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Andykp wrote:
To the imperium the cost is totally worth it. I imagine that this policy was born out of experience. Warp incursion, army deal with it, then later....bigger worse warp incursion. I think the problem is, knowing of chaos allows chaos to start manipulating and tempting u. Most could only resist so long. Especially as most imperial citizens lives aren’t great. Eventually they would turn. And also the cost of an indoctrination process like you suggest isn’t low. A billion worlds???

Let’s assume that the emperor did trick chaos, and he did say he’d tell everyone about chaos. We could assume the emperor understood the nature of chaos a bit, hence his alleged betrayal.

He would therefore have a very strong suspicion that what chaos wanted wouldn’t be good for the dream of humanity he had. And we can too then.

So we can also assume that if he had done what chaos had wanted it would have been bad for humanity and good for chaos. Probably very very bad. Like living in the eye of terror bad.

You don't know if it's worth it, because they've never done otherwise. They assume its worth it. The Astartes know about Chaos and their training etc. makes them less susceptible to turning traitor than the HH. My question is 'could he have done it another way.' Could he have been wrong. I mean a hell of a lot of people know about chaos, they still work fine within the Imperium with this knowledge, yes there are traitors but they are the minority otherwise the Imperium could function if everyone that knew about chaos turned. Obviously its nowhere near the same as average joes knowing but, could the Emperor implemented some way for them to know. As with the great rift, I don't see them keeping it a secret, especially with all the areas cut off from the rest of the Imperium.

He could have very easily done things differently in a lot of ways. Some of those ways would probably have been much better. He was wrong about a fair few things and he wouldn't be the first to be wrong about Chaos.

pm713 wrote:
He could have very easily done things differently in a lot of ways. Some of those ways would probably have been much better. He was wrong about a fair few things and he wouldn't be the first to be wrong about Chaos.

True. Mornarchia for instance was a cluster feth. I always wondered though did the Emperor use Lorgars religious views as a reason to destroy Mornarchia because he realised how much taint existed within the city.

No it’s clear He is a simple being that punished Lorgar because he spent too long building shrines to the Emperor rather than just conquering worlds and moving on.

Mellow wrote:
No it’s clear He is a simple being that punished Lorgar because he spent too long building shrines to the Emperor rather than just conquering worlds and moving on.

"Simple being" lol, are you maybe just upset that your Primarch got his feelings hurt. In all seriousness if the Emperor is simple I don't know who isn't.

I suspect the emperor wished to Galvanize Lorgar to move faster. it might have even worked had Kor Phaneon and Erebus not been there to pour poison in his ears

“Your Primarch”

Lorgar isn’t my Primarch. I was saying Lorgar was too slow for the simple plan of “conquer planets quickly”

Mellow wrote:
“Your Primarch”

Lorgar isn’t my Primarch. I was saying Lorgar was too slow for the simple plan of “conquer planets quickly”

Why are you so touchy when it comes to the Emperor then?

I’m not touchy. Coming from you and the way you have responded to others on this forum that comment is quite rich.

Mellow wrote:
I’m not touchy. Coming from you and the way you have responded to others on this forum that comment is quite rich.

I don't mean touchy against me, I mean touchy against the Emperor? I think he gets a bit of a raw deal from the fans. Everyone is blaming him, 'look how he treated x) but if it were not for the Primarchs petty failings, the Imperium would be in amazing shape, with the webway and everything People think the Emperor is some infallible and that he should have seen all this coming, he admitted himself that he couldn't.

“I know some people think me omnipotent. But there is a catch with being all powerful and all knowing” “You can't be both at the same time”

Really? The man actively turned his sons away from him, butchered people loyal to him and decided mass genocide was a good thing all for a plan that was altogether terrible. He sucks plain and simple.

pm713 wrote:
Really? The man actively turned his sons away from him, butchered people loyal to him and decided mass genocide was a good thing all for a plan that was altogether terrible. He sucks plain and simple.

And where would humanity be without him. They'd have died fighting each other as the techno barbarians on a resource-less world. He extended the life span of the human race 10,000 years. He had no idea that Chaos would turn his sons, you are only thinking he is terrible because you have the luxury of hindsight. Take Horus, he never thought he could fall so far as to not being able to be brought back.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Really? The man actively turned his sons away from him, butchered people loyal to him and decided mass genocide was a good thing all for a plan that was altogether terrible. He sucks plain and simple.

And where would humanity be without him. They'd have died fighting each other like the techno barbarians. He had no idea that Chaos would turn his sons, you are only thinking he is terrible because you have the luxury of hindsight.

He didn't need Chaos to lose his sons. He made one of them vanish so all his family were murdered, he told one to abandon his quest for knowledge to better humanity while doing it himself just because and planned to turn him into a glorified battery, he publicly humiliated one while destroying what was quite possibly the best thing he'd done in life so far, he made one wander into toxic smoke just to take away the victory he worked for for years rather than help him, he shoved one to the sidelines giving him no recognition while his legion suffered siege after siege but glory went to all the others, he had two sons and their legions exterminated and their legions wiped from history, he made one of his sons gene seed so that his legionaries could turn into monsters and another so that the legionaries would go insane.

Almost half the Primarchs had something bad happen to him and the rest had little reason to follow the Emperor who would kill them all off without a thought. Why? For his plan. A terrible plan to move into the Webway which would just cause an incredibly brutal war against a superior foe. The Imperium would lose the numbers advantage but have to fight to take over a labyrinth that actively tried to block them in, with nothing better than scout TItans against an enemy that can bring starships to bear against them with better soldiers, better psychic powers and if a single Eldar went radical they could easily destroy the whole Webway with D weaponry.

All the cruelty, mistreatment, war and genocide to enact an incredibly risky plan with no guarantee of payoff where the people doing the fighting would just be shoved to the side afterwards at best.

Without the Emperor humanity would be better off. Some would be on worlds like Terra yes, but some like the Interex, Diasporex and Heliosans were pretty happy. Then there were middle ground civilisations like the Olamic Quietude. Where is humanity without the Emperor? Pretty okay. They're all over, many are happy and able to live in peace and there's no genocidal jackass feeding off their life force ruling them. The Emperor just brings humanity closer to extinction not the extension bs.

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Really? The man actively turned his sons away from him, butchered people loyal to him and decided mass genocide was a good thing all for a plan that was altogether terrible. He sucks plain and simple.

And where would humanity be without him. They'd have died fighting each other like the techno barbarians. He had no idea that Chaos would turn his sons, you are only thinking he is terrible because you have the luxury of hindsight.

He didn't need Chaos to lose his sons. He made one of them vanish so all his family were murdered, he told one to abandon his quest for knowledge to better humanity while doing it himself just because and planned to turn him into a glorified battery, he publicly humiliated one while destroying what was quite possibly the best thing he'd done in life so far, he made one wander into toxic smoke just to take away the victory he worked for for years rather than help him, he shoved one to the sidelines giving him no recognition while his legion suffered siege after siege but glory went to all the others, he had two sons and their legions exterminated and their legions wiped from history, he made one of his sons gene seed so that his legionaries could turn into monsters and another so that the legionaries would go insane.

Almost half the Primarchs had something bad happen to him and the rest had little reason to follow the Emperor who would kill them all off without a thought. Why? For his plan. A terrible plan to move into the Webway which would just cause an incredibly brutal war against a superior foe. The Imperium would lose the numbers advantage but have to fight to take over a labyrinth that actively tried to block them in, with nothing better than scout TItans against an enemy that can bring starships to bear against them with better soldiers, better psychic powers and if a single Eldar went radical they could easily destroy the whole Webway with D weaponry.

All the cruelty, mistreatment, war and genocide to enact an incredibly risky plan with no guarantee of payoff where the people doing the fighting would just be shoved to the side afterwards at best.

Without the Emperor humanity would be better off. Some would be on worlds like Terra yes, but some like the Interex, Diasporex and Heliosans were pretty happy. Then there were middle ground civilisations like the Olamic Quietude. Where is humanity without the Emperor? Pretty okay. They're all over, many are happy and able to live in peace and there's no genocidal jackass feeding off their life force ruling them. The Emperor just brings humanity closer to extinction not the extension bs.

Again all of this is with the luxury of hindsight, he didn't know they'd be corrupted by chaos, so it wouldn't matter the way he treated them, it only matters to you because you know that they were going to end up being corrupted. He also did those things for a reason, just because they ended up coming round to bite him in the arse doesn't mean he had to have foreseen it, as he didn't. They were weapons and he treated them as such, the Primarchs are far higher beings that humans, to me they are just boo hooing, its them who failed because their ego's were so fragile, that they could take a moment of humility or follow an order.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Really? The man actively turned his sons away from him, butchered people loyal to him and decided mass genocide was a good thing all for a plan that was altogether terrible. He sucks plain and simple.

And where would humanity be without him. They'd have died fighting each other like the techno barbarians. He had no idea that Chaos would turn his sons, you are only thinking he is terrible because you have the luxury of hindsight.

He didn't need Chaos to lose his sons. He made one of them vanish so all his family were murdered, he told one to abandon his quest for knowledge to better humanity while doing it himself just because and planned to turn him into a glorified battery, he publicly humiliated one while destroying what was quite possibly the best thing he'd done in life so far, he made one wander into toxic smoke just to take away the victory he worked for for years rather than help him, he shoved one to the sidelines giving him no recognition while his legion suffered siege after siege but glory went to all the others, he had two sons and their legions exterminated and their legions wiped from history, he made one of his sons gene seed so that his legionaries could turn into monsters and another so that the legionaries would go insane.

Almost half the Primarchs had something bad happen to him and the rest had little reason to follow the Emperor who would kill them all off without a thought. Why? For his plan. A terrible plan to move into the Webway which would just cause an incredibly brutal war against a superior foe. The Imperium would lose the numbers advantage but have to fight to take over a labyrinth that actively tried to block them in, with nothing better than scout TItans against an enemy that can bring starships to bear against them with better soldiers, better psychic powers and if a single Eldar went radical they could easily destroy the whole Webway with D weaponry.

All the cruelty, mistreatment, war and genocide to enact an incredibly risky plan with no guarantee of payoff where the people doing the fighting would just be shoved to the side afterwards at best.

Without the Emperor humanity would be better off. Some would be on worlds like Terra yes, but some like the Interex, Diasporex and Heliosans were pretty happy. Then there were middle ground civilisations like the Olamic Quietude. Where is humanity without the Emperor? Pretty okay. They're all over, many are happy and able to live in peace and there's no genocidal jackass feeding off their life force ruling them. The Emperor just brings humanity closer to extinction not the extension bs.

Again all of this is with the luxury of hindsight, he didn't know they'd be corrupted by chaos, so it wouldn't matter the way he treated them, it only matters to you because you know that they were going to end up being corrupted. He also did those things for a reason, just because they ended up coming round to bite him in the arse doesn't mean he had to have foreseen it, as he didn't.

They were people. The way they were treated matters hugely. I don't need hindsight to say that the Emperor made lots of bad choices. He had reasons, yes, like wanting effective tools. But they were people not tools and that was a basic fact he should have known.

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Really? The man actively turned his sons away from him, butchered people loyal to him and decided mass genocide was a good thing all for a plan that was altogether terrible. He sucks plain and simple.

And where would humanity be without him. They'd have died fighting each other like the techno barbarians. He had no idea that Chaos would turn his sons, you are only thinking he is terrible because you have the luxury of hindsight.

He didn't need Chaos to lose his sons. He made one of them vanish so all his family were murdered, he told one to abandon his quest for knowledge to better humanity while doing it himself just because and planned to turn him into a glorified battery, he publicly humiliated one while destroying what was quite possibly the best thing he'd done in life so far, he made one wander into toxic smoke just to take away the victory he worked for for years rather than help him, he shoved one to the sidelines giving him no recognition while his legion suffered siege after siege but glory went to all the others, he had two sons and their legions exterminated and their legions wiped from history, he made one of his sons gene seed so that his legionaries could turn into monsters and another so that the legionaries would go insane.

Almost half the Primarchs had something bad happen to him and the rest had little reason to follow the Emperor who would kill them all off without a thought. Why? For his plan. A terrible plan to move into the Webway which would just cause an incredibly brutal war against a superior foe. The Imperium would lose the numbers advantage but have to fight to take over a labyrinth that actively tried to block them in, with nothing better than scout TItans against an enemy that can bring starships to bear against them with better soldiers, better psychic powers and if a single Eldar went radical they could easily destroy the whole Webway with D weaponry.

All the cruelty, mistreatment, war and genocide to enact an incredibly risky plan with no guarantee of payoff where the people doing the fighting would just be shoved to the side afterwards at best.

Without the Emperor humanity would be better off. Some would be on worlds like Terra yes, but some like the Interex, Diasporex and Heliosans were pretty happy. Then there were middle ground civilisations like the Olamic Quietude. Where is humanity without the Emperor? Pretty okay. They're all over, many are happy and able to live in peace and there's no genocidal jackass feeding off their life force ruling them. The Emperor just brings humanity closer to extinction not the extension bs.

Again all of this is with the luxury of hindsight, he didn't know they'd be corrupted by chaos, so it wouldn't matter the way he treated them, it only matters to you because you know that they were going to end up being corrupted. He also did those things for a reason, just because they ended up coming round to bite him in the arse doesn't mean he had to have foreseen it, as he didn't.

They were people. The way they were treated matters hugely. I don't need hindsight to say that the Emperor made lots of bad choices. He had reasons, yes, like wanting effective tools. But they were people not tools and that was a basic fact he should have known.

You knowing he made mistakes is completely contingent on what happened after the fact. He did know that fact, he talked to Ra about it, Ra asked him why he allows them to call him father and the Emperor recalled the story in pinochio that they needed to see him as such. They were tools, they could never admit that to themselves, they didn't have the wisdom or the humility to realise that. The Custodes show far more wisdom and humility than the Primarchs. They acted like big babies, having temper tantrums and couldn't see past their own selfish needs.

No they were people. That's obvious. The Emperor was the one who couldn't see things clearly which caused a whole bunch of problems.

I don't need to know what happens in the future to say causing someones entire family to die, making war their only motive and then planning to get rid of them later is a bad idea.

pm713 wrote:
No they were people. That's obvious. The Emperor was the one who couldn't see things clearly which caused a whole bunch of problems.

I don't need to know what happens in the future to say causing someones entire family to die, making war their only motive and then planning to get rid of them later is a bad idea.

The Emperor did treat them like people and even sons, you pick a handful of moments when he was an donkey-cave and say 'look they are people, treat them as such' Only chaos said the Emperor would get rid of them. The emperor chastised me and humiliated me I'm going to follow the chaos gods, I mean seriously, who thought Lorgar would be so ridiculously petty and thin skinned. Don't study sorcery. I mean are these that monumental it would lead supposedly enlightened beings to selling their souls.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
No they were people. That's obvious. The Emperor was the one who couldn't see things clearly which caused a whole bunch of problems.

I don't need to know what happens in the future to say causing someones entire family to die, making war their only motive and then planning to get rid of them later is a bad idea.

The Emperor did treat them like people and even sons, you pick a handful of moments when he was an donkey-cave and say 'look they are people, treat them as such' Only chaos said the Emperor would get rid of them.

And logic. He killed two of them off and how many Thunder Warriors stuck around? None because somebody killed them all off.

No, he pretended they were people to him and thought of them as tools. Hence the awful way they were treated causing issues. The Emperor is not a good person or leader or guide for humanity. Deal with it.

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
No they were people. That's obvious. The Emperor was the one who couldn't see things clearly which caused a whole bunch of problems.

I don't need to know what happens in the future to say causing someones entire family to die, making war their only motive and then planning to get rid of them later is a bad idea.

The Emperor did treat them like people and even sons, you pick a handful of moments when he was an donkey-cave and say 'look they are people, treat them as such' Only chaos said the Emperor would get rid of them.

And logic. He killed two of them off and how many Thunder Warriors stuck around? None because somebody killed them all off.

No, he pretended they were people to him and thought of them as tools. Hence the awful way they were treated causing issues. The Emperor is not a good person or leader or guide for humanity. Deal with it.

And another point in logic is that he was going to keep them around as statesmen and a kind of policing force. Yeah he did pretend, so what. The awful way he treated them, give me a break. boo hoo. The emperor chastised me and humiliated me I'm going to follow the chaos gods, I mean seriously, who thought Lorgar would be so ridiculously petty and thin skinned. Don't study sorcery. I mean are these that monumental it would lead supposedly enlightened beings to selling their souls. He saved my life and didn't allow me to die. I mean I've never liked the Primarchs that much, even Angron, I much prefer Kharn. Kharn never cried that Angron never treated him like a father. The Primarchs to me have always been big babies. Look at how the Primarchs treated their own Astartes. What Lorgar did to the Gal Vorbak as he didn't have the courage to do it first. They Primarchs treated their soldiers as expendable assets so much of the time. Look at Istvaan.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
No they were people. That's obvious. The Emperor was the one who couldn't see things clearly which caused a whole bunch of problems.

I don't need to know what happens in the future to say causing someones entire family to die, making war their only motive and then planning to get rid of them later is a bad idea.

The Emperor did treat them like people and even sons, you pick a handful of moments when he was an donkey-cave and say 'look they are people, treat them as such' Only chaos said the Emperor would get rid of them.

And logic. He killed two of them off and how many Thunder Warriors stuck around? None because somebody killed them all off.

No, he pretended they were people to him and thought of them as tools. Hence the awful way they were treated causing issues. The Emperor is not a good person or leader or guide for humanity. Deal with it.

And another point in logic is that he was going to keep them around as statesmen and a kind of policing force. Yeah he did pretend, so what. The awful way he treated them, give me a break. boo hoo. The emperor chastised me and humiliated me I'm going to follow the chaos gods, I mean seriously, who thought Lorgar would be so ridiculously petty and thin skinned. Don't study sorcery. I mean are these that monumental it would lead supposedly enlightened beings to selling their souls. He saved my life and didn't allow me to die. I mean I've never liked the Primarchs that much, even Angron, I much prefer Kharn. The Primarchs to me have always been nig babies.

Wow. You're so into the Emperor you're rewriting things in your head aren't you?

If I walked up to you and said "every single person you've ever cared about has just been murdered. By me." you'd just be cool with that and move on?

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
No they were people. That's obvious. The Emperor was the one who couldn't see things clearly which caused a whole bunch of problems.

I don't need to know what happens in the future to say causing someones entire family to die, making war their only motive and then planning to get rid of them later is a bad idea.

The Emperor did treat them like people and even sons, you pick a handful of moments when he was an donkey-cave and say 'look they are people, treat them as such' Only chaos said the Emperor would get rid of them.

And logic. He killed two of them off and how many Thunder Warriors stuck around? None because somebody killed them all off.

No, he pretended they were people to him and thought of them as tools. Hence the awful way they were treated causing issues. The Emperor is not a good person or leader or guide for humanity. Deal with it.

And another point in logic is that he was going to keep them around as statesmen and a kind of policing force. Yeah he did pretend, so what. The awful way he treated them, give me a break. boo hoo. The emperor chastised me and humiliated me I'm going to follow the chaos gods, I mean seriously, who thought Lorgar would be so ridiculously petty and thin skinned. Don't study sorcery. I mean are these that monumental it would lead supposedly enlightened beings to selling their souls. He saved my life and didn't allow me to die. I mean I've never liked the Primarchs that much, even Angron, I much prefer Kharn. The Primarchs to me have always been nig babies.

Wow. You're so into the Emperor you're rewriting things in your head aren't you?

If I walked up to you and said "every single person you've ever cared about has just been murdered. By me." you'd just be cool with that and move on?

And If I sent the Gal Vorbak into the eye to be ass-raped by daemons because I was too cowardly to go in first. Yeah I'm more for the Emperor, he was cold and calculating, not a hypocritical cry baby.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
No they were people. That's obvious. The Emperor was the one who couldn't see things clearly which caused a whole bunch of problems.

I don't need to know what happens in the future to say causing someones entire family to die, making war their only motive and then planning to get rid of them later is a bad idea.

The Emperor did treat them like people and even sons, you pick a handful of moments when he was an donkey-cave and say 'look they are people, treat them as such' Only chaos said the Emperor would get rid of them.

And logic. He killed two of them off and how many Thunder Warriors stuck around? None because somebody killed them all off.

No, he pretended they were people to him and thought of them as tools. Hence the awful way they were treated causing issues. The Emperor is not a good person or leader or guide for humanity. Deal with it.

And another point in logic is that he was going to keep them around as statesmen and a kind of policing force. Yeah he did pretend, so what. The awful way he treated them, give me a break. boo hoo. The emperor chastised me and humiliated me I'm going to follow the chaos gods, I mean seriously, who thought Lorgar would be so ridiculously petty and thin skinned. Don't study sorcery. I mean are these that monumental it would lead supposedly enlightened beings to selling their souls. He saved my life and didn't allow me to die. I mean I've never liked the Primarchs that much, even Angron, I much prefer Kharn. The Primarchs to me have always been nig babies.

Wow. You're so into the Emperor you're rewriting things in your head aren't you?

If I walked up to you and said "every single person you've ever cared about has just been murdered. By me." you'd just be cool with that and move on?

And If I sent the Gal Vorbak into the eye to be ass-raped by daemons because I was too cowardly to go in first. Yeah I'm more for the Emperor, he was cold and calculating, not a hypocritical cry baby.

He completely was. I know that hurts your fanboy heart.

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
No they were people. That's obvious. The Emperor was the one who couldn't see things clearly which caused a whole bunch of problems.

I don't need to know what happens in the future to say causing someones entire family to die, making war their only motive and then planning to get rid of them later is a bad idea.

The Emperor did treat them like people and even sons, you pick a handful of moments when he was an donkey-cave and say 'look they are people, treat them as such' Only chaos said the Emperor would get rid of them.

And logic. He killed two of them off and how many Thunder Warriors stuck around? None because somebody killed them all off.

No, he pretended they were people to him and thought of them as tools. Hence the awful way they were treated causing issues. The Emperor is not a good person or leader or guide for humanity. Deal with it.

And another point in logic is that he was going to keep them around as statesmen and a kind of policing force. Yeah he did pretend, so what. The awful way he treated them, give me a break. boo hoo. The emperor chastised me and humiliated me I'm going to follow the chaos gods, I mean seriously, who thought Lorgar would be so ridiculously petty and thin skinned. Don't study sorcery. I mean are these that monumental it would lead supposedly enlightened beings to selling their souls. He saved my life and didn't allow me to die. I mean I've never liked the Primarchs that much, even Angron, I much prefer Kharn. The Primarchs to me have always been nig babies.

Wow. You're so into the Emperor you're rewriting things in your head aren't you?

If I walked up to you and said "every single person you've ever cared about has just been murdered. By me." you'd just be cool with that and move on?

And If I sent the Gal Vorbak into the eye to be ass-raped by daemons because I was too cowardly to go in first. Yeah I'm more for the Emperor, he was cold and calculating, not a hypocritical cry baby.

He completely was. I know that hurts your fanboy heart.

Why would Lorgar being hypocritical hurt my fanboy heart. You are so emotionally invested in fictional characters... I don't get hurt over fiction, you have shown that you do in this thread though, you take it personally for some reason and are the only one that is emotional. I even gak on Angron, it really doesn't change your life in any way. The only reason people hate on the Emperor is, Primarchs feelings were hurt, especially since its the only thing they cite to when saying the Emperor made mistakes etc. What legion do you collect, I bet its the thousand sons.

Because you're very touchy about 40k.

The whole point of a story is is you have an emotional investment in the characters that's good writing although honestly I'm not that bothered about Warhammer characters as there are better stories out there.

This idea will rock your world mate - People gak on the Emperor because.....he's an ass. If you bothered to read anything you'd know people cite more.

You're wrong, what do I win?

pm713 wrote:
Because you're very touchy about 40k.

The whole point of a story is is you have an emotional investment in the characters that's good writing although honestly I'm not that bothered about Warhammer characters as there are better stories out there.

This idea will rock your world mate - People gak on the Emperor because.....he's an ass. If you bothered to read anything you'd know people cite more.

You're wrong, what do I win?

I'm not touchy, you are, you are the only one being emotional here. I'm not touchy at all, I'm just a bit of an donkey-cave lol. Re-read what you have written here, you'll realise you are emotional and touchy when it comes to the Primarchs getting their feelings hurt. You are just projecting behaviour I said you are guilty of. <REMOVED> Yeah you have attachment to the characters but grown ups can divest themselves of that when talking objectively.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Because you're very touchy about 40k.

The whole point of a story is is you have an emotional investment in the characters that's good writing although honestly I'm not that bothered about Warhammer characters as there are better stories out there.

This idea will rock your world mate - People gak on the Emperor because.....he's an ass. If you bothered to read anything you'd know people cite more.

You're wrong, what do I win?

I'm not touchy, you are, you are the only one being emotional here. I'm not touchy at all, I'm just a bit of an donkey-cave lol. Re-read what you have written here, you'll realise you are emotional and touchy when it comes to the Primarchs getting their feelings hurt. You are just projecting behaviour I said you are guilty of. <REMOVED> Yeah you have attachment to the characters but grown ups can divest themselves of that when talking objectively.

Okay. I'm not the one who ignores everything they can't dispute then talks about flaming butts though...

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Because you're very touchy about 40k.

The whole point of a story is is you have an emotional investment in the characters that's good writing although honestly I'm not that bothered about Warhammer characters as there are better stories out there.

This idea will rock your world mate - People gak on the Emperor because.....he's an ass. If you bothered to read anything you'd know people cite more.

You're wrong, what do I win?

I'm not touchy, you are, you are the only one being emotional here. I'm not touchy at all, I'm just a bit of an donkey-cave lol. Re-read what you have written here, you'll realise you are emotional and touchy when it comes to the Primarchs getting their feelings hurt. You are just projecting behaviour I said you are guilty of. <REMOVED> Yeah you have attachment to the characters but grown ups can divest themselves of that when talking objectively.

Okay. I'm not the one who ignores everything they can't dispute then talks about flaming butts though...

<REMOVED>

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
He could have very easily done things differently in a lot of ways. Some of those ways would probably have been much better. He was wrong about a fair few things and he wouldn't be the first to be wrong about Chaos.

True. Mornarchia for instance was a cluster feth. I always wondered though did the Emperor use Lorgars religious views as a reason to destroy Mornarchia because he realised how much taint existed within the city.

Or to get lorgar angry. Can't get rebellion on if some aren't unhappy

pm713 wrote:
No they were people. That's obvious. The Emperor was the one who couldn't see things clearly which caused a whole bunch of problems.

I don't need to know what happens in the future to say causing someones entire family to die, making war their only motive and then planning to get rid of them later is a bad idea.

They were only people because of the scattering.