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I was introduced to 40k when I just started high school, and my father asked me if I wanted to check out a Games Workshop store that was in the local shopping mall. The store owner let me play a trial game and showed me how to paint a space marine. I was enthralled, and my father bought me the Assault on Black Reach box and a starter painting set. I left the Orks untouched and assembled the marines. I remember buying the 5th edition Wardex and poring over the lore. Fortunately, it wouldn’t be my only source of information on the 40k universe.

For my chapter, I first chose the Salamanders and bought the wrong shade of green to paint them with. I would later change my mind to Raven Guard and stick with them to this day. Devastators and sniper scouts were my first additions, followed by a predator and a unit of finecast Sternguard that I tried to stick a metal meltagun on without superglue.

My vision isn’t so great, and I am generally hopeless at painting, especially when I was younger. Exhibits such as the un-thinned globules of white covering a terminator’s helmet, and the blindingly silver missile launcher that bled its colour onto the hands holding them result in me leaving my miniatures grey out of fear. Occasionally, I break out a can of Chaos Black to base a squad, but nothing more.

I wasn’t a good player either. I didn’t know the rules properly, and made some questionable choices, like giving my devastators four different heavy weapons, or treating my five-man assault squad like some deathstar that could go toe-to-toe with genestealers.

Shortly after the release of 6th Edition, my interest in the hobby was tapering, greatly exacerbated by the guilt of having my parents pay so much for it. I took a break until the tail end of 7th (a few months before Gathering Storm was a thing) and decided to expand my marines with Blood Angels. I still lost most of my games but didn’t think much of it. It just felt nice to be back, and paying out of my own pocket.

When 8th rolled around, I was in my final year of high school and casually employed. I took another break until exams were over and returned to a more proactive and evolving scene. During this time, I also began caring about winning more. I was absorbing more media, like Forge the Narrative, Almost Pro Gaming, Frontline Gaming and 1d4chan. I think they catalysed an urge to adopt a competitive streak.

I like to think I’m not someone who chases the flavour of the month. In 5th edition, I had no vehicles, aside from a predator (although this may have been more due to monetary restrictions). In 7th, had scout bikes, but no grav bikes and no free razorback decurions. In 8th, I haven’t bought Guilliman, nor do I plan too. But at the same time, I feel like I have to.

The people in my gaming area are quite diverse with their armies. Aeldari, Necrons, Thousand Sons, Astra Militarum, etc. Whenever I face them, at best I eke out a tie, or at worst get tabled. There has almost never been a victory. I don’t blame my opponents. They run perfectly legitimate armies that they have spent their hard-earned money on. If they choose to bring Mortarion or dark reapers or whatever cheese the internet is lamenting, that’s fine.

But I’m also finding it harder and harder to justify playing in a game with what may be a sub-par force. I know that Blood Angels are one of the hardest-hitting Imperium armies, and that Raven Guard drive people insane with their ‘–1’ to hit. But I don’t think it’s enough to tide me over to success. I don’t have or want the models to make an imperial soup, and my personal preferences forbid me from giving in to more optimal choices (e.g. I can’t see Raven Guard running aggressors, so I don’t buy them to make use of Strike from the Shadows). 1W 3+ models holding S4 AP-0 guns isn’t enough, no matter how much I want it to be.

It’s frustrating, and I know part of the problem is me being trash. I know that in the end, it’s up to the player to earn the win, but what if the player just isn’t good enough? The sting of defeat has become so frequent that I’m getting desperate. Last week, I saw two guard players slugging it out at 2000 points. The one who got first turn had almost a dozen basilisks and leman russes, plus Pask. I thought “What would happen if I was on the receiving end of that?” Easy answer: I would have been destroyed. No amount of CC goodness or hiding in the shadows could have withstood that much firepower. It feels debilitating.

I just don’t know what to do. I’ve been a marine player for my entire stay at 40k. But I’m starting to feel the burn, and not in a good way. I’ve been having unwelcome thoughts about buying a Tau army. Their lines of fire warriors, broadsides and hammerheads coordinating with pathfinder and suit teams to decimate the foe is becoming more attractive by the day. Markerlights, pulse rifles, railguns. It won’t be as powerful as pre-nerf Ynnari, or Catachan brigades, but there’s a good chance it will be better than what I’m experiencing right now. Then there’s the other part of me saying that I’ll just spend hundreds of more dollars on a faction that I’ll still lose with because I’m just that bad.

I don’t know what to expect in response to this. If nothing else, this seemed like a good place to vent. But if anyone has any advice for what I could or should do, it would be a great help.

TL;DR I’m whining about my army choice of marines and feel lost about what I should do from here on.

Quit the game, if playing 40K is a chore for you. Other then that use actual terrain which blocks LOS (hills, forests, etc. with abstract rules) on your board and don´t touch the overpriced deco stuff that GW peddles to unwary customers. And now the most important advice: Play 40K with like-minded buddies.

I think most players have got to a point where they can't see going on with the army they currently have:

In 7th ed I hardly won any games with my CSM (I was a Khorne player, so there was no running Nurgle bikers and Nurgle Daemon Princes). In the end, I ended up flitting between CSM, Daemons, Renegades, FW stuff, etc. I must have tried every different kind of Chaos list; I won more games as Renegades, Daemons, other Gods, etc. but I didn't have that much fun with those armies. I finally just took a break from 40k until 8th ed.

In 8th ed I was having fun playing 8th ed Khorne Daemonkin but after the Deepstrike and Warptime nerf (killing my Daemons and Terminators respectively), I finally moved to a none Chaos army after over 10 years of nothing but Chaos. And you know what? I'm actually having fun as a Custodes player! They do what I wish a Khorne army could do!

TL : DR, take a break or try out a different army (you can always sell them again if you aren't happy with them).

Jeh, I play Orks. I mostly just enjoy reading DakkaDakka now and thinking up cool conversations using the cheap box sets gw pushes out. I used the 30k box thingy and the dsrk imperium to basically make a 1.5k army for less than a £100 so I use that for when i get bored of being beta with orks all the time.

I think you should pick up a different army, there's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept that in 40k, due to GWs inability to write balanced rules, armies wax and wane in power throughout editions. It makes sense to have at least 2 in order to weather changes, plus, sometimes a change is just refreshing anyway regardless of power balance. Eventually the pendulum will swing back in Marines' favour (maybe) and you will be eager to return to them.

Slashy McTalons wrote:
I think you should pick up a different army, there's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept that in 40k, due to GWs inability to write balanced rules, armies wax and wane in power throughout editions. It makes sense to have at least 2 in order to weather changes, plus, sometimes a change is just refreshing anyway regardless of power balance. Eventually the pendulum will swing back in Marines' favour (maybe) and you will be eager to return to them.

I second a second army even if its only 1k or so, people need to not play exclusively at 2K.
I hate to think what playing 40k with only 1 army is like, your totally dependent on the codex GW give you, they tend to do codex's in not competitive, good codex's and OP filth.
The problem with only having 1 army is you can only have fun close games with similar power codex's.
Also having a different army can help if you find yourself wanting different play styles.

Army balance comes and goes. My usual advice when someone is frustrated with their First True Love faction is to take one of three routes:

1) seek primarily fluffy, less competitive games. You CAN do this. it is allowed. For every frustrated marine player out there right now, there's a bunch of other frustrated people annoyed that their ork list, or their necron list, or their all-wraith eldar list, or their GSC list, or their all-rubric Thousand Sons list, or their whatever list is currently underperforming and they'd be happy to take the competitive gloves off and play chill. Just don't get so thirsty for a win that you arrange a chill game and show up with something as optimized as you can make.

2) Take a large collection and make an optimized list. Purge any and all scub mentalities from your mind, and commit at least a third of your list to the current competitive hotness. I know a guy with an amazing centerpiece hero marine figure who has always run him as a captain on a bike, and was getting so frustrated with his performance and the army in general and so much of it turned around when he started running that figure as guilliman, trimmed all the unnecessary junk from his list and ran what's good. People get in their own heads about game balance, and a lot of the time when someone says "X army can't ever win" they mean "X army can't ever win...when I play what I've always played and make no adjustments because I refuse to."

3) Give it a break and collect a second army. I'm biased, because I love doing this, I get so sick of painting the same schemes and playing the same styles of army, so I own almost half a dozen armies at this point after 15 years of playing. But my orks, my overall favorites, have been shelfwarming for most of two editions now, because GW hasn't learned to write rules that don't make you feel like you're punished for playing the goofy faction everyone gets to laugh at. It was the flyers that were the last straw for me: Want to use your once per game bomb? roll 2d6. On a 3-11, you get to use your bomb. On a 2, your 150pt plane instantly dies - HAW HAW STUPID ORKS. On a 12, you get to fire a pair of extra BS5 heavy bolters in addition to your bomb - WOW, SUCH RISK, VERY REWARD!

Hi. A second army could be a choice. I also think some day Marines will get a buff ( I hope). I also loot most of my games with Ultramarines against Drukhari ( the army I had most matches against). But, okay,

I have to deal with it. I came back to the hobby from 4th, and in 8th I realise SM are not more those esasy guys. I lost my first match, won the second with luck, lost the third,the next and the next. Now I ordered more SM and will see how next match will be.

One question Crimson: are you playing with tactical objectives? SInce I do I enjoy games also if I loose.

Play smaller games with cooler people.

Killteam and combat patrol are both excellent game variants, with a ton of rulesets to choose from.

Smaller games involve less models, so you can just use the ones you have painted. They also have less scope for artillery squadron/giant death robot nonsense.

You seem dedicated to your army and the 40k lore, so I would not recommend quitting or buying new army because it has better rules. My bet would be to try and find a like minded opponent and play them regularly. Not everyone plays the meanest codexes or lists. Finding such an opponent would probably lead to more even games and less frustration.

This could require you to look for other nearby gaming clubs.

Holy Emprah, thank you for all the replies.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Quit the game, if playing 40K is a chore for you. Other then that use actual terrain which blocks LOS (hills, forests, etc. with abstract rules) on your board and don´t touch the overpriced deco stuff that GW peddles to unwary customers. And now the most important advice: Play 40K with like-minded buddies.

I'll definitely try to get more terrain on the boards in the future. As much as it sounds like I'm turning the hobby into another job, I do care about and enjoy it.

 mrhappyface wrote:
TL : DR, take a break or try out a different army (you can always sell them again if you aren't happy with them).

That seems like a good compromise. I don't want to quit, or take another break from 40k yet. It's let me meet some great people, and can be fun as hell. But yeah, maybe it's time to expand.

 lolman1c wrote:
Jeh, I play Orks. I mostly just enjoy reading DakkaDakka now and thinking up cool conversations using the cheap box sets gw pushes out. I used the 30k box thingy and the dsrk imperium to basically make a 1.5k army for less than a £100 so I use that for when i get bored of being beta with orks all the time.

My condolences to you, greenskin. I think I'm a bit too far down the rabbit hole to take a casual approach with my marines, but I might be able to do so with another army.

Ice_can wrote:

Slashy McTalons wrote:
I think you should pick up a different army, there's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept that in 40k, due to GWs inability to write balanced rules, armies wax and wane in power throughout editions. It makes sense to have at least 2 in order to weather changes, plus, sometimes a change is just refreshing anyway regardless of power balance. Eventually the pendulum will swing back in Marines' favour (maybe) and you will be eager to return to them.

I second a second army even if its only 1k or so, people need to not play exclusively at 2K.
I hate to think what playing 40k with only 1 army is like, your totally dependent on the codex GW give you, they tend to do codex's in not competitive, good codex's and OP filth.
The problem with only having 1 army is you can only have fun close games with similar power codex's.
Also having a different army can help if you find yourself wanting different play styles.

Thanks. It's been too easy to forget that marines were in the S Tier last year. I guess I'm still in the pre-8th mindset where I expect a status quo to last for half a decade or more before GW finally updates a faction. I'll keep an eye out for the next FAQ and Chapter Approved. Although I'd argue that Raven Guard and Blood Angels are more like 1.5 armies, I can definitely see your point in having more options.

the_scotsman wrote:
Army balance comes and goes. My usual advice when someone is frustrated with their First True Love faction is to take one of three routes:

1) seek primarily fluffy, less competitive games...

2) Take a large collection and make an optimized list...

3) Give it a break and collect a second army...

Any of those three sounds reasonable. I guess I'll just have to adjust to a less negative mindset.

Alex_85 wrote:
Hi. A second army could be a choice. I also think some day Marines will get a buff ( I hope). I also loot most of my games with Ultramarines against Drukhari ( the army I had most matches against). But, okay,

I have to deal with it. I came back to the hobby from 4th, and in 8th I realise SM are not more those esasy guys. I lost my first match, won the second with luck, lost the third,the next and the next. Now I ordered more SM and will see how next match will be.

One question Crimson: are you playing with tactical objectives? SInce I do I enjoy games also if I loose.

The majority of my games are about kill points (+ slay the warlord, first blood, linebreaker). None of the players really care about tactical objective cards, but I can definitely see about getting more holding objectives on the board. I just don't think it'll be enough to tip the balance, considering most of my games end with me conceding with one or two units left.

 =Angel= wrote:
Play smaller games with cooler people.

Killteam and combat patrol are both excellent game variants, with a ton of rulesets to choose from.

Smaller games involve less models, so you can just use the ones you have painted. They also have less scope for artillery squadron/giant death robot nonsense.

A logical suggestion. I'll certainly consider it.

Gitdakka wrote:
You seem dedicated to your army and the 40k lore, so I would not recommend quitting or buying new army because it has better rules. My bet would be to try and find a like minded opponent and play them regularly. Not everyone plays the meanest codexes or lists. Finding such an opponent would probably lead to more even games and less frustration.

This could require you to look for other nearby gaming clubs.

I'd be hesitant to go out of my current gaming group, but you have a point with looking for other players. I won't toss aside my love for marines, but if need be, I think I can make room for another faction, while also acknowledging my roots in the Imperium.

"The majority of my games are about kill points"


/Begin Adam Savage Voice/ "Well there's ya problem right there." /End Adam Savage Voice/

Put three Objective markers on the table. Only Troops get Objective Secured and can claim Objectives. Closest Troops unit within 12" of an Objective at the end of each turn scores a Victory Point.

You can add in other Victory Point conditions like killing your opponent's Warlord, or having a unit in your opponent's Deployment Zone at the end of the last turn. Also, every players Army Book has Stratagems that can generate army specific Victory Points.

Under this system it is possible to table your opponent by turn six and NOT win the game if you ignore Objectives & Victory Points.

The game is a poor and broken thing without missions and objectives. Insist on using them.

It is so fun see your rivals face when he drops his tactical objectives and they are very hard to make. But sometimes yours are impossible. This makes the game so fun and different.

I think it's a good idea for players to see other armies. I know that might sound like a troll line but I think people get too invested in their favorite army if they focus on it all the time. I think expanding beyond your favorite and giving them a serious shot helps expand your perception of the game. Now you might see that other armies might have issues you didn't see before or that they might be good now, but sucked in earlier editions. You'd also have a different army to play and experiment with while your waiting for your favorite's next codex to hopefully bounce back.

I started when the Tau were released and still consider them my favorite army. There original codex was not good though and when I had a grasp of the game I found that I couldn't beat moderate players unless their dice were against them. I got fed up with it and eventually went over to Chaos 3.0 because no one else played them and even today you can still do way more with army building than you can do with Tau. Had I just stayed with Tau, I think I would be far more annoyed with how GW has changed them over the years. For example, they stated that the idea of giant robots was actually seen as very impractical (which they are) and that broadsides were the biggest battle suits got. I accepted this and started looking forward to more hovercrafts. Now I'm only slightly annoyed about riptides and such as I realize that giant robots will sell more than hover tanks. Had I not branched out I might be fuming that they go against fluff, for example. Perspective can be effected by how much you focus on one thing.

This is a rough edition for Marines.

If you are getting frustrated with the game you might want to hang up your dice for a bit. GeeDubs will never put out a good and balanced rule set (well never is a long time but they won't make good rules for a long time) its not their business model.

If you want to keep playing you will need to change armies to win. There are two ways to do that, first start allying in other forces. Costodes and knights are new and hot.

2. Pick a completely different army, different fluff different feel different style. Don't pick an army that you think will play how you wish the Marines played, I think you will be frustrated by that.

If you want to win you will have to get good as well. Which means practice and unlearning some bad habits (you say you have some) see if you can swap armies for a match. If you are friends with the other players, and you aren not clumsy. Get a feel for how a good list from a decent codex plays.


But if its frustrating you more thsn its fun, give it a rest. Don't chase the dragon.

I've been playing classic 5th edition games and 7th with friends. I don't have the opportunity to get pick up games. So I go with friends that have classic armies.

Perhaps try classic 40k 4th edition to 7th.

Missions. objectives, different end goals.
Fact is Killpoints favours certain armies waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more.
Take 7th: CSM were not able to put enough dakka out for Killpoints, especially after the hellturkey nerf(s). Tau on the other hand had with Riptides etc. alot of sucess in regards to "eternal war" aka killpoints.
However they lacked transports and troop choices that were able to stick around an objective, ergo i had my wins with a pure CSM list against the Tau and my losses.
General advice, don't just play one mission type:
Heck KotH, is viable, 3,5,7,9 mission markers is viable.
Killpoints is just a make or break scenario for most armies, and that is the problem, not enough dmg output because you pay to much for "premium durability" --> massive problems in that mission.
Now regular CSM and normal Marines fall heavily in that category.
Also since you play regular marines, just soup. IG gives you the numbers.
Also there is no- to much down the rabbit hole competitive mentality that can't be changed, just regard it as a additional handicap/challange. Take suboptimal units out for a spin and try to make them work. This there would be teaching you how to play better in the long run.

as for Orkz. Rest in pieces. never forget my flying circus orklist with 2 dakkajets and one burnabomba.

Hi CI,

It seems you have three issues here:

Painting is not your interest

Your army is outmatched

Other players are better gamers

I can offer some options, you may think them radical.

As to painting, spray paint is your friend. If your marines are one, solid colour they will look like a unified force - always good for morale You could then add details at your leisure.

With regard to the army/skill points, ask your opponents for a points advantage. Given your track record, reducing their points by a few hundred to give you a sporting chance would be a challenge for them.

If you want to improve your game experience, try running a campaign. Get a map of NZ, rope in your opponents, randomly generate a start town and objective for each. Players will be less casual with their forces if:

They have limited knowledge of opponents dispositions.

Their losses will not be automatically made up.

Cheers,

M

First insist to your friends about tactical objectives

Tactical objectives will help, that or custom scenarios which help improve your narrative experience would help too.

That, or maybe look out there to see if any other army peaks your interest. I've been debating trading my marines for Tyranids, but I keep walking back from the brink of the decision every once in a while.