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Is it too early to ask what is good for Imperial Guard so I acquire the right boxes for models and units? Thanks.

Buy a Catachan HQ box. These guys never fail to deliver.

A command of some sort and scion box is the right start. Maybe an infantry box of 10.

I think the Hot Shot Volley Gun is actually very solid on a Heavy Weapon specialist. Plasma is obviously very good.

Plasma is good, flamers are better. And IG can take A LOT of those.

Small board, negative modifiers to hit (obscured targets, long range, flesh woulds, broken team), shooting after advancing, overwatch on single models, possibility to split hits between targets that are close. All these things make flamers so much better in Kill Team.

An IG Kill Team with less than 5 flamers is a waste of potential, imho.

Thanks!

Take a sniper rifle on your demolition specialist. You'll deal mortal wounds to opponents in cover on 5-6 to wound. With the demolition tactic it'll be 4-6 to deal a mortal wound. This is in addition to the regular damage. If you throw in a comms specialist to be his spotter and give him +1 to hit to counter the cover penalty you'll have a great sniper.

I hadn't thought of that. If you buff up a sniper that's really good.

It's hard for me to do that, though, when plasma is just so good and AP-3 is typically plenty.

Honestly with how cheap guardsmen are it’s not that difficult to do bring a fair number of special weapons, so I’d say just take both unless you have already have a build in mind.

Also we are a faction that can make good use of fire team experience gains because we can form them so easily and cheaply. Not a massive buff on a game by game basis, but I get the feeling it’ll come in handy during campaigns.

I did a full IG command roster to see how it would look. It's not optimized or anything, I just made rolls for the background and stuff and the team more or less made itself. Fluff-wise, it would actually be composed of three squads on a force recon mission:



...also, I made a regular trooper medic instead of a kasrkin because feth that gak

This is the guard list I'm considering;

Imperial Guard
Leader - Sergeant(5) w/Powersword(1):6
Heavy - Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Zealot - Tempestor(10) w/Powersword(1):11
Comms - Guardsman(5) w/Voxcaster(5):10
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13

 Hulksmash wrote:
This is the guard list I'm considering;

Imperial Guard
Leader - Sergeant(5) w/Powersword(1):6
Heavy - Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Zealot - Tempestor(10) w/Powersword(1):11
Comms - Guardsman(5) w/Voxcaster(5):10
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13

Thank you for still using Imperial Guard; I thought I was the only one..

Also why did they separate special weapon gunners?? both look the same as regular gunners.. couldn't they just be one or the other??

So here's a question - against T5 prevalent armies (i.e. Death Guard), what do I do, just spam Plasma on normal guys?
This question is spawned from my first game last night. I got curb stomped. Being our first game, we mis-played some rules that I think really hurt me and I'd also forgotten his guys were T5. So with that in mind, I went off thinking how I can counter his high toughness guys before they can shoot me, while also trying to avoid the pox walkers (in case you don't know, if a pox walker kills you in combat, for 1CP he can get another poxwalker on a 4+ - which he did a couple of times)

I feel like a lot of options are completely negated if you want reliability - here's my reasoning (and bare in mind this is purely against deathguard - against "normal" marines most of these arguments are invalid):

1) Single shot high strength weapons (melta and krak 'nade launcher) - as a 40k Guard player I'm wary of taking weapons with single shots due to the "average" BS and my typically abysmal rolling. I didn't take melta last night, but I did have a 'nade launcher, and true to form, when I did pick krak it missed.

2) Basic Stormtroopers are not worth the upgrade over their basic brothers - sure their hotshots are AP-2, but at S3 it feels like you're wasting the better BS with the sheer unlikeliness of wounding. Again, encountered this last night as when I did manage to hit, I rarely wounded. Additionally - given the no base save for poxwalkers, and the 5+ FNP, the AP is wasted there.

3) Hot Shot Volley Gun is a waste of points - the extra shots are nice, but being heavy, without spending more points/models to buff him, he cannot move without taking a BS penalty. Additionally, at S4, any shots that DO land are then unlikely to actually hurt the marines. I did have one last night, and I did make him a heavy and used the stratagem to give him 5 shots, but he didn't do a whole lot and then died to a marine in combat.

4) Sniper is ok, but you need more than one to guarantee doing anything (since lets face it, you're really looking for that 6 to wound for the mortal wound), and then you're hurt by the curse of the heavy penalty again, and the fact cover is so easy to get so realistically, you're hitting on 5's most of the time.

So, to sum up, I feel like the next game I play against him I'm just going to bring as many plasma toting basic guardsman as I can (which I believe is 5 -> 3 special weapons guys, sarge and 1 guardsman - this ignores scions for now) and then just spam as many other guardsmen as I can (quick tot up shows me 4 plasma gunners, a sarge with a plasma pistol and then 12 other guardsmen for a total of 17 bodies). The added bonus of having so many guardsmen is it takes a LOT more casualties before you have to test for team broken - which is what caused me to lose in the end. I had lost 7 of my guys, failed the break test and then the rest of my guys all auto failed the nerve test (I know about the auto pass 1 - I don't roll 1's unless I'm overcharging plasma) - at which point I ceded as it was late and I didn't fancy sitting back and watching him finish off the other 4.
However, I don't like the way this looks as a "kill team" - it just seems like a mass of bodies and doesn't seem like it's playing in the "spirit" of the whole narrative idea of an elite kill team. It also doesn't leave room for anything else (i.e. flamers which are pretty good at countering charges and poxwalkers)

I get that guard are never going to go 1 on 1 vs a marine type and come out on top, but it just seems like with our limited weapon options, anything with access to T5 models is going to be difficult to deal with. Possibly the issue is exacerbated by the fact he had a ton of poxwalkers on top meaning I didn't have the numbers advantage either.

Here's the lists in case you are interested:

Guard
11 models total

Leader:
Tempestor
Plasma Pistol
Power Sword

Heavy Specialist:
Scion Gunner
Hot Shot Volley Gun

Marksman Specialist:
Scion Gunner
Plasma Gun

Demolitions Specialist:
Special Weapons Gunner
Flamer

Non Specialists:
2 x Basic Scions
2 x Basic Guardsman (1 with vox)
Guardsman Gunner w/ Grenade Launcher
Special Weapons Gunner w/ Sniper Rifle
Special Weapons Gunner w/ Flamer


Deathguard
10 models total

Leader:
Plague Champion
Powerfist
Bolter
Plague Knife

Zealot Specialist:
Plague Marine Figher
Bolter
Plague Knife

Combat Specialist:
Plague Marine
Bolter
Plague Knife
Icon of Despair

Demolitions Specialist:
Plague Marine
Bolter
Plague Knife

Non Specialists
Plague Marine w/ Plasma Gun
5 x Poxwalkers

 Genoside07 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
This is the guard list I'm considering;

Imperial Guard
Leader - Sergeant(5) w/Powersword(1):6
Heavy - Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Zealot - Tempestor(10) w/Powersword(1):11
Comms - Guardsman(5) w/Voxcaster(5):10
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13

Thank you for still using Imperial Guard; I thought I was the only one..

Also why did they separate special weapon gunners?? both look the same as regular gunners.. couldn't they just be one or the other??

The same reason there is a ”special weapons guardsman” that is exactly the same as a regular guardsman, they simply didnt bother to remake the unit lists for better use with KT.

They should simply have listed everything as:

LEADER (1)
Sergeant
Tempestor

GUNNER (4)
Guardsman
Scion

TROOPER (-)
Guardsman
Scion

But instead they copied the lists from 8th and made minimal changes, resulting in this confusing mess.

A potential reason for seperate datasheets is to allow for multiple Fireteams.

Thanks!

 Hulksmash wrote:
This is the guard list I'm considering;

Imperial Guard
Leader - Sergeant(5) w/Powersword(1):6
Heavy - Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Zealot - Tempestor(10) w/Powersword(1):11
Comms - Guardsman(5) w/Voxcaster(5):10
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13

AM don't have access to Zealot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thinking about running this list in a campaign.

Leader
-Tempestor
-Plasma Pistol
-Power Sword
=12

Heavy
-Gunner
-Hot Shot Volley
= 13

Veteran
-Gunner
-Vox
-Plasma
= 18

Comms
HSL
=9

Scion
-Gunner
-Plasma
=13

Scion
-Gunner
-Plasma
=13

Scion
HSL
=9

Scion
HSL
=9

Total - 96pts

I assume a Scion Gunner counts as a Scion in terms of being able to take a Vox Caster as the Veteran seems like the ideal person to carry it if the Tempestor can't. If not I'll just need to do some rejigging and take the plasma off the Veteran.

 Gael Knight wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
This is the guard list I'm considering;

Imperial Guard
Leader - Sergeant(5) w/Powersword(1):6
Heavy - Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Zealot - Tempestor(10) w/Powersword(1):11
Comms - Guardsman(5) w/Voxcaster(5):10
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13

AM don't have access to Zealot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thinking about running this list in a campaign.

Leader
-Tempestor
-Plasma Pistol
-Power Sword
=12

Heavy
-Gunner
-Hot Shot Volley
= 13

Veteran
-Gunner
-Vox
-Plasma
= 18

Comms
HSL
=9

Scion
-Gunner
-Plasma
=13

Scion
-Gunner
-Plasma
=13

Scion
HSL
=9

Scion
HSL
=9

Total - 96pts

I assume a Scion Gunner counts as a Scion in terms of being able to take a Vox Caster as the Veteran seems like the ideal person to carry it if the Tempestor can't. If not I'll just need to do some rejigging and take the plasma off the Veteran.

I think only regular Scions can take the vox.

Drat. That's a pity. Will have to rethink this.

The issue I have with vox is you don't really want him in harms way, but then we're on such a small scale, hiding him away is a massive waste even if he does just have a regulation issue flashlight.

I've now played two games, both with a vox caster, and I'm still on the fence as to whether the points are worth it or you should just bring another guy.
First game I got stomped so hard it didn't matter, and second game my guys were clustered close enough that any penalties were mostly negated by friendlies around the guys taking tests so I never had need of the re-roll (although he'd poked his head out and got a plasma bolt to the face round 1 anyway).

This of course assumes you're not going for a full Scion list


*EDIT*
Should add - the second game I played I did pretty much max out on Plasma, and despite some really poor rolling pulled out a convincing win. Main differences were obviously the plasma, one more body, we played the injury/nerve tests properly and we played the board long ways. The mission we're playing didn't seem to specify, and unless I missed it I couldn't see a generic layout anywhere?
I dislike this like personally from a spam viewpoint - all that plasma is a bit cheesy, but even then, I managed two rounds where all the plasma guns shot at a single marine and did no wounds, either because I failed to get any wounds through, or he rolled a copious number of 6s for his saves and disgustingly resilient.

Guard
12 models total

Leader:
Tempestor
Plasma Pistol
Power Sword

Comms Specialist:
Scion Gunner
Plasma Gun

Marksman Specialist:
Scion Gunner
Plasma Gun

Demolitions Specialist:
Guardsman Weapons Gunner
Flamer

Non Specialists:
5 x Basic Guardsman (1 with vox)
3 x Special Weapons Gunner w/ Plasma

Soulless wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
This is the guard list I'm considering;

Imperial Guard
Leader - Sergeant(5) w/Powersword(1):6
Heavy - Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Zealot - Tempestor(10) w/Powersword(1):11
Comms - Guardsman(5) w/Voxcaster(5):10
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman(5):5
Guardsman Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Special Weapons Gunner(5) w/Sniper Rifle(1):6
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13
Scion Gunner(10) w/Hotshot Volley Gun(3):13

Thank you for still using Imperial Guard; I thought I was the only one..

Also why did they separate special weapon gunners?? both look the same as regular gunners.. couldn't they just be one or the other??

The same reason there is a ”special weapons guardsman” that is exactly the same as a regular guardsman, they simply didnt bother to remake the unit lists for better use with KT.

They should simply have listed everything as:

LEADER (1)
Sergeant
Tempestor

GUNNER (4)
Guardsman
Scion

TROOPER (-)
Guardsman
Scion

But instead they copied the lists from 8th and made minimal changes, resulting in this confusing mess.

Can't you also take a leader from the Special Weapons Squad?

Nope - the only leaders we have access to are the guardsman sergeant and the scion sergeant.
In "full" 40k the special weapon squad is a squad of 3 special weapons guys and 3 guardsmen with no sergeant option as well so not surprising given how the options seem to have been worked out (i.e. based off what you can have in "full" 40k)

Well, I was looking for a place to post my list so...might as well do it here and add to the fun. I'm just thinking up a list right now, my custom bits are in the mail.

Unit total: 15

Leader
-Sergeant: Plasma Pistol

Comms
-Vox

Demo
-Guard Gunner: Grenade Launcher

Heavy
-Scion Gunner: Hotshot Volly-gun

2x Special Weapon Gunners: Plasma guns

Special Weapon Gunner: Flamer

8x Guardsmen

Originally I was confused as to whether I had to create a squad from one of the three units.

j33v3s wrote:
Nope - the only leaders we have access to are the guardsman sergeant and the scion sergeant.
In "full" 40k the special weapon squad is a squad of 3 special weapons guys and 3 guardsmen with no sergeant option as well so not surprising given how the options seem to have been worked out (i.e. based off what you can have in "full" 40k)

Not so, the Leader specialism is available to the Special Weapon Squad Guardsmen datasheet (without further restrictions), meaning that you can make either a guardsman or a Guardsman gunner your Leader. So you don’t need to take a Sergeant/Tempestor if you don’t want to, or you can kit the out for combat and leave your Leader safely at the back. Not very fluffy, but possibly an inteesting option for some.

Also, the Special Weapons Squad also has access to Comms, which for the Regular Guardsmen Squad is limited to a Guardsman with Vox. So you could for example give Comms to a Gunner with Plasma, if you want.

To be honest, I’m expecting Astra Militarum to receive quite a bit of attention in any upcoming FAQ/errata. There’s many oddities with the Regular Guardsman/Special Weapons Guardsman as separate datasheets.

Oh yes, my bad - I mis-read and thought he was talking about actual sergeants.

I'm also really hoping they give us back heavy weapon teams with heavy bolters at least - we really need something that can compete with T5 that isn't single shot only or plasma.

@GuardsmanBob
I'd be tempted to suggest your demo specialist should have the flamer - adding one to wound onto an already S4 auto-hitting weapon has worked well for me (mine killed a plague marine one turn and then ate a poxwalker in overwatch one game, and put wounds on two plague marines and killed a poxwalker in the other - so fairly consistent - although worth noting, both times it was fairly suicidal, he was up front, and after doing the damage he did my opponent did not want him on the board) whereas adding one to wound for a S3 weapon is not as universally helpful.
You can then always use the Krak option on the 'nade launcher, buffing him with your comms guy.
I guess it does depend on who you're facing, but T4 and up it's pretty beastly and doesn't care that your guy has poor accuracy.

j33v3s wrote:


@GuardsmanBob
I'd be tempted to suggest your demo specialist should have the flamer - adding one to wound onto an already S4 auto-hitting weapon has worked well for me (mine killed a plague marine one turn and then ate a poxwalker in overwatch one game, and put wounds on two plague marines and killed a poxwalker in the other - so fairly consistent - although worth noting, both times it was fairly suicidal, he was up front, and after doing the damage he did my opponent did not want him on the board) whereas adding one to wound for a S3 weapon is not as universally helpful.
You can then always use the Krak option on the 'nade launcher, buffing him with your comms guy.
I guess it does depend on who you're facing, but T4 and up it's pretty beastly and doesn't care that your guy has poor accuracy.

Cool sounds like a great idea!

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
Take a sniper rifle on your demolition specialist. You'll deal mortal wounds to opponents in cover on 5-6 to wound. With the demolition tactic it'll be 4-6 to deal a mortal wound. This is in addition to the regular damage. If you throw in a comms specialist to be his spotter and give him +1 to hit to counter the cover penalty you'll have a great sniper.

a 25 percent change to cause a mortal wound is uninspiring.

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
Take a sniper rifle on your demolition specialist. You'll deal mortal wounds to opponents in cover on 5-6 to wound. With the demolition tactic it'll be 4-6 to deal a mortal wound. This is in addition to the regular damage. If you throw in a comms specialist to be his spotter and give him +1 to hit to counter the cover penalty you'll have a great sniper.

In a game where you have few "resources" (be that bodies, points etc) anyway, this does seem like a lot of investment for one guy. Especially when the mortal wound may not even be needed.
YMMV but it's certainly not worth it for me, as my primary opponent mainly plays death guard, and their disgustingly resilient adds the possiblity of negating mortal wounds. Personally I've found it better to use the demolitions on a flamer, that doesn't need the to-hit buff, the comms on a plasma scion for base 2's to hit., and save the command point for other stuff (like making my single order effect all the plasma guys)