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 lolman1c wrote:
I just recreated GWs Speedfreaks list and it only came to 1,570 points (replaced wartike with warboss on bike 90pts and buggies with classic 43pts buggies). I'm a little concerned now... if the stuff went doen in points then how did it end up at 2k points unless each buggy was like 120+ pts each. Unless they maxed top upgrades on everything.

Well okay, so let's try and break this down. If we add up the index prices for the units we already have there, at their absolute minimum cost, it totals up to 972 points.
SAG Big mek -80
10 Boyz -60
10 Boyz -60
10 Boyz -60
3 warbikers -81
3 warbikers -81
5 nobz -85
nob with banner -79
morkanaut -320
trukk -82
trukk -82
trukk -82

We "know" the boyz are going up 1ppm so that bring the list to 1002 points, excluding any of the new units. If we simply translate 1PL to 20points on the other units we'd end up with an additional 800 points. That'd bring the list total to 1802 then. After this it's really tough to calculate the points IMO. We are going to get some point decreases by the looks of it, the trukks for example have to go down a bit and probably quite a few other in the list as well. But then again, basically no-one takes all their units with the most basic gear. The nobz could be almost three time their points if you were for some reason give them all PK's and kombi-skorchas (probably to abuse the PL system). The morkanaut is without the KFF but hopefully the points drop at least enough for that to be "free". The warbikers and boyz would probably all have a PK in each unit

GW themselves state that 99PL comes to about 2000 points but I wouldn't be surprised if that could mean 1750 points either. The point of this very roundabout post is that we can't yet assume that the sky is falling. Too many uncertains still. I had hoped to see another unit or two in there to help signify bigger point drops and/or cheaper buggies but at least the wait is coming to an end.

The only thing I'm getting out of all that is how useless and superfluous power level is.

It is at best confusing and at worst misleading.

 TedNugent wrote:
The only thing I'm getting out of all that is how useless and superfluous power level is.

It is at best confusing and at worst misleading.

It turns out there's an odd little subset of gamers who disdain points and "balance" and all that and "just want to have fun chucking dice/forging the narrative" etc, but also seem to need Official(tm) permission from GW to ignore the rules. Everything you can do with PL you can do with points by simply not enforcing a strict 1:1 ratio between players, but as with "Open Play" it seems like without it being written down in the book a few folk think it's impossible.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
The only thing I'm getting out of all that is how useless and superfluous power level is.

It is at best confusing and at worst misleading.

It turns out there's an odd little subset of gamers who disdain points and "balance" and all that and "just want to have fun chucking dice/forging the narrative" etc, but also seem to need Official(tm) permission from GW to ignore the rules. Everything you can do with PL you can do with points by simply not enforcing a strict 1:1 ratio between players, but as with "Open Play" it seems like without it being written down in the book a few folk think it's impossible.

Can you take that to another thread please?

 TedNugent wrote:
The only thing I'm getting out of all that is how useless and superfluous power level is.

It is at best confusing and at worst misleading.

but in all honesty im all for PL being a thing. im glad its there, we still got points and a chapter approved that will update pts annually so things dont stagnate too much. the PL is there for all those would would rather not obsess about every little thing in their list fitting a 2000pt list and is easier to set up for pickup games (i remember the shoddy math of pickup games back in 7th edition, now its much simpler and quicker, if not as balanced as pts).

PL is an approximate and is additionally a way GW can give us "hints" of what codex stuff will cost. they would never put the actual pt costs in the article from yesterday, but the PL was something they could do.

"balanced as pts".

When you see words balanced and points together without negation(like "points aren't balanced at all") it's lol moment. As if anybody would seriously think any point system would be balanced. They aren't even meant to be and you are misusing points if you are trying to make balanced game out of them.

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
..soo .. all the new vehicles also appear to be on bases ?

Do we think this is a new thing -- it's not required in 8th is it ? -- , just an aesthetic thing or perhaps related to the gameplay of speed freeks ?

The practical reason is probably that it would be a nightmare to figure out which spike or exhaust pike to measure to.

Closest one? That's how 8th ed works.

Once GW eliminates the silly "can't touch this" rule for measuring in combat, measuring to bases rather than hull is all upside.

If you measure base to base then you end up with stompa's that can't hit stuff 1.5" off the ground.

No you don't.

 Jidmah wrote:
If you measure base to base then you end up with stompa's that can't hit stuff 1.5" off the ground.

No you don't.

 jhnbrg wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
The only thing I'm getting out of all that is how useless and superfluous power level is.

It is at best confusing and at worst misleading.

It turns out there's an odd little subset of gamers who disdain points and "balance" and all that and "just want to have fun chucking dice/forging the narrative" etc, but also seem to need Official(tm) permission from GW to ignore the rules. Everything you can do with PL you can do with points by simply not enforcing a strict 1:1 ratio between players, but as with "Open Play" it seems like without it being written down in the book a few folk think it's impossible.

Can you take that to another thread please?

This. All PL vs pts threads end in a toxic flame war. We've had enough of those in this thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Based on how? If enemy base is 1.5" above ground your stompa can't get his within 1" of enemy base and thus can't attack.

As it is gorkanaut struggles to remove models on upper floors as all it can do is shoot with guns.

Check the 8th ed rules one day. Seems you don't know how they work.

No you don't.

The premise was eliminating that rule. You just didn't read the post properly, as usual.

Seems you don't know how to process written information.

edit: Also, please remove the malicious misquote.

 reds8n wrote:
..soo .. all the new vehicles also appear to be on bases ?

Do we think this is a new thing -- it's not required in 8th is it ? -- , just an aesthetic thing or perhaps related to the gameplay of speed freeks ?

The last vehicle they released without a base was....GSC truck? Am I missing any?

Plagueburst Crawler has no base either.

It’s a good a time as any to remind everyone that Rule Number One around here is Be Polite. Thanks!

I'm just patiently awaiting today's article.

 TedNugent wrote:
I'm just patiently awaiting today's article.

I know the feeling. Gotta be some stuff today...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/19/18th-oct-ork-vehicles-through-da-agesgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-3/

Just a charming stroll through memory lane

PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/19/18th-oct-ork-vehicles-through-da-agesgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-3/

Just a charming stroll through memory lane

they omitted this little chestnut


edit: oh no they diiiidnt


The biggest and most impressive vehicle of this era was the Space Ork Battlewagon. Released as a plastic kit in Orktober 1990, it’s packed with detail, including loads of crew and hangers-on. Notably, the back of the box included banner designs for all six of the Ork Clans, using the same iconography they each use today, nearly 30 years later

The second edition of Warhammer 40,000 launched with a boxed game that included an Ork Dreadnought! Well, sort of… it was actually a cardboard cut-out that the greenskins could use to bolster their forces.

Boy oh boy looks like a slow news day from Games Workshop. Were some ork-based 40k youtuber to release a tasty rules leak, I'd probably have to do what I did the last few times that happened and log on to an alternate Youtube account, like all his videos and leave them playing through my google speaker on mute for 24 hours.

That's actually a cool idea to thank youtubers. I'm going to steal that.

I know this is going back into the PL vs points argument, I apologize. Wasn't it stated that PL is the median between cheapest option and most expensive? Therefore we could see points drops for most units also since they could have upgrades we don't know about yet that are factored in.

I'm waiting to see pics of the Mek Shop (I hope it makes good Necromunda terrain.) Was that something that was actually confirmed, or a mere rumour?

mhalko1 wrote:
I know this is going back into the PL vs points argument, I apologize. Wasn't it stated that PL is the median between cheapest option and most expensive? Therefore we could see points drops for most units also since they could have upgrades we don't know about yet that are factored in.

I'm not sure about the median thing, they said that PL is somewhere between minimal and maximum cost. However, especially nobz seem to be paying a lot of PL for options you'd never give them - usually because you simply don't have models that have both a close combat weapon and a kombi-shoota. It's a safe bet that not a whole lot of thought as gone into the PL seen in the index, but all codices seem to be roughly following the 1 PL = 20 points rule, with most load-outs that you cannot build from the box being axed and thus driving max points possible down.

 Crimson wrote:
I'm waiting to see pics of the Mek Shop (I hope it makes good Necromunda terrain.) Was that something that was actually confirmed, or a mere rumour?

rumor as far as i believe. because it came with the rumor of the primork ghazghkull that if is true has been kept well under wrap.

 Crimson wrote:
I'm waiting to see pics of the Mek Shop (I hope it makes good Necromunda terrain.) Was that something that was actually confirmed, or a mere rumour?

As of now there is just one rumor mentioning it - but that rumors seems to be fully confirmed otherwise though.

It's possible that playtesters didn't get to test it though - neither the eldar nor the knight terrain seems be have been playtested by anyone

the_scotsman wrote:
Boy oh boy looks like a slow news day from Games Workshop. Were some ork-based 40k youtuber to release a tasty rules leak, I'd probably have to do what I did the last few times that happened and log on to an alternate Youtube account, like all his videos and leave them playing through my google speaker on mute for 24 hours.

But whos giving those leaks to those youtubers if not GW themselves? This doesn't look like genuine leaks like Rogue Trader or the Necron Codex, but """""leaks"""" to hype up the community.
Why GW chose to give us this information this way instead of news in their site... I suppose is because people feels more... like they are accessing something illegal, that they shouldn't know, and thats exciting.

 Galas wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Boy oh boy looks like a slow news day from Games Workshop. Were some ork-based 40k youtuber to release a tasty rules leak, I'd probably have to do what I did the last few times that happened and log on to an alternate Youtube account, like all his videos and leave them playing through my google speaker on mute for 24 hours.

But whos giving those leaks to those youtubers if not GW themselves? This doesn't look like genuine leaks like Rogue Trader or the Necron Codex, but """""leaks"""" to hype up the community.
Why GW chose to give us this information this way instead of news in their site... I suppose is because people feels more... like they are accessing something illegal, that they shouldn't know, and thats exciting.

Yeah couldn't agree more. Some of these have been genuine leaks though. Anything before "Orktober" was probably a real leak, except maybe just before.

I believe the Speed Freeks boxed was genuinely leaked.

It's unlikely GW give out points costs for a full 2k army list worth of units in a brief preview.

An added benefit, of course, of knowing the Power Level of the different units is that we can figure out exactly how much of what we want to deepstrike in using that rumoured stratagem (should it be true of course). They've also used it so we can get a vague idea of what's gone down/up in price from index to codex without giving everything away.

Painting up my big mek in mega armour with kff (I made one myself out of an Ork head, spare KFF and marine armour) as I'm terrified that the mek won't have a kff. XD Still kinda hyped though to paint up buggies and stuff.

Do all of the buggies come with the 1-3 squad size rule?

mhalko1 wrote:
Do all of the buggies come with the 1-3 squad size rule?

All the ones we've seen so far.

Not a stretch to assume they will.