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So my wife and I haven't really played 40K since we got the 3rd edition stater back in 2001 or so. Bought the editions as they came out and kinda sorta kept up, but mostly just liked the minis for the lore and detail. Then the Kirby effect hit and it was real easy to ignore the game and we sold off pretty much everything we had.

Well, we got the First Strike starter set and figured what the hell, lets give this a shot.

WE LOVED IT.

Still have to figure out lots of the rules, but I have to say GW knocked it out of the park with this little set. Built the minis before dinner, played through the missions afterwards. Need to paint them still, but by having them dyed colors it was easy to play and got us playing today instead of trying to paint them and getting distracted and never actually getting around to playing. Very much liked how the rules were slowly introduced in steps, and that they didn't dumb them down for the starter, even though it presented some obviously odd situations (like the space marines being able to shoot clear across the play-mat).

So where do we go from here? I see that there is the Know No Fear set. Does that expand upon the rules? If I got it, and then got Dark Imperium, would there be a use for the duplicate models? I like the graduated learning method, we are teaching ourselves so it really helps.

Thanks!

Glad to hear it was a hit for you guys.

The rules don't get expanded as much as your model selection. And duplicate models can form extra units.

It's only really the psychic phase and moral phase that the First Strike missions don't cover. Get yourself a couple of codexes and getting started boxes and start playing bigger battles. The Core Rules book you get in First Strike is the same as the Battle Primer so you already have that

The First Strike miniatures also look good painted so that's another side of the hobby you can get back into...

 Phobos wrote:
So where do we go from here? I see that there is the Know No Fear set. Does that expand upon the rules? If I got it, and then got Dark Imperium, would there be a use for the duplicate models? I like the graduated learning method, we are teaching ourselves so it really helps.

Know No Fear is basically discount Dark Imperium with 2/3 of the models and no big rulebook. If I were you, I'd pick up Dark Imperium and perhaps a second First Strike instead of Know No Fear (because it's pretty redundant with Dark Imperium so it's pointless to buy both). Why second First Strike? Because in regular game Primaris marines come in squads of 5 so you'd have a legal sized unit (just mix duplicate marines into different squads to not have them stand out), and on the DG side, DG can always use more zombies and plague marines.

As for duplicate minis, of course you'd have use for them - good starter army is made from 2 HQ models (which are in DI, captain and lieutenant - it's why I didn't recommend Know No Fear, as it has no lieutenants), and 3 troop squads. Coincidentally, with Dark Imperium and First Strike you can field 15 primaris SM in 3 units of 5 to make it a battle-forged army. Same goes for DG side.

As for where to go from there - both primaris and DG have cheap, 'easy to build' vehicles (Primaris Redemptor and DG Blight-hauler) to add bigger models on the table, and perhaps the Lord Felthius set for DG player to even the armies out a bit. That would be cheapest, fastest and easiest way to have a pretty good starter army, then from there go for models you like.

 Irbis wrote:


Know No Fear is basically discount Dark Imperium with 2/3 of the models and no big rulebook. If I were you, I'd pick up Dark Imperium and perhaps a second First Strike instead of Know No Fear (because it's pretty redundant with Dark Imperium so it's pointless to buy both). Why second First Strike? Because in regular game Primaris marines come in squads of 5 so you'd have a legal sized unit (just mix duplicate marines into different squads to not have them stand out), and on the DG side, DG can always use more zombies and plague marines.

Yep, this is good advice. Definitely get Dark Imperium, it is a great box and you eventually need the big rulebook anyway.

 Irbis wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
So where do we go from here? I see that there is the Know No Fear set. Does that expand upon the rules? If I got it, and then got Dark Imperium, would there be a use for the duplicate models? I like the graduated learning method, we are teaching ourselves so it really helps.

Know No Fear is basically discount Dark Imperium with 2/3 of the models and no big rulebook. If I were you, I'd pick up Dark Imperium and perhaps a second First Strike instead of Know No Fear (because it's pretty redundant with Dark Imperium so it's pointless to buy both). Why second First Strike? Because in regular game Primaris marines come in squads of 5 so you'd have a legal sized unit (just mix duplicate marines into different squads to not have them stand out), and on the DG side, DG can always use more zombies and plague marines.

As for duplicate minis, of course you'd have use for them - good starter army is made from 2 HQ models (which are in DI, captain and lieutenant - it's why I didn't recommend Know No Fear, as it has no lieutenants), and 3 troop squads. Coincidentally, with Dark Imperium and First Strike you can field 15 primaris SM in 3 units of 5 to make it a battle-forged army. Same goes for DG side.

As for where to go from there - both primaris and DG have cheap, 'easy to build' vehicles (Primaris Redemptor and DG Blight-hauler) to add bigger models on the table, and perhaps the Lord Felthius set for DG player to even the armies out a bit. That would be cheapest, fastest and easiest way to have a pretty good starter army, then from there go for models you like.

They're better off getting 2 copies of know no fear than getting 1 of dark imperium. It's trading off 2 plague marines, the 2 other death guard characters, 2 lieutenants and an ancient for an extra squad of plague marines with a plasma, an extra bloat drone, an extra lord of contagion, an extra squad of hellblasters and an extra squad of inceptors. The second lord of contagion and the inceptors are kind of useless but you get much stronger cores for you army essentially at the cost of waiting to get the full rulebook which is far from essential, especially when just starting out. They can then just get the characters missing from know no fear on ebay for a couple dollars each.

IronBrand wrote:
They're better off getting 2 copies of know no fear than getting 1 of dark imperium. It's trading off 2 plague marines, the 2 other death guard characters, 2 lieutenants and an ancient for an extra squad of plague marines with a plasma, an extra bloat drone, an extra lord of contagion, an extra squad of hellblasters and an extra squad of inceptors. The second lord of contagion and the inceptors are kind of useless but you get much stronger cores for you army essentially at the cost of waiting to get the full rulebook which is far from essential, especially when just starting out. They can then just get the characters missing from know no fear on ebay for a couple dollars each.

A) rulebook is amazing, especially for new players, and it's essentially free in DI while adding a lot of extra cost in your variant, B) as you noted, you will end up with a lot of extra useless models, while missing on some really important ones that are available only in DI. Primaris ancient (and DG equivalent) is found only in DI, plus they would need to spend a lot of money on overpriced primaris characters to replace free DI ones to get extra HQs. It's IMO way cheaper to just get extra plasma gun bit from somewhere if you want it that much, then spend saved money on box of hellblasters or inceptors (especially seeing they come with actual options and aren't clones) plus bloat drone, instead of wasting it on two not really good deal boxes...

Dark Imperium is a great add on or just plain starter.

buy primaris librarian

 Irbis wrote:

IronBrand wrote:
They're better off getting 2 copies of know no fear than getting 1 of dark imperium. It's trading off 2 plague marines, the 2 other death guard characters, 2 lieutenants and an ancient for an extra squad of plague marines with a plasma, an extra bloat drone, an extra lord of contagion, an extra squad of hellblasters and an extra squad of inceptors. The second lord of contagion and the inceptors are kind of useless but you get much stronger cores for you army essentially at the cost of waiting to get the full rulebook which is far from essential, especially when just starting out. They can then just get the characters missing from know no fear on ebay for a couple dollars each.

A) rulebook is amazing, especially for new players, and it's essentially free in DI while adding a lot of extra cost in your variant, B) as you noted, you will end up with a lot of extra useless models, while missing on some really important ones that are available only in DI. Primaris ancient (and DG equivalent) is found only in DI, plus they would need to spend a lot of money on overpriced primaris characters to replace free DI ones to get extra HQs. It's IMO way cheaper to just get extra plasma gun bit from somewhere if you want it that much, then spend saved money on box of hellblasters or inceptors (especially seeing they come with actual options and aren't clones) plus bloat drone, instead of wasting it on two not really good deal boxes...

The charaters from dark imperium are cheap as chips on ebay. You only get 4 models that are useless buying two know no fear instead of dark imperium. Also suggesting buying a box of hellblasters and a bloat drone is kind of insane in comparison to know no fear as the full kits cost almost as much as know no fear each and the vast majority of the time you'll be using the gear they come with in know no fear. Know no fear also has the advantage of being two boxes so they can just buy one then get a second later so they're not outlaying all the money in one go or getting overwhelmed by ramping things up too fast. Dark imperium isn't bad but the thought of getting it barely crossed my mind when I was getting back in because having a solid core for an army is much more important than a rule book and the characters only cost me like $10 on ebay.

Another vote for Dark Imperium. Great, great set!

Turns out my wife went and bought a copy of Dark Imperium today. So guess that problem is solved lol.

I am glad I have the rulebook. It has already made things much clearer than before so I can definitively say it is worth it. That being said, I would not mind getting know no fear as well if the value is there unless there is a better way to go. I like the idea of getting another First Strike and beefing up the units, especially since there are no Reviers in the DI set.

Some beginner questions in no particular order:

At what point do I need the codex?

Can the primaris marines be played with normal marines?

My wife kind of likes space wolves and is thinking about going that way. So what happens if she paints them wolf colors then buys a box of 'official' space wolves?

I've read the primaris ones have better stats. So why bother with regular marines then?

 Phobos wrote:
At what point do I need the codex?

Even if you want to use the factions from the starter sets, you're still missing rules for other units that GW sell and battle-forged armies. Using the SM codex as an example: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Space-Marines-hb-2017-ENG

"Rules

85 datasheets covering the entire Space Marines range – including the Primaris Space Marines;

Points values for all miniatures, weapons and wargear for use in Matched Play games;

Army abilities and wargear lists, alongside a brief explanation of their use and the use of keywords;

Rules profiles for every piece of wargear and every weapon in the Space Marines’ arsenal;

Rules for Battle-forged armies, including abilities for Space Marines armies and specific Chapter Tactics for Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Salamanders, Raven Guard and Iron Hands Chapters, reflecting their unique fighting styles;

26 Stratagems for Battle-forged armies, reflecting the varied tactics used by Space Marines commanders on the battlefield;

6 Warlord Traits, for use with any Space Marine Warlord, with Chapter-specific Warlord traits for Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Black Templars, Salamanders, Raven Guard and Iron Hands;

Chapter Relics: special weapons and wargear wielded in battle by Space Marines characters;

The Librarius psychic discipline: 6 psychic abilities for use by Space Marines Librarians;

6 Tactical Objectives for use by Space Marines armies."

 Phobos wrote:
Can the primaris marines be played with normal marines?

I've read the primaris ones have better stats. So why bother with regular marines then?

So yes, you can include units of both types of marines, but Primaris units have different points costs and limited wargear/transport options.

 Phobos wrote:

At what point do I need the codex?

As soon as possible really. It gives you bunch of extra rules. Though Space Wolves do not have a codex yet, they will be getting one really soon though.

Can the primaris marines be played with normal marines?

Yes.

My wife kind of likes space wolves and is thinking about going that way. So what happens if she paints them wolf colors then buys a box of 'official' space wolves?

Nothing happens, except she will have some extra wold bits to add to the Primaris marines. Space Wolves can use all the Primaris units from the sets you have. Dark Angels and Blood Angels got a primaris upgrade sprue when their codices were released, and I expect SW to get one with their codex.

I've read the primaris ones have better stats. So why bother with regular marines then?

Regular marines cost fewer points and have differnt weapon and transport options. However, unless you really really like how the non-primaris marines look, at this point I'd recommend new players against getting them. The Primaris marines are the future of marines, non-primaris marines are basically legacy models at this point. And they look weird together.

OK got it.

I guess I got confused because AoS changed how it worked with regards to datasheets and and points being available on the website. So I was kind of expecting the same here. But none of that applies to 40K, data and points are in the codex updated by errata and faq as needed. (right?)

 Phobos wrote:
OK got it.

I guess I got confused because AoS changed how it worked with regards to datasheets and and points being available on the website. So I was kind of expecting the same here. But none of that applies to 40K, data and points are in the codex updated by errata and faq as needed. (right?)

Annoyingly the points are updated in yearly Chapter Approved book...

 Crimson wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
OK got it.

I guess I got confused because AoS changed how it worked with regards to datasheets and and points being available on the website. So I was kind of expecting the same here. But none of that applies to 40K, data and points are in the codex updated by errata and faq as needed. (right?)

Annoyingly the points are updated in yearly Chapter Approved book...

OK, so lemme make sure I got this right.

If I wanted to play somewhere other than my kitchen table, I need

1. rule book
2.. codex for each army
3. faq / errata for both
4. chapter approved

yes?

 Phobos wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
OK got it.

I guess I got confused because AoS changed how it worked with regards to datasheets and and points being available on the website. So I was kind of expecting the same here. But none of that applies to 40K, data and points are in the codex updated by errata and faq as needed. (right?)

Annoyingly the points are updated in yearly Chapter Approved book...

OK, so lemme make sure I got this right.

If I wanted to play somewhere other than my kitchen table, I need

1. rule book
2.. codex for each army
3. faq / errata for both
4. chapter approved

yes?

You can use battlescribe to make you lists and not need chapter approved. It's a program that gets updated to have the most recent point costs and the vast majority of people will be fine with you using that. In a tournament you'll need all relevant books though.

 Phobos wrote:

If I wanted to play somewhere other than my kitchen table, I need

1. rule book
2.. codex for each army
3. faq / errata for both
4. chapter approved

yes?

Yes.

 Crimson wrote:

unless you really really like how the non-primaris marines look, at this point I'd recommend new players against getting them. The Primaris marines are the future of marines, non-primaris marines are basically legacy models at this point.

Actually at this point only 14 out of 85 datasheets in the SM codex are Primaris units (including the Redemptor Dreadnought and Repulsor which don't use the PRIMARIS keyword), and GW have said that they don't replace regular SM. Of course what happens in the future is anyone's guess, but that's the current situation.

 Phobos wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
OK got it.

I guess I got confused because AoS changed how it worked with regards to datasheets and and points being available on the website. So I was kind of expecting the same here. But none of that applies to 40K, data and points are in the codex updated by errata and faq as needed. (right?)

Annoyingly the points are updated in yearly Chapter Approved book...

OK, so lemme make sure I got this right.

If I wanted to play somewhere other than my kitchen table, I need

1. rule book
2.. codex for each army
3. faq / errata for both
4. chapter approved

yes?

Yes, but thanks to Dark Imperium, you have the rulebook already. You can buy the big book, but you won’t gain any rules with it.

The codices are unavoidable unfortunately, you’re gonna need to drop the cash for those.

The FAQ and errata are available for free on the website, and you should be able to get away with the BattleScribe app for Chapter Approved.

Chapter Approved does have additional missions and modeling tips, but I’d hold off and just buy the new one at the end of the year, unless you really want the extra missions, but the base missions are usually enough. Most of the time i break out the CA missions just to mix things up.

There are also datacards for each faction that you can buy for 15 bucks as well as the Open War mission deck for 15 bucks. I like having them because it’s quick reference for Stratagems, psychic powers, and maelstrom mission objectives, and the open war cards are just fun, but those are optional

you can proably if you're good with google avoid getting CA too, those points are out online I've no doubt. Battlescribe for example seems to have them.

Your wife wants to go Space Wolves? That's great news, as they're about to have their codex published. Because it's 'late' in the cycle (one of the last to drop) it will be a really good one - the writers have become more confident in designing power levels, and giving cool rules that suit the faction. I would strongly recommend not buying the Space Marine Codex, and waiting a few weeks, then buying your codex and hers together. They improve an army a lot, so you don't want to make it assymetrical by getting the DG one first...

In terms of mixing and matching SMs and Primaris, you can do it, but be aware there's a scale difference. I'd stick to the wolf kits, dreadnoughts, flyer, when buying any other Space Wolf stuff for now, in case the scale difference gets on your nerves (it did me). Have a great time of it!