simplified a bit. Now it resembles more a board game than a full-flushed table top.

I'm always curious when people say this. In what way is it like a board game?

 Sim-Life wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I’m done buying new editions.

The new edition has its flavor. The game mechanics has been simplified a bit. Now it resembles more a board game than a full-flushed table top.

I'm always curious when people say this. In what way is it like a board game?

Mostly the introduction of Command Points and Stratagems. Everyone has a pool of a resource points they can use to pay for a wide range of abilities more or less unique to each faction. That feels kind of board gamey, but I really enjoy it for the most part even if some factions got it better than others. As is always the case!

Stux wrote:
Well the way they've been treating 8e, it looks like they're planning for it to stick around for a while.

.
.
.

Case in point, in Age of Sigmar the Stormcast Eternals are on their 3rd Battletome in about 3 years, despite the rules not having substantially changed in the way they did between 7e and 8e 40k.

You just showed example of why people can expect revisited codexes in 40k as well and generally AOS shows idea of "no more new editions!" is flat out lie. Hell GW themselves every time claim "this is the ultimate edition which we'll stick with!" every time. But new editions and codex versions are "print me money" button so they will keep doing those.

can bet in some months after all codex release we will see 8.5 edition.This is clearly a beta edition.

tneva82 wrote:

Stux wrote:
Well the way they've been treating 8e, it looks like they're planning for it to stick around for a while.

.
.
.

Case in point, in Age of Sigmar the Stormcast Eternals are on their 3rd Battletome in about 3 years, despite the rules not having substantially changed in the way they did between 7e and 8e 40k.

You just showed example of why people can expect revisited codexes in 40k as well and generally AOS shows idea of "no more new editions!" is flat out lie. Hell GW themselves every time claim "this is the ultimate edition which we'll stick with!" every time. But new editions and codex versions are "print me money" button so they will keep doing those.

Pretty much. More though I was saying that even if they do stick with 8e for a long time, they'll still find a way to make us feel like we need to re buy the books. 8.2 rulebook with all up to date errata included, and new Codexes which are sort of for the same edition but have errata and a few sweet new strats. That kind of thing.

After the last codex is out it will not take long to see a new edition. It will be the final edition, this time the only one final edition. And we all say....JAAAA.

It will be a remastered edition, with a revisión of some rules ( an 8.5 yes).

I am wrong?

Alex_85 wrote:
After the last codex is out it will not take long to see a new edition. It will be the final edition, this time the only one final edition. And we all say....JAAAA.

It will be a remastered edition, with a revisión of some rules ( an 8.5 yes).

I am wrong?

Yes. You left out the edition after that. And edition after that. And edition after that. And repeat until GW goes out.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I’m done buying new editions.

The new edition has its flavor. The game mechanics has been simplified a bit. Now it resembles more a board game than a full-flushed table top.

I'm always curious when people say this. In what way is it like a board game?

it's all about the simplicity and shallowness of 8th edition as pertaining to it being a "wargame."

Maneuvering and positioning don't really matter.

To-hit rolls are a fixed number (like they were before, but now for close combat as well)

Terrain doesn't really do anything unless it's a a solid block.

Little to no tactics past "Let's see, do I fire my lascanons at those gaunts, or the carnifex?"

Little decision making.

To name a few. 40k is more a board game now, because like many board games, things are heavily abstracted. 40k also fails to meet people's, I think reasonable, expectations as to what a wargame is. It's not quite Candyland-level, but I think board game is apt at the moment.

As far as I can tell there have been 3 editions? 1st, 2nd and 8th?

People act like it's some sinister manipulative thing. GW are just in the business of selling fancy books. That's all it is. So of course they continually setup situations to incentivise you to buy new fancy books periodically. This isn't going to change unless there is a big change in the business model for their core games.

I started 5th(Still play) skipped 6th and only played 7th cause of Eldar Corsairs. The reason to keep up with editions is if you're a nerd and need friends, competitive player or 40k some how defines your existence and if so I feel bad for you...

I think your fine Patrick, I've played 5th since it ended and kept one army sold the other(1750 DE, GK sold). 7th was an Eldar Corsairs binge(3k) which was bad for my health but love the army. Have a few small DIY ideas but no real urge to play that often. You really only need 1 or 2 buddies to play the edition you want which is my scenario. 8th is kind of nice being flexible with how an army comes together though and allows some neat 350 pt armies bout the only reason I like it. My conclusion was I define 40k, don't let 40k define you. I mean at best out of this hobby staying consistent you get what? a gold daemon? nerd status points? Hell a crystal brush is way more worth it bro. Far as the starter kits go I feel ya, which is why I have a glass case for 40k and thats as much 40k as I allow myself(I hate clutter, and don't like 40k being an obvious thing for my own reasons.). It is less frustrating & Stressful though dealing with a favored edition. You do you bro sounds like your doing good to me. I 100% support your painting ambitions, may the Ross be with you...

I don't think its too bad when you consider that 6th and 7th were just kind of disasters that GW abandoned pretty quickly.

It is GW´s business model. You are not forced to buy the latest edition by any means. Freeze the rules and keep playing your favourite vintage edition.

Stux wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I’m done buying new editions.

The new edition has its flavor. The game mechanics has been simplified a bit. Now it resembles more a board game than a full-flushed table top.

I'm always curious when people say this. In what way is it like a board game?

Mostly the introduction of Command Points and Stratagems. Everyone has a pool of a resource points they can use to pay for a wide range of abilities more or less unique to each faction. That feels kind of board gamey, but I really enjoy it for the most part even if some factions got it better than others. As is always the case!

Resource management is just a fashionable thing wargames do now though. Warmachine, Infinity and Malifaux all have it some form, it was only a matter if time before 40k got it.

I don't mind the editions.

I did not like 2nd edition that much. I mean, I would have played it, but 3rd came and my love of 40k bloomed.

I feel 3rd, 4th, and 5th all had a similar design philosophy. There were clearly defined boundaries. 5th may have cut those a little to close to where people wanted...

Then 6th and 7th were hay-day, do whatever you want and we'll figure out a way to make it "Battleforged" so you can just plonk down minis, figure out the wombo-combo, and boom! Win-count +1 !! I liked the first half of 6th, before Knights were released as a codex. I still don't really enjoy Super Heavy type units in the game, but I don't "hate" it anymore, either.

8th is it's own bag of worms. Much like AoS, from what I understand.

To me, the game is less board game, then then it is collectible card game. You have resource management, tempo, and 3/3 primary builds in Aggro (units that are efficient damage dealers), Combo (units that become efficient when combined together), and Control (units that negate / prevent damage effectively, like -1 "to Hit" or Necron Reanimation).

In broad strokes, CCG's have Aggro > Control > Combo > Aggro and with the shifting metas brought out by new cards, the game remains interesting and in a state of flux... even if it "necessitates" power creep to make the new hotness.

I would not be surprised, at all, if GW is actively pursuing this avenue. Most game stores are kept afloat by Friday Night Magic, if you catch my drift. Regular new releases means regular purchases, keeps those stores and their suppliers in business.

I'd be perfectly comfortable with GW making a known policy of making new releases 5% to 10% undercosted, points wise, for 2 years. That would take a living ruleset, and it would lead to pay-to-win just like Magic and other games have. But, it would also be open handed, above board, and would let everyone know that yes, your old minis aren't as good as they used to be, and if you're playing someone with a brand new army you can expect to be at a minor disadvantage (assuming it's not ALL brand new stuff).

But that keeps the FLGS open, communities engaged and thriving. It keeps a rotating "hotness" and a gradually shifting meta as the old-new stuff drops in power compared to the new-new stuff.

When Tac marines get a resculpt, they get an efficiency boost for 2 years and older players get to spam them to their hearts' content and be power gamers.

 Strg Alt wrote:
It is GW´s business model. You are not forced to buy the latest edition by any means. Freeze the rules and keep playing your favourite vintage edition.

play alone? against yourself? how many players keep playing old edition when the new one come out? worse if you play at local game store you cant play older rules, cmon i play since 3rd edition and never happened players kept play older edition.

I feel your frustration.

What it comes down to for me is that these days, my hobby time and budget are in a real crunch.

However, over the years I've built up a big collection. I have maybe a dozen armies (edit: more, it turns out) of various sizes...but I simply can't afford to keep up with buying books for all of them, particularly at the rate they've been coming out this edition.

So I bought the starter set for 8th to have a physical copy of the core rules. Other than that, though, I rely on alternative methods of having the rules available for all my armies. Otherwise, I'd be blowing my entire hobby budget on scrambling to catch up on codex releases and even then I wouldn't be able to nab all of them (for reference, the only books I don't "need" for 8th edition are Death Guard, Chaos Daemons, Dark Angels, Deathwatch and Harlequins, leaving me with...14 books at a total just shy of $850 to get caught up).

I kind of wish the rules releases would slow down, honestly, or that they could have just gone with improvements on the index books or something. It's often that months go by between my being able to really sit down and do anything game-wise with the hobby and it's just too much to keep up with.

That said, I realize that this isn't necessarily a problem a lot of people have, so I accept that it is what it is. I'll keep enjoying my hobby projects and keeping up with rules sourced dubiously.

...But I will for sure buy the SoB book when it drops to show how much I appreciate that army finally getting some love.

Keeping a scifi/fantasy wargame business in profit is a tricky proposition. I've come back to GW with 8th/AoS after leaving them for a long time partly due to the way they go about making those required profits. I'm not a fan of the approach you describe but having played a lot of other games many of the companies making them are not much better in that respect.

Not really, maybe 6th/7th were too close but 4-6 years(ish) per edition seems reasonable

 blackmage wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
It is GW´s business model. You are not forced to buy the latest edition by any means. Freeze the rules and keep playing your favourite vintage edition.

play alone? against yourself? how many players keep playing old edition when the new one come out? worse if you play at local game store you cant play older rules, cmon i play since 3rd edition and never happened players kept play older edition.

You can´t expect from your experiences alone that everybody on the globe acts like your environment to my proposal. I had several 2nd 40K games in the last years and no I haven´t played against myself. You just have to find people with the right mindset and maybe this is the problem with your area. Stuff that is new is not automatically superior to old school. People just have been brainwashed by GW to invest in the latest edition of 40K because of dubious reasons.

 blackmage wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
It is GW´s business model. You are not forced to buy the latest edition by any means. Freeze the rules and keep playing your favourite vintage edition.

play alone? against yourself? how many players keep playing old edition when the new one come out? worse if you play at local game store you cant play older rules, cmon i play since 3rd edition and never happened players kept play older edition.

Have you asked anybody? I've never played in a store that gave a damn about what edition I'm playing. And their are plenty of people out there happy to play an older edition or a new game. But people don't ask. They just assume the answer is no.

Blastaar wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I’m done buying new editions.

The new edition has its flavor. The game mechanics has been simplified a bit. Now it resembles more a board game than a full-flushed table top.

I'm always curious when people say this. In what way is it like a board game?

it's all about the simplicity and shallowness of 8th edition as pertaining to it being a "wargame."

Maneuvering and positioning don't really matter.

To-hit rolls are a fixed number (like they were before, but now for close combat as well)

Terrain doesn't really do anything unless it's a a solid block.

Little to no tactics past "Let's see, do I fire my lascanons at those gaunts, or the carnifex?"

Little decision making.

To name a few. 40k is more a board game now, because like many board games, things are heavily abstracted. 40k also fails to meet people's, I think reasonable, expectations as to what a wargame is. It's not quite Candyland-level, but I think board game is apt at the moment.

Ah, the clarion call of someone who isn't very good at 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 blackmage wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
It is GW´s business model. You are not forced to buy the latest edition by any means. Freeze the rules and keep playing your favourite vintage edition.

play alone? against yourself? how many players keep playing old edition when the new one come out? worse if you play at local game store you cant play older rules, cmon i play since 3rd edition and never happened players kept play older edition.

Have you asked anybody? I've never played in a store that gave a damn about what edition I'm playing. And their are plenty of people out there happy to play an older edition or a new game. But people don't ask. They just assume the answer is no.

This being said, most people will laugh in your face if you ask them to play 6th or especially 7th unless they're 30k guys, and even then you'll be HEAVILY limited in what you're allowed to bring because your average 30k army wouldn't last 4 seconds against even a semi-competitive 40k 7th edition army.

ERJAK wrote:
Ah, the clarion call of someone who isn't very good at 40k.

Alternatively the comment of someone who has played a tactically challenging wargame...

Honestly the games not the best, but it is the most successful and the models are fun. I have nothing against it and will happily play it with friends. But if given the chance to play one of the better games around I will go for that. I have however largely given up trying to get local 40k players to try new things, they are all consumed with 40k! (Though most it seems can now be tempted by nuclear war.)

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Not really, maybe 6th/7th were too close but 4-6 years(ish) per edition seems reasonable

This. I was quite torqued off by the timing of 7th. The rulebooks have been pricy for a while now, but if you consider the life on an edition as 4ish years, they weren’t so bad. But 6th only lasted 2 years. That was a massive slap in the face. And 7th wasn’t something significantly better then 6th. Felt like a blatant money grab, and burned a lot of my good will towards the company.

But with the exception of that one edition, the pacing of new versions has been fine. There are just a lot of them because GW has been at this for a long time now.

Blastaar wrote:

To name a few. 40k is more a board game now, because like many board games, things are heavily abstracted. 40k also fails to meet people's, I think reasonable, expectations as to what a wargame is. It's not quite Candyland-level, but I think board game is apt at the moment.

Only if your board gaming experience is limited to chutes and ladders. Modern board games are abstracted, yes, to remove all baggage except critical decision making, and are more tactically challenging to play than any edition of 40k (albeit I agree that the latest is least tactical of them all)

w40k does seem to feel like a game of monopoly, when one dude gets lucky at the start with his tiels, and grind everyone else till end game for hours, and it is fun only for the winner and no one else.