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I'm really curious to see what they do with the Craftworlders for Kill Team. I don't think the "Each army has up to 6 units" is the right way to do it. A Tac squad has a lot more options than Necron Warriors or Fire Warriors or Dire Avengers.

Guardians, Rangers, and DAs are almost certainly in. But look at their kits. Rangers are still Finecast, so aren't as ammenable to kitbashing, and come with no options. So GW might not give them any, which would really suck. Guardians in theory have the Storm Guardian upgrade pack, giving them the bare bones options - nothing like Marines or Guardsmen, but enough. Dire Avenger Exarchs have a few options, but giving Dire Avenger Aspect Warriors options is a fluff problem (although they'll probably change the fluff).

So what rounds out that list? With those, that's 3 or 4 choices (depending on if Storm and Defender Guardians are listed seperately). Scorpions not making the cut would be terrible - it's what they do. Hawks and Banshees would really be "right" in this list. And Spiders feel perfect for it too. But that puts them at 7 or 8 choices already - far more than other factions!

I wish they had gone with a less rigid model than "up to 6 units". For instance, I'm hoping Tacs can take a Jet Pack when carrying ASM-capable gear, because them missing feels wrong. Similarly, modular forces (SM, Guard, etc) need fewer "unit" choices and more upgrade options to have the same depth.

CWE would do better in an alternate setup. Guardians/Rangers should be as customizable as their kit lets them be. But instead of about 5 "units" that you can highly tailor, CWE should have access to even more "units", but with almost no options, in the form of Aspect Warriors. So Guardians/Rangers would be like other factions, but add Dire Avenger, Swooping Hawk, Fire Dragon, Striking Scorpion, and Howling Banshee Aspect Warrior options. They, individually, don't have as many options.

Further, with Leaders, I really liked how HoR did it previously. Guardians and Rangers don't have a Sarge (although having that added, some sort of "first among equals" with no stat buff but the leader designation would be appropriate). But being lead by a Seer (Warlock) or an Exarch (of any of the included Aspects) would be really cool. As those guys are very characterful and customizable.

Again, this would lead to more unit options on paper than any other faction, but with the lesser breadth of customization, still not more diverse than a SM kill team.

If they don't go that route, and I'm wishlisting here, but maybe they'll pull out the 7E Corsairs options for Guardians and Rangers. That thing was a beauty. In an ideal world, we'd get both, but that won't happen. I'm expecting a punt.

Also, note that I haven't mentioned Windriders or Shining Spears. I don't recall anyone else getting Bikes. If any faction did, it seems either DE or CWE would be appropriate. But if nobody else has them, it's best that Eldar don't get them either.

(Edit - the IG list just came out. I like the list at first glance - 3 units, but in theory those units have tons of options. So they didn't feel the need to keep the numbers the same. That's a *really* good thing.)

It's going to suck. That's all I've got. If the Ork preview was anything to go by, Kill Team just lost my interest.

 Elbows wrote:
It's going to suck. That's all I've got. If the Ork preview was anything to go by, Kill Team just lost my interest.

I won´t be buying it either but why was the Ork preview so bad?

 Elbows wrote:
It's going to suck. That's all I've got. If the Ork preview was anything to go by, Kill Team just lost my interest.

Making conclusions before a page of rules has even been read. Good ole Dakka.

I'm not really sure what people expected as far as units go.

AM was of course going to have infantry and scions and probably nothing else. Marines were never going to have more than 3 options, what's the difference between a Dev marine and a Tac marine? But maybe GK will get terminators...

I will admit Eldar seem in an awkward spot with their model range. I wouldn't really fret over it though.

I’d be surprised not to see Scorps in there; after all, Orks get Kommandos for thematic reasons, despite there not being a plastic kit. In fact, I’ve just remembered I have some metal SSs knocking about that I haven’t got round to, so I *hope* you can use them in KT.

 Elbows wrote:
It's going to suck. That's all I've got. If the Ork preview was anything to go by, Kill Team just lost my interest.

What was left out that you expected to see?

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
It's going to suck. That's all I've got. If the Ork preview was anything to go by, Kill Team just lost my interest.

What was left out that you expected to see?

Nobs

As much as I would like to see full Aspect spectrum in KT I think that two kinds of Guardians, Rangers (already FAQed) and DAs with Exarch option is the most probable way it is going to be. With heavy support platforms that gives 8 shooting oriented options and 4 CC options (two from DA exarch, two from Storm Guardians), which seems to be on par with what we know about already revealed factions.

Billagio, I thought Nobs were confirmed to be in, much like SM Sarge/IG Sarge, who isn't listed seperately?

 Billagio wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
It's going to suck. That's all I've got. If the Ork preview was anything to go by, Kill Team just lost my interest.

What was left out that you expected to see?

Nobs

I suspect we might see Nob status as a development path upgrade like sergeants.

I know only one thing for certain, tyranids will have warriors, and i don't need anything else.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/09/kill-team-focus-orks/
"a set of Kommandos is well worth it for a Kommando Boss Nob alone"
Sounds like bringing some of a unit type would unlock the Nob. Wouldn't be surprised if the same is true of Sarges/Exarchs.

Or were you looking for a killteam of pure Nobs?

My excitement for Kill Team was off the charts for literally a few months. The rather drastic limitation on playable units has tempered that quite a bit.

I too am concerned that Craftworlds especially will be in a hard place. Because of the FAQ wording regarding the special treatment Rangers are getting (playable despite no plastic kit), I strongly doubt that we'll see any of the (non-DA) Aspects as playable. I hope I'm wrong.

They did say no metal models.

No Aspects are metal. Only DAs and CH are plastic, the rest are Resin.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
It's going to suck. That's all I've got. If the Ork preview was anything to go by, Kill Team just lost my interest.

Making conclusions before a page of rules has even been read. Good ole Dakka.

Trust me, I'd like to be wrong. But the previews for Kill Team have indicated it's heading in a Shadow War: Armageddon direction with extremely limited unit options (woohoo, a whopping five models to choose from...). Maybe if they plan on expansions in the future, but there's little interest for me in such a narrow skirmish game. It sounds like you'll have more scenarios, more special rules, etc...and that's fine, but having five model options per faction doesn't interest me in the slightest.

I recently bought and converted some Hellblasters, they look so BADASS, and i cant even use them?! And now all i can use is Scouts, Tacticals, Reivers, Interessors... HUGE letdown, not even a termie, wulfen, fenrisian wolf... Heck not even the interceptors (ski jumper dudes).

What is going on?

I mean is it so hard to make rules for all of them? It means alot more money spent on different models for different reasons (for example well performing termies in Kill Team, could atleast help them push some of the models off the shelves) Im wondering if they truely are trying to make money?

Edit2: Yes im excited about kill team, and im gonna buy it for sure... Im just annoyed about GW keep makeing these "could have been perfect, but isnt" releases.

 Elbows wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
It's going to suck. That's all I've got. If the Ork preview was anything to go by, Kill Team just lost my interest.

Making conclusions before a page of rules has even been read. Good ole Dakka.

Trust me, I'd like to be wrong. But the previews for Kill Team have indicated it's heading in a Shadow War: Armageddon direction with extremely limited unit options (woohoo, a whopping five models to choose from...). Maybe if they plan on expansions in the future, but there's little interest for me in such a narrow skirmish game. It sounds like you'll have more scenarios, more special rules, etc...and that's fine, but having five model options per faction doesn't interest me in the slightest.

If you'd been paying any attention at all you'd notice that there are nobs available for orks (they specifically mention kommando boss nobz) so we know it's not as simple as that.

That doesn't blow my skirt up. If it turns out to be nothing like SWA in scope, I'll be happy. So far I've seen nothing to the contrary.

What is this "no non-plastic models" stuff people keep referring to?
If I have a plastic version of something, is it legit? Cuz I totally have plastic Aspect warriors, so I can play them right?

Theres a difference between a nob and boss nob. A nob is a large ork, a boss nob is one of those that leads a squad. For instance, a Boss Nob can lead a squad of Nobz or a Squad of Boyz/kommanos/stormboyz. I was hoping to have a kill team with a nob in it, and a boss nob could lead them

If GW has been putting much thought into this, building a CWE kill team should be like building a SM Deathwatch team - use Dire avengers as the ‘base’ elite, add gear to tweak them to a specific aspect.

At this level, it should be possible to build a CWE force that has, say, one Banshee, one Striking Scorpion, one Swooping Hawk, one Dark Reaper, a Fire Dragon and a single Wraithguard model, led by a Spiritseer/Farseer, from 3 model types but 5 different Dire Avenger loadouts. (maybe only 3-4 of those models in an actual team, but you get the idea for its composition).

 Elbows wrote:
That doesn't blow my skirt up. If it turns out to be nothing like SWA in scope, I'll be happy. So far I've seen nothing to the contrary.

So what are you wanting? Bikes, dreads, koptas, meganobz? This is old school kill team, not combat patrol so you're not getting those.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:
What is this "no non-plastic models" stuff people keep referring to?
If I have a plastic version of something, is it legit? Cuz I totally have plastic Aspect warriors, so I can play them right?

In the FAQ its suggested that with some exceptions you shouldn't expect non - plastic models to get rules at launch.

"When choosing the factions for the launch of Kill Team, we wanted to choose those armies that would plausibly be able to carry out guerilla operations as well as those with a convertible, interchangeable range of plastic models that would be easy to build specialists or other key characters from"

However we've already seen several finecast units get rules.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

So what are you wanting? Bikes, dreads, koptas, meganobz? This is old school kill team, not combat patrol so you're not getting those.

This wasn't directed at me, but I'll tell you what I wanted: something similar in scope to the Heralds of Ruin fan-made game. Basically, I wanted (and kind of expected) it to include things up to TEQ. Terminators and Wraithguard/blades specifically. I personally could go either way on bikes (I think they're generally included in the HoR version), but that's about the frontier. No dreads or vehicles. In my personal opinion, that would have been a great place to draw the line for an official 40K skirmish game. (Think old school Chaos Gate.) I am disappointed that the actual line seems to have been drawn not just short, but well short of that.

fraser1191 wrote:I'm not really sure what people expected as far as units go.

AM was of course going to have infantry and scions and probably nothing else. Marines were never going to have more than 3 options, what's the difference between a Dev marine and a Tac marine? But maybe GK will get terminators...

I will admit Eldar seem in an awkward spot with their model range. I wouldn't really fret over it though.

GW has outright said no Terminators for GK (so far).

Brutallica wrote:I recently bought and converted some Hellblasters, they look so BADASS, and i cant even use them?! And now all i can use is Scouts, Tacticals, Reivers, Interessors... HUGE letdown, not even a termie, wulfen, fenrisian wolf... Heck not even the interceptors (ski jumper dudes).

What is going on?

I mean is it so hard to make rules for all of them? It means alot more money spent on different models for different reasons (for example well performing termies in Kill Team, could atleast help them push some of the models off the shelves) Im wondering if they truely are trying to make money?

Edit2: Yes im excited about kill team, and im gonna buy it for sure... Im just annoyed about GW keep makeing these "could have been perfect, but isnt" releases.

you can use them in real 40k. If you bought models solely for a game with rules unreleased that they said would have heavy model restrictions, then that's entirely on you, don't act as though GW scammed you out of your moneys.






On top of all this - GW has said this is RELEASE STATE game, and that they will be supporting and adding to this game in the future. There may be like a Terminator update where every race gets a TEQ addition or a heavy Elite of some choice, and a heavy weapons update where everyone gets a special weapon addition etc



Tyranids is going to be interesting to see what they do though. Terms Rippers and Horms are extremely generic, Genestealers and Warriors have a bit more flavor but only Warriors has any real upgrade "choices", and other than Lictors and Pyrovores, most the rest of the dex is either Psykers or MCs.

So if they don't get to use termintors, what leaders are they going to get. GK don't have leaders that are not in either termintors or nemezis armors?

I wonder if GW changes the rules for strike special weapons. Without those doing more shots, a high cost GK army will just get swarmed every time. Unless they make GK cheaper then normal marines somehow.

On top of all this - GW has said this is RELEASE STATE game, and that they will be supporting and adding to this game in the future. There may be like a Terminator update where every race gets a TEQ addition or a heavy Elite of some choice, and a heavy weapons update where everyone gets a special weapon addition etc

yeah, but other factions termintors have stormshields or combi plasma, and are plain better then the GK ones. If GK could use terminators it would both make the faction different and give some power, if they tweeked termintor armor rules.

I mean custodes already run around with termintor armor that looks like a power armor.

Re:Warlocks/seers, I was gonna say "no psykers in Kill Team"...but then I realised Thousand Sons are a faction, so who knows?

Karol wrote:

On top of all this - GW has said this is RELEASE STATE game, and that they will be supporting and adding to this game in the future. There may be like a Terminator update where every race gets a TEQ addition or a heavy Elite of some choice, and a heavy weapons update where everyone gets a special weapon addition etc

yeah, but other factions termintors have stormshields or combi plasma, and are plain better then the GK ones. If GK could use terminators it would both make the faction different and give some power, if they tweeked termintor armor rules.

I mean custodes already run around with termintor armor that looks like a power armor.

Custodes aren't in either, for that exact reason.

Please don't turn this thread into another GK bitchfest TIA

Karol wrote:
So if they don't get to use termintors, what leaders are they going to get. GK don't have leaders that are not in either termintors or nemezis armors?

There are no character models in any of the factions previews yet. I expect Grey Knight leaders will be Grey Knight Squad Leaders just like those for every other faction.

Frankly, I won't be surprised if Grey Knights are effectively a 1 Datasheet faction, Grey Knight Strike Squad. Everything you need is in that one datasheet.