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 aracersss wrote:
new video from bob
...

Potato cameras in 2018....smh.

Still, nice to see size comparisons for all the models together.

~iPaint

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

You really need to decide whether uncertain rules are valid arguments or not.

As of now, you allow yourself to assume things while attacking other people for doing the same.

The thread is for discussing rumours. These rules are all uncertain until GW decides to publish the codex. I thought we were to make sensible assumptions based off the rumours rather than just making up our own ideas and adding them to the mix?

The rumours are that Boys are going to 32s and they are 7ppm. If we discount the 32 base because there's no official rule telling us to rebase, surely you admit an increase from 6-7 ppm without any other changes is a nerf? Do you reckon DDD is worth the extra point? Or that and clan tactics?

I'm not seeing it.

Your counter, of course is the rumoured fight again stratagem that Boys can employ. But we pay for stratagems with CP right?

You argument is based on the assumption that you have to rebase boyz.
At the same time you tell me I'm not allowed to make assumption based on rumors we actually have.

So, maybe go read my previous post instead and respond to its arguments of hand-waving it if you are interested in an honest discussion.

 Jidmah wrote:

You argument is based on the assumption that you have to rebase boyz.

If boyz are still competetive in the new codex i suspect that a rebasing will be enforced by tournaments and casuals alike.
The KFF for example is 50% better (if my math is correct) with 25mm bases not to mention CC.

Ashkayel wrote:

 greggles wrote:
Tested some of the traits today.

Bad moonz + dakkadakkadakka is really annoying. It really slows down the rolls.

We were trying to figure out the order of operations.

Roll some twin big shootas.

Bunch of 1's, bunch of 6's.

Re-roll the 1's, get some 6's, does dakka dakka activate?

Get a dakka dakka dakka 6, then roll a 1, that is a "seperate" to hit roll, so would you then get a reroll from that for the bad moonz trait?

So it was possible to roll a 1, then roll a 6, which generates another shot, which you roll a 1 from, which you then reroll. (because it is a separate to hit roll).

Deathskullz was my favorite so far. 6++ was fantastic. Really helped save cp by having the free 1 reroll to hit or damage (saved all for damage rolls).

(Of course this is all not fully confirmed, just reporting to change up some of the chattin and get some feedback).

Yeah, roll to hit, reroll those 1s, then roll additional dice for your 6s, then reroll the new 1s. Pretty long. I've started using Assault Dice app for this, I'm getting the hang of it.

The sad thing about this whole thing? Even with the trait and DDD, it STILL isn't as good as BS 4+ ...

BS5+DDD+RR1's vs BS4+RR1's, plus -1 to hit modifiers


Yeah, BS4+ is straight better across the board. DDD plus RRall (Tankbusta's), or DDD plus BS4+ may close the distance in certain situations; but...

That said, I checked out Assault Dice - it seems to simplify this process, a LOT.

Add all your dice, roll initial results - pick up 1's and RR (other dice will shift space, but not change facing) - select everything that missed and move them to the cup; the total remaining at the bottom is the number of hits (or just add the top together) - move all hits except 6's to the cup - RR all 6's, RR1's, then add final total hits to previous number.

Typing it out it may seem a bit much; but in the app, it's Roll-Reroll-Cup-Count-Cup-Roll6's again-RR1's-add it all together. 8 steps, and much quicker then actually rolling the dice on the table, and hand sorting (at least in the case of Shoota Boyz 60 shots). That said, rolling buckets of dice is the reason you play Orks... but then again, re-rolling all the 1's, then 6's, then 1's again and counting it all up - it's a lot of work for a minor gain.

But I guess I shouldn't be complaining about any increase to our hits/final damages; Ork shooting needs it.

 jhnbrg wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

You argument is based on the assumption that you have to rebase boyz.

If boyz are still competetive in the new codex i suspect that a rebasing will be enforced by tournaments and casuals alike.
The KFF for example is 50% better (if my math is correct) with 25mm bases not to mention CC.

Did anybody have that problem ever? With all the other armies that already had base swaps? My plague marines stand on their 25mm bases just fine and I saw 2nd ed armies on dakka with terminators on 25mm bases as well. And if I recall correctly GW still says "build the models on the bases they are provided with".

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

You argument is based on the assumption that you have to rebase boyz.

If boyz are still competetive in the new codex i suspect that a rebasing will be enforced by tournaments and casuals alike.
The KFF for example is 50% better (if my math is correct) with 25mm bases not to mention CC.

Did anybody have that problem ever? With all the other armies that already had base swaps? My plague marines stand on their 25mm bases just fine and I saw 2nd ed armies on dakka with terminators on 25mm bases as well. And if I recall correctly GW still says "build the models on the bases they are provided with".

The problem with orks is that there are so many of them and that the footprint really is important. 30 boyz on 32mm bases take up a lot of more space compared to 25mm.
If a KFF has stats and a points value based on 32mm bases using 25mm bases can be argued to be cheating or building to advantage.

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

You really need to decide whether uncertain rules are valid arguments or not.

As of now, you allow yourself to assume things while attacking other people for doing the same.

The thread is for discussing rumours. These rules are all uncertain until GW decides to publish the codex. I thought we were to make sensible assumptions based off the rumours rather than just making up our own ideas and adding them to the mix?

The rumours are that Boys are going to 32s and they are 7ppm. If we discount the 32 base because there's no official rule telling us to rebase, surely you admit an increase from 6-7 ppm without any other changes is a nerf? Do you reckon DDD is worth the extra point? Or that and clan tactics?

I'm not seeing it.

Your counter, of course is the rumoured fight again stratagem that Boys can employ. But we pay for stratagems with CP right?

You argument is based on the assumption that you have to rebase boyz.
At the same time you tell me I'm not allowed to make assumption based on rumors we actually have.

So, maybe go read my previous post instead and respond to its arguments of hand-waving it if you are interested in an honest discussion.

What?

Previous rebasings have nit been for horde armies.

I guarantee you that GW is not going to say you "have" to rebase. What non GW events do is up to them. The whole ethos of GW now is about the hobby being easier..... no one in their right mind can claim rebasing scores of Orks is going to be easy.....

We 'should' get a Warhammer community coming soon article today if Orks are happening before end of the month. Interestingly at the Forge World store yesterday the existing Ork kits had been put on seperate display in the "say goodbye area" .... all ones based around the existing vehicle chassis.

 jhnbrg wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

You argument is based on the assumption that you have to rebase boyz.

If boyz are still competetive in the new codex i suspect that a rebasing will be enforced by tournaments and casuals alike.
The KFF for example is 50% better (if my math is correct) with 25mm bases not to mention CC.

Did anybody have that problem ever? With all the other armies that already had base swaps? My plague marines stand on their 25mm bases just fine and I saw 2nd ed armies on dakka with terminators on 25mm bases as well. And if I recall correctly GW still says "build the models on the bases they are provided with".

The problem with orks is that there are so many of them and that the footprint really is important. 30 boyz on 32mm bases take up a lot of more space compared to 25mm.
If a KFF has stats and a points value based on 32mm bases using 25mm bases can be argued to be cheating or building to advantage.

That’s probably the best point that’s been made about 32mm; KFF is based on 25mm and ENTIRELY WITHIN.

Big difference when switching to 32mm, especially when trying to cover multiple squads.

 jhnbrg wrote:

If a KFF has stats and a points value based on 32mm bases...

It's extremely unlikely that the base size was considered at all when establishing the points cost for the KFF.

The hypothetical 'You fit this many more 25mm bases in range' only applies if you're packing boys in base contact over the entire surrounding area.

I'll admit I'm slightly out of touch with the current game, but I've never seen that happen on the table.

 insaniak wrote:
The hypothetical 'You fit this many more 25mm bases in range' only applies if you're packing boys in base contact over the entire surrounding area.

I'll admit I'm slightly out of touch with the current game, but I've never seen that happen on the table.

It happens all the time dude. I squeeze as many models (not just Boys) in the area around a KFF Mek as possible. I'd assume every player takes casualties from the models outside of KFF range too if there's stragglers. Its trying to eke out as much value as you can from the unit.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
The hypothetical 'You fit this many more 25mm bases in range' only applies if you're packing boys in base contact over the entire surrounding area.

I'll admit I'm slightly out of touch with the current game, but I've never seen that happen on the table.

It happens all the time dude. I squeeze as many models (not just Boys) in the area around a KFF Mek as possible. I'd assume every player takes casualties from the models outside of KFF range too if there's stragglers. Its trying to eke out as much value as you can from the unit.

Yeah, that can get dicey. Say for the sake of argument, that they extend the KFF range to 12" to hellt mitigate the bigger bases. If you're still on 25's then that's a buff that "shouldn't" be there..

By the way, there are no rumours of us getting a big mek on the wartrike, right? I hate the idea that the big meks are losing their bikes (even if index is still a thing, but I would assume they are gone in 9th)

PiñaColada wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
The hypothetical 'You fit this many more 25mm bases in range' only applies if you're packing boys in base contact over the entire surrounding area.

I'll admit I'm slightly out of touch with the current game, but I've never seen that happen on the table.

It happens all the time dude. I squeeze as many models (not just Boys) in the area around a KFF Mek as possible. I'd assume every player takes casualties from the models outside of KFF range too if there's stragglers. Its trying to eke out as much value as you can from the unit.

Yeah, that can get dicey. Say for the sake of argument, that they extend the KFF range to 12" to hellt mitigate the bigger bases. If you're still on 25's then that's a buff that "shouldn't" be there..

By the way, there are no rumours of us getting a big mek on the wartrike, right? I hate the idea that the big meks are losing their bikes (even if index is still a thing, but I would assume they are gone in 9th)

They could just change the KFF from being wholly within, to just a single model within (like most auras used to be). If they want to balance it make the aura radius short, so it is still difficult to pack too many units around.

PiñaColada wrote:

Yeah, that can get dicey. Say for the sake of argument, that they extend the KFF range to 12" to hellt mitigate the bigger bases. If you're still on 25's then that's a buff that "shouldn't" be there..

By the way, there are no rumours of us getting a big mek on the wartrike, right? I hate the idea that the big meks are losing their bikes (even if index is still a thing, but I would assume they are gone in 9th)

Yea I suppose base changes are always messy and its just something most armies have to go through at one point or another. It won't be long before its all done and we forget there was ever a problem.

Yea no rumours of Big Mek on Wartrike, it's just the boss. Rumour is that there's no Big Mek on bike either, which I don't really get because surely a Big Mek, whether forced to maintain Bikes for a boss or the boss himself, would surely have a bike over a Boy?

Its made even more bizarre because isn't that new 'Krooldakka' character, the so called speedlord supreme, a Big Mek himself?

Maybe those kits will follow down the line next year?

With the re basing we have a few things to remember:

Recent tournaments have enforced that bases must be on current bases. - doesn't effect me i don't join big tournaments.

New players buying orks or people adding to the collection have to run these orks on larger bases. - this is where the nerf comes in. It's all the new players playing orks for the first time. Therefore, if I fight a new player I will automatically have an advantage as I can fit in a lot more Orks than they can.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

Yeah, that can get dicey. Say for the sake of argument, that they extend the KFF range to 12" to hellt mitigate the bigger bases. If you're still on 25's then that's a buff that "shouldn't" be there..

By the way, there are no rumours of us getting a big mek on the wartrike, right? I hate the idea that the big meks are losing their bikes (even if index is still a thing, but I would assume they are gone in 9th)

Yea I suppose base changes are always messy and its just something most armies have to go through at one point or another. It won't be long before its all done and we forget there was ever a problem.

Yea no rumours of Big Mek on Wartrike, it's just the boss. Rumour is that there's no Big Mek on bike either, which I don't really get because surely a Big Mek, whether forced to maintain Bikes for a boss or the boss himself, would surely have a bike over a Boy?

Its made even more bizarre because isn't that new 'Krooldakka' character, the so called speedlord supreme, a Big Mek himself?

Maybe those kits will follow down the line next year?

Yeah, maybe they'll flesh out the lineup with more kits but the rumoured removal of the big mek on bike upsets me. I never used the painboy on bike so that one I don't really care about personally and the warboss is getting another ride so that doesn't matter but losing the mobile KFF would hurt. I guess I'd care less if we could get a KFF upgrade to the battlewagon where that vehicle produced like an 6" aura or something (or if they changed it so that's how the aura worked if a big mek with KFF is embarked on the vehicle)

Which recent tournaments?

Gw have stated any base is good.

They are bigger than i thought. Must be more durable than the old ork buggies at that size.

 ceorron wrote:

Spoiler:

 aracersss wrote:
new video from bob

They are bigger than i thought. Must be more durable than the old ork buggies at that size.

Man that camera and/or the levels of compression is honestly bad to such a degree it's almost endearing. But yeah, they look a bit beefier than I expected. They'll be around 8-10 wounds depending on the model I guess

rtb02 wrote:
Which recent tournaments?

Gw have stated any base is good.

This will not be decided by GW.

 jhnbrg wrote:

rtb02 wrote:
Which recent tournaments?

Gw have stated any base is good.

This will not be decided by GW.

Yeah, there is a bunch of recent tournaments doing this. Look at the one who told everyone a whole week before the event that everything played must be on current bases.

 lolman1c wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:

rtb02 wrote:
Which recent tournaments?

Gw have stated any base is good.

This will not be decided by GW.

Yeah, there is a bunch of recent tournaments doing this. Look at the one who told everyone a whole week before the event that everything played must be on current bases.

If thats the case looks like i'm never going to a GW tournaments ever again then.



Silly GW.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
Previous rebasings have nit been for horde armies.

I guarantee you that GW is not going to say you "have" to rebase. What non GW events do is up to them. The whole ethos of GW now is about the hobby being easier..... no one in their right mind can claim rebasing scores of Orks is going to be easy.....

I guarantee GW is going to say you have to make all measurements as if the models were on the correct sized bases, tho. Which is a practical impossibility and so a de facto demand to rebase.

“Correct” base is the one it comes with according to GW though, meaning no need to rebase. Not sure how you can “guarantee” GW event will make you measure, for example, 12” + 7mm.

 lolman1c wrote:


Yeah, there is a bunch of recent tournaments doing this. Look at the one who told everyone a whole week before the event that everything played must be on current bases.

It is hardly GW's fault that tournaments make idiotic house rules.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
“Correct” base is the one it comes with according to GW though, meaning no need to rebase. Not sure how you can “guarantee” GW event will make you measure, for example, 12” + 7mm.

Because they do in AoS. There is a document of correct base sizes and you are required to measure that way, which, as I have already said, is impossible in practice and so it is a disguised demand to rebase.

I’m sure some day GW will come out with base extenders and then say you need to use current base measurements. However this isn’t something currently enforced by GW. It’s not even a huge issue in tournaments.

If they ever require rebasing I’ll just buy aftermarket base extenders and a little green stuff and it’s not a huge issue. I won’t be exacto knifing 100+ Boyz.

That said, I checked out Assault Dice - it seems to simplify this process, a LOT.

Do you know if they are ever coming out with an android app? It was slated over a year ago, haven't seen anything about it. Keep checking the store. I can't see being able to use the badmoonz trait + DDD without some sort of app. With the dice on the table it is CLUNKY and time consuming for units like shoota boyz and lootas.

 ceorron wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:

rtb02 wrote:
Which recent tournaments?

Gw have stated any base is good.

This will not be decided by GW.

Yeah, there is a bunch of recent tournaments doing this. Look at the one who told everyone a whole week before the event that everything played must be on current bases.

If thats the case looks like i'm never going to a GW tournaments ever again then.



Silly GW.

No, this was non GW tournaments.

I just noticed FW store does not have the (gigantic) squiggoth is the list at all now,
it looks like they axed it altogether?