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With all the new armored units coming out ,armigers/knights etc, do you think assault marines should be allowed to take meltas as special weapons instead of the generic flamer?

Blood Angels already can, it's hardly the ultimate weapon to stop a knight. I would rely on other weapons, even other ones in the space marine codex, before I'd rely on space marines with meltas as my main antiarmor weapon.

I say yes, they are assault weapons after all, even if you have to deploy them without JP's to use them

Erm, even if ASM could take meltas they would still be a very weak answer to knights.

wouldn't it be better to have plasma on them. 2 on the squad and a combi plasma on the squad leader, on a fast moving unit could work nice.

I have meltas on my Chaos assault marines. You get two per squad, but it still doesn't get enough work done. Can land, do a bit of damage to one vehicle, rarely killing a solid tank.

As others have noted, BA have access to Meltaguns on their assault squads, and (used to?) have access to Plasmaguns. Add a combi-weapon to the sarge and you have a unit analogous to a devestator squad, but faster and with special weapons instead. When I changed from BA to Ult-Redmarines in 7th edition, it was pretty much the only unit I missed.

Drop melts may not get the job done by itself, but it can easily be a finishing move after hitting a target for a turn with other guns, or to create a movement dilemma for your opponent. Do they deal with the threat behind, that may steal an objective, or do they continue their planned advance and risk the harm the jump packers may wreak.

I'd use them with Sallies, if they were available.

The meltagun is itself a little meh. It's ok, but the single shot nature and the range means it's very swingy and difficult to get into position.

As such, it's not enough to make a unit as poor as assault marines good. Tacking an ok thing onto a bad thing doesn't make a good thing.

Assault marines can't really be fixed without addressing the bigger issues with power armour units this edition, bit if you were going to try and fix it with guns you could maybe let the whole squad take special weapons. At that point, maybe they could get something done.

The only problem with the melta is the fact that it's 3 points less than a lascannon.

How many points would a 5-man assault squad, with 2x Meltagun and a combi-melta cost? With jump packs.

120 points, ish? {Edit: 133 pts} With Sallies, you get to re-roll a miss, unless Vulkan is around and then you can re-roll all Melta misses. You'd get 3 hits most of the time (very loose math) with just the basic Sally re-roll.

I'd say a mostly consistent 5 or more wounds, even at "long" range.

That's about what you can count on. I run my squads of seven. While I could sneak an extra melta on a combi-melta for the champion, it's a bit too pricey so I deal with two. If you're super serious and need to burn a CP to re-roll a hit that's maybe worth it. Less worth it if your target has a reliable invuln. Even with two meltas you'd have to be awfully lucky to kill a tank.

A dreadnought is a suitable target, or a wounded vehicle...also good for speeders, etc.

Assault Squads are complete and total cabbage. They need a second attack or a points reduction to be even remotely viable. Allowing them to take meltaguns would not fix them, as meltaguns themselves are overcosted, as are flamers and gravguns (which is why everyone uses plasma).

BA can take Company Vets that do this, and SW can take combi jump Wolf Guard. Neither unit is really very competitive. I don't know I can be persuaded that making the unit 15 points cheaper (for the basic Assault Marine profile) is going to accomplish that much.

You can take Plasma Inceptors, who are basically the same, but better. I think those are generally a "good enough" anti-tank jump unit. They could be stronger, but so could most other SM units honestly.

I will agree that assault marines are complete pants. Again, as a narrative gamer I occasionally take them and they're always gak. I have equipped both squads with some special weapons for a deep strike attack...but beyond that, just complete gak.

Honestly, that would require Meltaguns to be good. Plasma, now maybe. Melta? No.

Quality of melta aside, it does push the squad towards a shooting / MSU tactical squad alternative rather than an _assault_ squad which is somewhat contrary to their theme, even if the weapon is a close range one.

That having been said it is already an option for some.

A.T. wrote:
Quality of melta aside, it does push the squad towards a shooting / MSU tactical squad alternative rather than an _assault_ squad which is somewhat contrary to their theme, even if the weapon is a close range one.

That having been said it is already an option for some.

Assault doesn't literally mean melee combat though. Quick short ranged warfare would qualify as assault.

The thing is that paying marine prices for a model and not having any AP and limited to S4 attacks does not make a viable melee unit. You NEED power weapons at that point level, plus more than 1 attack, and that's what Vanguard are for.

Assault squads simply don't have a niche.

A.T. wrote:
Quality of melta aside, it does push the squad towards a shooting / MSU tactical squad alternative rather than an _assault_ squad which is somewhat contrary to their theme, even if the weapon is a close range one.

That having been said it is already an option for some.

Assault squads that pilot speeders are assault squads without cc, and assault squads on bikes are shooting assault squads.

It’s disappointing that, since jump packs and were supposedly an elite unit in the crusade and Heresy, HH assault squads weren’t packless marines who had specials, like special weapon havocs. The condition of selling differentiated kits is a likely cause for that.

Any squad that has only short range weapons and isn’t a buffing unit bodyguard is fundamentally an assault squad. A guard or marine squad with lasguns and bolters, no ccws or chainswords, and multiple specials is an assault squad.