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greggles wrote: It's not an auto hit, it generates an additional shot, which you then roll for, thus creating the cycle again. The only thing listed in the DDD is that a DDD can not explode into another DDD.
Ah, went and looked at the rule again. That does seem pretty clunky.
Yup, they could have just said 6s generate 2 hits or given us a flat out BS4+ but they went and fethed it up with all the special rules that they were supposed to be getting away from
gungo wrote: I’m sure some day GW will come out with base extenders and then say you need to use current base measurements. However this isn’t something currently enforced by GW. It’s not even a huge issue in tournaments.
If they ever require rebasing I’ll just buy aftermarket base extenders and a little green stuff and it’s not a huge issue. I won’t be exacto knifing 100+ Boyz.
Base extenders, basing materials, paints and decorations for 250 orks will set you back about £150, not to mention all the extra work trying to make the extenders look like real bases.
Nostromodamus wrote: “Correct” base is the one it comes with according to GW though, meaning no need to rebase. Not sure how you can “guarantee” GW event will make you measure, for example, 12” + 7mm.
Because they do in AoS. There is a document of correct base sizes and you are required to measure that way, which, as I have already said, is impossible in practice and so it is a disguised demand to rebase.
Yeah, there is a bunch of recent tournaments doing this. Look at the one who told everyone a whole week before the event that everything played must be on current bases.
If thats the case looks like i'm never going to a GW tournaments ever again then.
Silly GW.
No, this was non GW tournaments.
Oh, ok then.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nightlord1987 wrote: Find it funny people argue Index options are obsolete but will defend their 25mm bases on Boyz...
So... You only support legacy options that benefit you Eh?
What happens if and when you add a new unit in?
Will you have some on 25s, some on 32s?
Will you downgrade any new kits on 32s with 25s?
Are you modeling for convenience, or modeling FOR ADVANTAGE?
Modelling for whichever is cheapest. The new models will go on the 32s. which will look bad but there you go. Which will make buying new models worse as you know.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/14 14:40:57
Nightlord1987 wrote: Find it funny people argue Index options are obsolete but will defend their 25mm bases on Boyz...
So... You only support legacy options that benefit you Eh?
What happens if and when you add a new unit in?
Will you have some on 25s, some on 32s?
Will you downgrade any new kits on 32s with 25s?
Are you modeling for convenience, or modeling FOR ADVANTAGE?
Or maybe because rebasing 100+ models is a huge pain in the ass, and you could risk breaking them?
I will have a mix of 32s and 25s. Already have it that way for my necrons. I use whatever base the model came with.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 14:51:57
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
mortar_crew wrote: I just noticed FW store does not have the (gigantic) squiggoth is the list at all now,
it looks like they axed it altogether?
They have not had it for years for sale at Forgeworld I have looked to buy it on there several times over the past years and I can say probably atleast 3 years give or take.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 14:55:15
Yeah, there is a bunch of recent tournaments doing this. Look at the one who told everyone a whole week before the event that everything played must be on current bases.
If thats the case looks like i'm never going to a GW tournaments ever again then.
Silly GW.
No, this was non GW tournaments.
Oh, ok then.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nightlord1987 wrote: Find it funny people argue Index options are obsolete but will defend their 25mm bases on Boyz...
So... You only support legacy options that benefit you Eh?
What happens if and when you add a new unit in?
Will you have some on 25s, some on 32s?
Will you downgrade any new kits on 32s with 25s?
Are you modeling for convenience, or modeling FOR ADVANTAGE?
Modelling for whichever is cheapest. The new models will go on the 32s. which will look bad but there you go. Which will make buying new models worse as you know.
Yeah.....I have 250ish Boyz, 30 Lootas, 50 Stormboyz, 45 Kommandos, 20 Tankbustas, 15 Burna Boyz, and at least 40 Nobz.....I DO NOT WANT TO REBASE THESE.
mortar_crew wrote: I just noticed FW store does not have the (gigantic) squiggoth is the list at all now,
it looks like they axed it altogether?
Holy cow! Yeah, it's gone! And they never even put it on last chance... I really hope they do a plastic squiggoth... I've always wanted one but I can't be arsed to get the resin one. XD
mortar_crew wrote: I just noticed FW store does not have the (gigantic) squiggoth is the list at all now,
it looks like they axed it altogether?
They have not had it for years for sale at Forgeworld I have looked to buy it on there several times over the past years and I can say probably atleast 3 years give or take.
I swear they had it recently... I was looking into it like a few months ago and it was there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 15:01:50
Nightlord1987 wrote: Find it funny people argue Index options are obsolete but will defend their 25mm bases on Boyz...
So... You only support legacy options that benefit you Eh?
What happens if and when you add a new unit in?
Will you have some on 25s, some on 32s?
Will you downgrade any new kits on 32s with 25s?
Are you modeling for convenience, or modeling FOR ADVANTAGE?
I'm not rebasing, this is sort of by definition not "modelling for advantage" as there is zero modelling involved, if I was making any adjustment to the bases you could perhaps argue this, but since I'm not, I'm not "modelling" at all, I'm just using the same plastic space dollies I used last week, and the week before.
same as how my CSM are on a mix of bases, because they are on what they came with.
I may be rebasing some WHFB orks, these will get 25mm bases because I want them to fit in with the rest of the army, if someone wants to argue the toss on that thats up to them - I'd either avoid playing them or suggest a different point value and drop that unit
gungo wrote: I’m sure some day GW will come out with base extenders and then say you need to use current base measurements. However this isn’t something currently enforced by GW. It’s not even a huge issue in tournaments.
If they ever require rebasing I’ll just buy aftermarket base extenders and a little green stuff and it’s not a huge issue. I won’t be exacto knifing 100+ Boyz.
Base extenders, basing materials, paints and decorations for 250 orks will set you back about £150, not to mention all the extra work trying to make the extenders look like real bases.
Literally a 30 second search on ebay disproves that rubbish claim. It would take even a novice an afternoon with a pair of rattle cans to glue and paint with a quick dry brush. This is just buying new bases.
You argument is based on the assumption that you have to rebase boyz.
If boyz are still competetive in the new codex i suspect that a rebasing will be enforced by tournaments and casuals alike.
The KFF for example is 50% better (if my math is correct) with 25mm bases not to mention CC.
No the point of my post at all. Englishman hand-waved my entire argument as being based on assumptions and then went on a rant how boyz are nerfed based on another assumption.
But yes, you are probably right on all accounts. Still, the ork army as a whole might turn out to be more powerful even with nerfed boyz. I will not crying over "boyz before toyz" going the way of the dodo.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Nostromodamus wrote: “Correct” base is the one it comes with according to GW though, meaning no need to rebase. Not sure how you can “guarantee” GW event will make you measure, for example, 12” + 7mm.
Because they do in AoS. There is a document of correct base sizes and you are required to measure that way, which, as I have already said, is impossible in practice and so it is a disguised demand to rebase.
Oh my bad, I had no idea such a thing existed.
He's also not being remotely fair. AOS uses repacked fantasy models for more then half the line. You know, models that came on square bases. So he's pretty much by definition making his agument based around square pegs and round holes.
They tied to dodge the poor interaction by using the model itself for measuring. That failed miserably for obvious reasons so they went back to using the bases at which point they had to address the difference in base SHAPE. While doing this it would be silly not to recommend the preferred size.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I mean, being on a 32mm base is not entirely a disadvantage. Board control is one of the most important elements to 40k. Taking up more room around an objective makes things like boyz more annoying not less. Try getting to within 3" of the center of an objective with 30 t4 6++ defskulls sitting on it with those 32mm bases. Greentide definitely took a hit when it comes to maxing out boyz on the table, and this makes shoota boys that much better then they already were, but name me an edition where the pendulum doesn't swing away from what was previously good? It happens sure but more often then not things shift.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 15:26:57
Yeah, if boyz turn out to be really good even on 32's I'm guessing some TOs might be putting restrictions on use of older bases. Lots of people sem to believe they're just getting nerfed though, I guess we'll see how it all pans out in the end.
At what time do we usually get the previews for pre orders? Is it just whenever GW feels like it or does it follow a schedule?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 15:27:38
Yeah, BS4+ is straight better across the board. DDD plus RRall (Tankbusta's), or DDD plus BS4+ may close the distance in certain situations; but...
That said, I checked out Assault Dice - it seems to simplify this process, a LOT.
Add all your dice, roll initial results - pick up 1's and RR (other dice will shift space, but not change facing) - select everything that missed and move them to the cup; the total remaining at the bottom is the number of hits (or just add the top together) - move all hits except 6's to the cup - RR all 6's, RR1's, then add final total hits to previous number.
Typing it out it may seem a bit much; but in the app, it's Roll-Reroll-Cup-Count-Cup-Roll6's again-RR1's-add it all together. 8 steps, and much quicker then actually rolling the dice on the table, and hand sorting (at least in the case of Shoota Boyz 60 shots). That said, rolling buckets of dice is the reason you play Orks... but then again, re-rolling all the 1's, then 6's, then 1's again and counting it all up - it's a lot of work for a minor gain.
But I guess I shouldn't be complaining about any increase to our hits/final damages; Ork shooting needs it.
Hmm I think my way of doing it in Assault Dice is faster:
1- Roll to hit
2- Reroll the 1s
3- Select as many low dice (starting with 1s) as there are 6s and reroll them (these are the additional shots)
4- Reroll the 1s
5- Click on 4, 5 or 6, depending on if you needed 4s, 5s or 6s to hit
6- Roll to wound
There you have it.
The only thing to keep in mind: If you were really unlucky and there was still more 1s than 6s after rerolling the 1s, don't reroll ALL the 1s at step 4. Just those who came from the additional shots of step 3.
PiñaColada wrote: Yeah, if boyz turn out to be really good even on 32's I'm guessing some TOs might be putting restrictions on use of older bases. Lots of people sem to believe they're just getting nerfed though, I guess we'll see how it all pans out in the end.
At what time do we usually get the previews for pre orders? Is it just whenever GW feels like it or does it follow a schedule?
PiñaColada wrote: Yeah, if boyz turn out to be really good even on 32's I'm guessing some TOs might be putting restrictions on use of older bases. Lots of people sem to believe they're just getting nerfed though, I guess we'll see how it all pans out in the end.
At what time do we usually get the previews for pre orders? Is it just whenever GW feels like it or does it follow a schedule?
32mm is noticeably less effective for an assault army (e.g. 25mm allows four ranks etc)
TO are free to do whatever they want, those who may attend are free to decide on this basis as well
same as any player is free to decline to play orks on 25mm if they wish, or decline to paint models painted blue etc
still not re-basing, if GW release new orks on 32mm I'll build them on that, but the stuff thats on 25mm now is staying on it - if that means they get fewer games so be it, highly doubt it will be a problem round here.
keep in mind what TO say, even if they all agree (unlikely) doesn't matter to a lot of players
gungo wrote: I’m sure some day GW will come out with base extenders and then say you need to use current base measurements. However this isn’t something currently enforced by GW. It’s not even a huge issue in tournaments.
If they ever require rebasing I’ll just buy aftermarket base extenders and a little green stuff and it’s not a huge issue. I won’t be exacto knifing 100+ Boyz.
Base extenders, basing materials, paints and decorations for 250 orks will set you back about £150, not to mention all the extra work trying to make the extenders look like real bases.
Literally a 30 second search on ebay disproves that rubbish claim. It would take even a novice an afternoon with a pair of rattle cans to glue and paint with a quick dry brush. This is just buying new bases.
I have seen all of them and to be honest the result will look like gak. If you dont really care how your models look then why dont just use paper cut outs?
If that is the standard of basing you use i dont think you should go around giving advice to other people
Literally a 30 second search on ebay disproves that rubbish claim. It would take even a novice an afternoon with a pair of rattle cans to glue and paint with a quick dry brush. This is just buying new bases.
Though to me this attitude is completely unfair.. (Everyone having different abilities, time available and skill etc).
I will check out these and see.
Price isn’t the biggest factor to me so that’s not too much of an issue.
But anyone with more elaborate bases - that isn’t just and easy afternoon of basing.
Only for those with sand and drybrush, or perhaps a cracked earth or whatnot.
This was the same thing that put me off AoS rebasing. All the people in the forum were quite derogatory towards the basing issue, well several not all.
I agree with you on a lot Red Corsair in general, so no offense meant, just differing opinions..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh also I thought the links were to base extenders which I assume he meant was what was pricey.
I just don’t have the time or heart to pull everything off.
I mean AoS I had horde armies. Then Orks for 40k.
My other armies - Necrons and Marines. Why do all mine get new bases..
Thankfully my Deathguard I hadn’t based any yet.
But my other issue was all my cases had slots designed for 25mm figures.
And I spent lots on my cases and foam, so don’t really want to be investing again.
(This will never be an issue in my gaming group or at the club I go to, so I don’t have to worry.
If I ever started tournament play then I’d see if and when enforced and such)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 15:48:11
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Or maybe because rebasing 100+ models is a huge pain in the ass, and you could risk breaking them?
Cutting off the rim of the base, gluing it on top of 33 mm one, then (and that is really optional step) putting some glue and sand/flock around to match the old part is somehow problematic and risks breaking the mini? How?
And that is without considering various extenders that cost pennies and can be done even over a mountain of models in an afternoon...
Really, I don't get the issue. Defending old, ugly bases leaving parts of miniature hanging and looking bad in general (because, let's not kid ourselves, there is very little space to decorate 25 mm base with anything after gluing model as big as ork on it) only makes sense if A) you're modelling for advantage, or B) maybe (but even that is pretty dubious) if you have some fancy, special resin custom-made bases but again, let's not kid ourselves, the amount of ork armies sporting that can be counted on a fingers of drunk pigdok.
God I really wish Semper was in here to go through the maths with those who for some incredible reason believe that Boys won't be worse on 32s compared to their current bases.
Orks have never struggled with board control, take the insane idea that larger bases for Boys mean greater board control out of your minds. We have grots for board control.
How about the rumoured increase of a point? Does anyone believe that to be a buff?
I'm all for 'Boys before Toys' going away but making Boys a CP tax is not the way to do it.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Or maybe because rebasing 100+ models is a huge pain in the ass, and you could risk breaking them?
Cutting off the rim of the base, gluing it on top of 33 mm one, then (and that is really optional step) putting some glue and sand/flock around to match the old part is somehow problematic and risks breaking the mini? How?
And that is without considering various extenders that cost pennies and can be done even over a mountain of models in an afternoon...
Really, I don't get the issue. Defending old, ugly bases leaving parts of miniature hanging and looking bad in general (because, let's not kid ourselves, there is very little space to decorate 25 mm base with anything after gluing model as big as ork on it) only makes sense if A) you're modelling for advantage, or B) maybe (but even that is pretty dubious) if you have some fancy, special resin custom-made bases but again, let's not kid ourselves, the amount of ork armies sporting that can be counted on a fingers of drunk pigdok.
If you want to spend your day trimming bases for 100+ models, then all the power to you. Some of us actually have stuff to do though.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Or maybe because rebasing 100+ models is a huge pain in the ass, and you could risk breaking them?
Cutting off the rim of the base, gluing it on top of 33 mm one, then (and that is really optional step) putting some glue and sand/flock around to match the old part is somehow problematic and risks breaking the mini? How?
And that is without considering various extenders that cost pennies and can be done even over a mountain of models in an afternoon...
Really, I don't get the issue. Defending old, ugly bases leaving parts of miniature hanging and looking bad in general (because, let's not kid ourselves, there is very little space to decorate 25 mm base with anything after gluing model as big as ork on it) only makes sense if A) you're modelling for advantage, or B) maybe (but even that is pretty dubious) if you have some fancy, special resin custom-made bases but again, let's not kid ourselves, the amount of ork armies sporting that can be counted on a fingers of drunk pigdok.
If you want to spend your day trimming bases for 100+ models, then all the power to you. Some of us actually have stuff to do though.
I can't remember who suggested it but someone posted earlier the easiest way to rebase is to just stick the old base on a new and detail the new one + rim appropriately. It'll make your Boys taller than they should be on their step but I've never had a complaint about modelling for disadvantage...
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Or maybe because rebasing 100+ models is a huge pain in the ass, and you could risk breaking them?
Cutting off the rim of the base, gluing it on top of 33 mm one, then (and that is really optional step) putting some glue and sand/flock around to match the old part is somehow problematic and risks breaking the mini? How?
And that is without considering various extenders that cost pennies and can be done even over a mountain of models in an afternoon...
This is only true if you dont care much about the result or if your bases are pretty lousy to start with. How hard can it be to understand that?
Ah, Orks. We got actual video of the actual models but the discussion still is still continuing on about base sizes, all of which is pure speculation.
As to the models, now that I have seen both sides I can say the only one I don't like is the yellow one. Just too race care to me. If the rules are good I'll have to make some major changes to the model so it will look right. The others all work, though, and an army of them on the table - wow, that will be cool.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 17:36:04
beerbeard wrote: Ah, Orks. We got actual video of the actual models but the discussion still is still continuing on about base sizes, all of which is pure speculation.
As to the models, now that I have seen both sides I can say the only one I don't like is the yellow one. Just too race care to me. If the rules are good I'll have to make some major changes to the model so it will look right. The others all work, though, and an army of them on the table - wow, that will be cool.
Amen, looking forward to making an Ork biker gang with buggies, trucks and bikes galore. Not all of the vehicles are to my tastes but plenty of scope for conversions etc... especially if the rules are nice!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 17:36:32
I have seen all of them and to be honest the result will look like gak. If you dont really care how your models look then why dont just use paper cut outs?
If that is the standard of basing you use i dont think you should go around giving advice to other people
These ones are great though. Easy to use and once you're done, you can't tell them apart from a normal 32mm base. Not that I'd expect anyone to rebase for any other reason that they personally think the models look better that way.
beerbeard wrote: Ah, Orks. We got actual video of the actual models but the discussion still is still continuing on about base sizes, all of which is pure speculation.
As to the models, now that I have seen both sides I can say the only one I don't like is the yellow one. Just too race care to me. If the rules are good I'll have to make some major changes to the model so it will look right. The others all work, though, and an army of them on the table - wow, that will be cool.
It's not pure speculation, their promotional material is showing 32mm based Orks.
It's entirely possible.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 17:37:03
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
~4100
~1660
2000
