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The Stratagem Cognis Heavy Stubbers allows the Heavy Stubbers in a Questor Mechanicus Detachment to shoot after advancing at a -2 to hit, however, the Relentless Advance Household tactic (Raven) makes heavy weapons count as Assault Weapon when you Advance and shoot at no penalty.

So, which is it? A -2 to hit or no penalty? Or is it -2 to hit yet fire Overwatch at normal BS?

Let’s discuss.

SJ

If one rule lets you shoot at no penalty, and another rule gives them a penalty, then clearly they shoot at no penalty.

Why would you use the stratagem if you had that Knightly house?

You're entitled to ignore the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons as per the House Raven tradition, but Cognis Heavy Stubber applies its own -2 penalty which isn't the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons, so can't be ignored.

Looks like GW either worded it poorly or didn't think out the interaction here, so perhaps one for the next round of FAQ/errata.

Just... don’t play the Stratagem, as others have suggested?

 Mr. Shine wrote:
You're entitled to ignore the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons as per the House Raven tradition, but Cognis Heavy Stubber applies its own -2 penalty which isn't the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons, so can't be ignored.

This assertion is not correct.

The Relentless Advance Household tactic (Raven) makes heavy weapons count as Assault Weapon when you Advance and shoot at no penalty.

therefore the weapons are considered assault and are shot at no penalty.

The Stratagem applies a penalty right?

I'm pretty sure that Household Tradition allows them to fire without the -1 To Hit Penalty Assault Weapons normally suffer when Advancing. No impact on any other To Hit penalties.

Ultimately, it is a case of "Why would you use the Stratagem when you can already shoot the Heavy Stubber with no penalty to Hit?"

Probably because the Stratagem also specifies that Knights with the Relentless Advance trait also get the re-roll failed to hits.

It’s a complex Stratagem, for sure.

SJ

This sounds similar to the stormboys ability and the waagh ability issue. Stormboys can advance and charge but if they do then they take d3 mortal wounds. Being within 6" of a warboss lets you waagh which lets you advance and charge. So if the stormboys are within 6 which role do they use? Do they get to advance and charge penalty free or do they take mortal wounds? Most people played it that they get to use the waagh. However some people stated that you can't ignore the d3 mortal wounds on the stormboy datasheet. Ultimately gw ruled that waagh overrode the storm boy rule. Im inclined to say that because of the ability granting no negative to hit modifier, this rule overrides the -2 from the stratagem

 alextroy wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Household Tradition allows them to fire without the -1 To Hit Penalty Assault Weapons normally suffer when Advancing. No impact on any other To Hit penalties."

Do you have any rules quotes that actually say that?

Because there is a rule stating that the Relentless Advance Household tactic (Raven) lets you Advance and shoot at no penalty.

A -2 to hit from a strat is a penalty right?

As others have said: this is not a case of "GW didn't think about this interaction of rules".

It is more of a case of "This interaction should never come up".

If you are house Raven; Then you do not need to waste CPs on the Strategem.

If you are one of the other 3 Mechanicus households; Then you could use the strategem without conflict.